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My argument against stat dampening in PvP for corrupted players.
Adaegus Wintermight
Member
Although not always "fair", ganking creates community.
People talk about the bullies who pick on defenseless newbies but, more importantly, they have fond memories of those who came to save them. It takes away from a server to have such heavy-handed punishments for an integral part of the MMO experience.
The solution to ganking in Ashes of Creation shouldn't be "Ganker loses stats progressively the more they kill until they can no longer deal damage.". It diminishes the achievement of killing the corrupted player if he's already severely weakened. What's the fun in 1 shotting someone who's hyped up to be this big scary bandit? Like Illidan himself said the hunter is nothing without the hunt.
The considerable loss of items/crafting materials they already are subject to is punishment enough. It should, and kind of already does, fall into the hands of the victim's friends/guild/bounty hunters/node in which he is a citizen to save him.
I believe they should eschew the system that benefits the single player, and harms PvPers for one that is amicable to both. Which would simply be don't reduce the stats of a corrupted player. That way the the bounty hunter can feel good about saving civilians and the corrupted player doesn't just flee/log off after murdering several low level players, now that there is incentive for them to stay knowing they will have a fair fight against the bounty hunter.
In short, the PvP stat dampening that comes with corruption is too harsh of a punishment. I fear bounty hunter's won't exist if the mechanic remains in game. What are your thoughts?
People talk about the bullies who pick on defenseless newbies but, more importantly, they have fond memories of those who came to save them. It takes away from a server to have such heavy-handed punishments for an integral part of the MMO experience.
The solution to ganking in Ashes of Creation shouldn't be "Ganker loses stats progressively the more they kill until they can no longer deal damage.". It diminishes the achievement of killing the corrupted player if he's already severely weakened. What's the fun in 1 shotting someone who's hyped up to be this big scary bandit? Like Illidan himself said the hunter is nothing without the hunt.
The considerable loss of items/crafting materials they already are subject to is punishment enough. It should, and kind of already does, fall into the hands of the victim's friends/guild/bounty hunters/node in which he is a citizen to save him.
I believe they should eschew the system that benefits the single player, and harms PvPers for one that is amicable to both. Which would simply be don't reduce the stats of a corrupted player. That way the the bounty hunter can feel good about saving civilians and the corrupted player doesn't just flee/log off after murdering several low level players, now that there is incentive for them to stay knowing they will have a fair fight against the bounty hunter.
In short, the PvP stat dampening that comes with corruption is too harsh of a punishment. I fear bounty hunter's won't exist if the mechanic remains in game. What are your thoughts?
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Comments
Even with the strongest gear in the game a 40% reduction to stats would totally render a player useless in 1 on 1 PvP. Plus I don't think a guild would be so heinous to gear someone up just to terrorize lowbies and then subsequently lose all the gear they gave them to bounty hunters and said lowbies. I HOPE there's no guilds like that.
They'll be quite happy with that. The Bounty Hunter system is just another way to reduce your preferred playstyle of griefing other players. They're not going to go back on that now.
There was a time when that was true, but it isn't any longer. To help you guys understand where I'm coming from I spend a lot of time on Classic WoW, and often times members of my faction will post in city or other public chat channels requesting help from high level players camping low level players.
One of my favorite things to do is get some friends and turn the tide back on the gankers. It's fun and engaging and you start seeing the same people again. It builds community.
My fear is that when I arrive on the scene as a bounty hunter the assailant will have either fled the scene or will put up no challenge. It's no fun to be a bounty hunter if my target can't do any damage to me. Maybe I overestimate how hard the stat dampening will be, but still. I don't want it to be easy.
The stat damp ensures that the one being griefed can eventually fight back and win if the two are left to their own devices long enough. It won’t make one red kill debilitating.
Exactly. There's no better feeling than finding a bully and giving him a taste of his own medicine! And the fight should be epic right?
Idk about you guys but I'd like to beat a bully on fair terms 1 on 1, unlike the way he was doing other people dirty. It feels good to not need an advantage over someone to beat them. Now that's worth talking about.
I suppose that's fair. As much as I would like to see a situation like that end with the bounty hunter always beating the ganker and making friends with the victims I suppose it is a bit unrealistic to expect people to be on call 24/7 waiting to save people.
This is another thing I feel strongly about. I'm thinking maybe having several "guard outposts" by a node, potentially, and allowing players to freely assist or interrupt in the operations held there, so you can sort of meddle or assist certain factions/cities without needing to resort to all out node sieging.
As it stands I don't think many people will freely flag for PvP, which does upset me. I fear that id players arn't given more options to fight freely more may resort to just ganking.
Once again I know it's not always fair but you can't deny that it's true. It does! People remember names. A fair number of people who have played Mmo's before have probably heard the name Angwe and have never even played on the same server as him.
And more now than ever, in Ashes of Creation with the bounty hunter system, the next Angwe won't be alone. There will be a force of direct opposition. A reverse Angwe that hunts and camps gankers. The system has the potential to be legendary.
If a lvl 50 player always gank lvl 50 players, he should not have his stats altered.
If a lvl 50 players ganks 10 lvl 20 players, then his stats would be lowered to a lvl 20 player, so he joins the group he loves to spawn-camp.
If a lvl 50 player ganks 5 level 20 players and 5 level 40 players, he is altered down to a level 30 player
And so on.
With this, players can both achieve legendary status as a PK'er at max level, if he are honorable and sticks to his level, and a lvl 50(20) player will just be laughed at.
I like that! Those are good ideas. Less drastic punishment if the fight is fair, more drastic pinishment if the fight is unfair.
That's an interesting idea. I think I'd be upset if I rode out to a place to dispense some justice to a crook just to have him pray for a second and be completely absolved of corruption and return to green flag.
because its a punishment not a type of game play so the reverse is also true
Because they were being Ganked...and I'm high too....*Puff*
*Edit* Broke my toe. Doctor's Script...loser...hahahaha
*Kidding* I digress
But its important to prevent spawn camping, so adjusting the players level closer and closer to the ones he is camping is a good punishment imo. Only problem now, is that low level players may grief high level players by jumping in the way. So my best solution to it was to give a bit of a headroom. The PK'er only gets reduced stats and level if he repeatedly PK low level people - thus an average between X kills, that maybe triggers at X kills or something. Making the number a hardcoded number may make people want to grief X times a day just for fun. So if its a hard 5, then people will have 4 free shots each day. But if its between 1 and 10, its harder to justify "free ganks".
Losing gear items and other inventory items upon death is the way to go.
Decreasing combat stats might make it IMPOSSIBLE to burn corruption points and regain green status without dying.
I see no other reason for this extra punishment other than toxic carebearism which was promoted by recent mmos "fight only when you feel like, even though mmos are supposed to be a living world game".
I dont plan to PK without reason because I dont want to lose my gear, but if I cant burn my corruption due to decreased stats, I will be FORCED to let somebody that bothered me escape with their lives.
Testing will tell. I hope decreased combat stats for reds take noticable effect after 3 kills at a time.
Good news on that front! Non-forced attacks (such as AoE) will not hit non-combatant players. Green players will not be able to grief high level characters unless they have been murdered by said player quite a few times already.
I'm used to try and find advantages. And if AoE (Action combat) is toggleable, and it becomes norm that guilds who randomly hit each other in open PvP utilize this, why wouldn't I ask a portion of my guild to spend this precious time to position them selves while the rest of the battle is flagged? As Green they can just pass by the other guild, and attack them at will since they would be flagged?
Sorry, this is off-topic though. I brought it up in another thread.
People who pks won't stay long killing the same person just because they think it's fun. They usually need a reason or what to feel "powerful". Like in classic wow, know one really pks before the honor system was in place, once they got rewards from killing others they had a reason to do it.
People who wants to feel powerful won't get the same satisfaction after killing the same person 3-4 times, so they will move on and try to find someone else.
I can also promise you that a lot of people will work as a bounty hunter 24/7 if there is some kind of rewards for it.
So to me the star dampening is just a solution to a problem that won't even exist. Yes people will get killed multiple times, but that corrupted player will die from a bounty hunter soon after. (If he get something out if it)
No apologies necessary I love talking PvP!
Good thing the corrupted don't have a stat dampening when fighting Bounty Hunters who are their natural enemies.
Thanks for the info! This is good news! I wish that was on the AoC wiki, that would have saved me time writing up an argument ^^. Do you know if stat dampening is in effect while fighting combatants? I know it also doesn't take effect on PvE targets.
Past experiece, pk`d plenty of time and with purpose, never for sport and alwyas with clan backing / support.
To me the Pk`ing depends on the why..