Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
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Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
My feedback and concerns for developers.
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Comments
You understand me more, and I am happy for it. I just want to be understood. It would really help if the terminology I was using was understood.
People who grow up in NA experience racism. People that come from other countries where there is no racism are generally confused when they come to America and experience it. It's confusing and painful. I expect when things like intergenerational trauma and racism are discussed we are going to see the eggshells everywhere and I don't think there would be a pair of shoes not covered in that white garbage. I'm really not calling anyone a Racist, but I completely understand how sensitive people feel when those topics are brought up.
Before anyone writes back to me can you please reread what you write and try to go easy on me. I'm really not trying to fight. Or private message. I duno, this sucks right now. Just want to learn about the game and be among friends.
Usually my worries on this is that to have a respectful representation means additional money because you can't just hire PoC or native people because they might not have the necessary knowledge for such.
We also know that you can't hire a white person to talk about this because people won't like it.
So... does this mean that every game needs to have, I don't know, antropologist/sociologist analyzing the game and its story to find out if representation is ok?
Having good intentions is not enough, and if you don't hire people who have such knowledge, it will go wrong.
Intentions don't matter, if you do it wrong you do it wrong.
I believe it is - in a way - violence as well to force game devs / the community to walk on eggshells OR ELSE, just in case they make a small mistake that someone somewhere does not like. Remember that there's a lot of artistic points of view in games that have nothing to do with politics or minority groups of people. This is an MMO, it is a fantasy setting in a video game. A vast world with all sorts of people playing in it. Let's not bring real life politics into it. Thanks. Otherwise we'll be discussing every sad event in the world's history, and how they give game devs ulterior motives just because someone spotted a connection somewhere. I am not from the US, but am aware of the big political discussions there, and follow the left vs. right yelling contest. I do not want to see it happen in the one place where I go to relax and get away from a world full of people yelling at each other and demanding justice for whatever.
Also, as for the original post; my wife is a pin-up model (because she wants to be) and we take it very seriously.
Then talk about the game and learn about the game. Bringing racism and other political issues into the game conversation is pointless and causes a lot of emotionally driven toxicity from whoever talks about it. I don't care if you can compare the plight of x race to x game race, there is no underlying threat to your safety, your being or otherwise. Let the game designers build a living breathing world and just like real life that will entail a clash between races, cultures, and cause bitterness/resentment between sides. The game is telling a story, sit along for the ride and get angry at characters, actions, and such. Don't blame the game developer if an orc hates dwarves or vice versa.
Also, stop this pity party you are throwing for yourself because people disagree with you. Stand by your beliefs and accept others even if they disagree with you, they are people too. No one here is out to get you, no one cares who you are behind that screen. We are here to have fun talking about the game and what we would like to do in it, so feel free to do the same.
Quite honestly, we have been.
You want the game to represent women in a way that standard women can compare without feeling
objectified or having a unrealistic expectation of perfection being placed on them.
That is totally relatable and I can get behind that. Ashes currently did so and I say thats a good thing.
But please dont forget that women also like to dress up sometimes and that should also be represented.
I know that that could be taken with a grain of salt because I am a man, but its the truth.
I have several female friends who all like to sometimes transmog into the sluttiest outfits ever, because its fun.
AND THATS WHAT ITS ABOUT: FUN!
Concerning your "Tauren are all indigenous people and should not be objectified as such" nonesense.
Yes, Tauren were created with indigenous american designs, but they had none of the associated background story.
There may be some similarities. But everything has similarities with the real world because thats where developers draw inspiration from.
WoW also tortured other characters and abused them mentally, physically and emotionally in the past.
I didnt hear you mention them...
You are reading too much into the scene tbh, Baine was fine in the end and he was not singled out for being a Tauren.
He is a attacking warloeader and fought against his enemy. He also got stomped and thrown off a cliff. None of that had to do with him being Tauren.
You are crying about inside jokes and got into your headspace that everything has to be a homage to real world problems.
I am also a minority where I live and I never had any problem with these things in games.
GAMES ARE NOT THE REAL WORLD AND REAL WORLD PROBLEMS SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION WHILE PLAYING A GAME.
GAMES ARE THERE TO HAVE FUN IN AND NOT TO BE COMPARED WITH THE REAL WORLD, YOU SHOULD NOT BE FEELING ATTACKED BECAUSE A WALKING COW PERSON GOT DROPPED OF A CLIFF ONLY BECAUSE IT HAS A COMPARABLE DESIGN PHYLOSOPHY AS OTHER REAL WORLD GROUPS.
And, the only way to have a hope of making change is to use the proper terms and discuss the concerns.
25+ years ago, I was discussing lack of representation in video games with a Irani high school friend of mine. She said, 'But, you know, you can see yourself (African Americans) on billboards. I cannot see myself on billboards."
I realized she was right. At that time, in the US, media would sometimes feature African Americans to ameliorate concerns about diversity, but it was rare to see Latinos, Asians, Polynesians, Native Americans, Indians, Middle Easterns, etc as primary protagonists in films, on TV, on billboards or in books.
And, I realized that when I wrote Fantasy and Sci-fi stories I most often had white, European/American protagonists. Every once in a while I might have an African/American protagonist. Because that is the tradition and I didn't really think about changing the tradition or what impact that might have on any potential audience.
And that is the moment that I understood that creators have a responsibility to make conscious choices about representation in mass entertainment, the lack of representation and the impact on US society...because otherwise we just perpetuate the status quo from 50+ years ago when racial segregation, degradation, appropriation and stereotyping was the norm.
No one should be feeling any stress from being told, "Hey, your game has no female heroes in it. I'm a female and I don't like being forced to play male heroes in this massively multiplayer game." In 2020/2021 that's pretty much the same for any other "minority". In 2020/2021, game devs should not be feeling any stress from being told they need to include non-European ethnic features among the hero options in character creation and that non-European cultures and characters of color should not be stuck with portrayals as primitive, savage, uncivilized, of low intelligence, bestial and/or evil. In 2020/2021, game devs should be figuring out how to include non-binary and non-cis pronouns - just as they should be contemplating how to positively represent women as well as men. And, if there are romances in the game, there should be a variety of options besides just heterosexual romances (Baldur's Gate 3 also does that fairly well, I think, much to my surprise).
My office just had sexual harassment training a few weeks ago. I feel no stress keeping my hands to myself.
25 years ago, when women informed me that it is degrading for men to call women girls, I adjusted my behavior and stopped referring to women as girls. That did not cause me stress.
15 years ago, when I worked at The Black AIDS Institute, I over heard a trans person referring to trans people as trannies. I picked up that terminology, but was later told that it's offensive for cis people to call trans people trannies. So, I made the adjustment. That did not cause stress.
Equal respect should not cause stress. And should not be hindering job performance.