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Rust and Streamers

maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
Beginning of December, streamers were having a hard time trying to play Rust because snipers zerg in PvP.
Recently, OTV set up a private server for streamers only and the game has exploded in popularity.

Is it a bad idea to have a streamers only server?

Other benefits:
  • Less streamers on other servers, because if streamers play on a different server they are consenting to being stream sniped.
  • Opportunities for streamers to set up collaborative content/events in the one server.
  • Major publicity centralized in one server.
  • easier to manage the ebb and flow of streamers coming and going from a server.
  • Streamers don't have a hoard of their audience giving them every item in the game.
I wish I were deep and tragic
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Comments

  • JamationJamation Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    For the type of world this MMO is supposed to be a streamer only server sounds horrible. Unless a streamer makes this their primary game, most of the games they play phase in and out in popularity. Certain games would work for streamers only, such as Rust, due to the type of game it is. An MMO, not so much.

    Streamers of course will have problems with snipers and such, they usually do. However, due to the mechanics put in place to try to limit zerging, as well as how respawning should work it'll make the task a bit more difficult. There will probably be unofficial "Streamer servers" as people come to realize which big names play on which servers

    However, the population of streamers/content creators, the duration they usually stick with one game/ need to play, and how the world is supposed to adapt and grow would cause their server to be dead, not fun, and unfulfilling. Although there will of course be dumb/annoying people who think they're clever for trolling, the systems put in place should help at least limit griefing.
  • So they made an easy mode server for streamers, with safe spaces. I am curious as to how the recent explosion in twitch popularity has translated into Rust sales.
  • i wouldn't mind dedicated streamer server at all.

    Getting Streamers off the regular servers is a win:win for e erybody
  • Im okay with it, I dont like watching streamers claiming that people are trash when they do better then they would.
  • KhronusKhronus Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I honestly cannot stand streamers. Personally, it's really sad that there are so many people donating money to these people which causes streaming to be a reality in the first place. If they didn't have so many zombies tuned in, they wouldn't do it.

    Streamer only server would be great because I would never log into it and all those fans could just pony around on there. Zergs will be a massive issue in AOC if they don't get it under control before launch. It would be a damn shame to watch this game die in 3 months after waiting this long.
  • A streamer server would not work, but if intrepid had the time and resources to do it I believe some anonymous tools could help. A streamer mode if you will that let's you obscure your name and cosmetics with a dark cloak cosmetic or something like that.
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    Commissioned at https://fiverr.com/ravenjuu
  • WarthWarth Member
    edited January 2021
    Sathrago wrote: »
    A streamer server would not work, but if intrepid had the time and resources to do it I believe some anonymous tools could help. A streamer mode if you will that let's you obscure your name and cosmetics with a dark cloak cosmetic or something like that.

    Why wouldn't it? Usually you want to bring a reasoning, not just a blank statement.
  • SathragoSathrago Member
    edited January 2021
    Warth wrote: »
    Sathrago wrote: »
    A streamer server would not work, but if intrepid had the time and resources to do it I believe some anonymous tools could help. A streamer mode if you will that let's you obscure your name and cosmetics with a dark cloak cosmetic or something like that.

    Why wouldn't it? Usually you want to bring a reasoning, not just a blank statement.

    The simple and obvious answer is that you cannot populate the world enough on a streamer only server. Next is how do you even differentiate between a streamer and a non streamer? Subs? Popularity? What if I just lie and say I'm a streamer? Sounds like a lot of wasted effort to go through due to the lack of players that would even be on the server.

    Unless they opened the server up to anyone with the understanding that alot of streamers will play there it will not work.
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    I cant see a reason to do this.

    If someone chooses to stream their gameplay, then other players sniping them is just a consequence that they need to accept.

    They can, of course, just not stream.
  • @Sathrago thank you.
    Obviously a Streamer only server would never reach the capacity it would need to sustain itself. I thought that much was implied. There is pretty much 3 levels of streamer dedicated servers.

    1. those that only allow streamers and tgeur close friends.As you have realized correctly, that wouldn't work.

    2. those that are on an "invite only" basis, where streaner cn procude the access to the server to thrir communities. Which can work but would rely on self and group organization of streamers. Tools supporting such an idea would already be in place through the server pre-registration services intrepid is going to offer.

    3. Dedicated Server that are open to join, but declared to be the home server of certain streamers. Essentially, what will happen either way, just with official backing and information distribution by Intrepid.

    Content Creators can either be a great help for the success of the game or a unwanted blight, that a large part of the community doesn't want to interact with. Either way, they are a considerable factor a game developer has to account for. Closing your eyes and joping for the best will never be an appropriate solution.

    I think that open transparity or even the support of content creation focused server will have great benefits not only for the streamers and their community, but also those that want to avoid them and the game itself.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Warth wrote: »
    Content Creators can either be a great help for the success of the game or a unwanted blight, that a large part of the community doesn't want to interact with.
    I wouldn't just lump all content creators together like that, it isn't fair on those that put the effort in to try to be informative.

    In my experience, MMO streamers can be broken down in to two groups - those that put the game first, and those that out the stream first.

    The streamers that put the game first are people that are simply streaming the game they want to play. These streamers always seem to have a smaller audience, but they - and their fans - often stick around in an MMO for years. Due to the smaller nature of their audience, there is no real need for special consideration to prevent stream sniping or such.

    Then you have the streamers that out the stream first. The game is there as the content that the stream happens to be about. These people tend to have much bigger audiences, but the streamers tend to not stay put in a game for long - and as such, neither does their audience.

    I should add with the above that while this is how I have seen things, I don't make a habit of paying much attention to streamers. I simpq1see the point of watching a stream of someone playing a game when I could instead be playing the game.
  • ariatrasariatras Member, Founder
    Rust is simply that type of game.

    I am summarily against such special treatment. Streamers are already ahead on the picking order, they're essentially a marketing tool. Which is fine, I'll take any footage I can get. In games like Rust, it sucks, because that is a core tenet of the game.

    Now the problem rust had. Streamers play games for income. If they cannot properly stream a game (due to being dead half the time) They'll have to do something else. At least in streaming hours. Translating in less hype/interest in Rust in this case. The response was to give them their own servers. Which in a way is fine, in another way it is bad. If I watch a stream now, to get some raw footage to see if the game is for me, the experience they have will be vastly different to mine. I do have to content with a'holes.

    The game is not comparable with the games I am interested in.

    RPGs
    Strategy
    MMOs
    Building/economic sims

    Though I do enjoy games like 7 days to die. You can choose to go on a PvP server or not.

    Anyway, it doesn't work for MMORPGs
    Streamer(s) will go to a server play it a while, and move on. Often times with their audience. Leaving a server barren. I for one will try and avoid servers holding streamers.
    l8im8pj8upjq.gif


  • Khronus wrote: »
    I honestly cannot stand streamers. Personally, it's really sad that there are so many people donating money to these people which causes streaming to be a reality in the first place. If they didn't have so many zombies tuned in, they wouldn't do it.

    Why would people rather watch someone else playing games, than play it themselves?! I just don't get it...
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • WarthWarth Member
    edited January 2021
    @daveywavey why would you think its an either/or situation?

    Most time you spent in an mmo, you don't need to spend much attention on the task at hand. Watching a streamer a and playing an MMO goes hand in hand.

    Some people listen to music, some watch a series while playing others watch a streamer. It isn't any different at all.
  • I am of the opinion that it's setting a false pretense for people who are genuinely interesting in playing the game.

    I've played Rust since it's inception and have always said that Rust isn't a game you stream, simply due to the fact you will get stream sniped, which is a handicap in an already unrelenting game that I would rather not deal with. Rust is a game that's is highly dependent on information which incentivizes stream sniping. Sure, a 15 minute delay will help when you roam around the map but your base location and the base's layout are always sought after. There are tricks some streamers use like block the map or going to black screen when in base but these are tiring to keep up.

    This type of gameplay can only exist on a server with padded walls and strict no griefing rules. Currently the Rust devs haven't given server owners the tools they need to tailor their servers for this type of game play but after OTV I'm sure they will make it a priority.

    I just can't help but feel bad for the little noobs that will buy the game and then log into the first official server they see, get get absolutely annihilated off the server then never try it again.

    Now when it comes to MMO's I don't feel the same way about streaming. The only time I think stream sniping would be prevalent in an MMO is if say your clan/guild is getting ready to go siege/raid, or if your currently at war with another clan/guild. Other than that, all information gained from watching a player's stream is unhelpful when it comes to trying to greif the streamer.
  • maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I thought you could do something like:
    • Streamers must link their twitch/(other streaming platform) account to their Intrepid account to prove they are streamers - this should also provide info on viewer counts etc. Only active streamers are granted access to this server.
    • The streamers can purchase keys to the streamer server, that can be distributed to their mods/communities in giveaways/competitions etc. These keys are only active while the streamer's subscription to AoC is active.

    But yeah, I can see how you might only have a few hundred people on a single server.

    I don't think we'll see the sales stats for Rust until 22nd January (I assume it's updated monthly). But it's interesting to note that the spike in viewership has only had a minor impact on concurrent players as seen here:
    Rust-Concurrent-Players-Chart.png

    So it's unlikely that sales were impacted much.

    Interesting to compare this to their influence on Among Us, where the impact was obvious:
    Among-Us-Concurrent-Players-Chart.png

    Why the difference? Price?
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • Warth wrote: »
    @daveywavey why would you think its an either/or situation?

    Most time you spent in an mmo, you don't need to spend much attention on the task at hand. Watching a streamer a and playing an MMO goes hand in hand.

    Some people listen to music, some watch a series while playing others watch a streamer. It isn't any different at all.

    Fair dos. Myself, I'd rather put that extra attention to the game, but whatever works for people! :)
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • maouw wrote: »
    I thought you could do something like:
    • Streamers must link their twitch/(other streaming platform) account to their Intrepid account to prove they are streamers - this should also provide info on viewer counts etc. Only active streamers are granted access to this server.
    • The streamers can purchase keys to the streamer server, that can be distributed to their mods/communities in giveaways/competitions etc. These keys are only active while the streamer's subscription to AoC is active.

    But yeah, I can see how you might only have a few hundred people on a single server.

    I don't think we'll see the sales stats for Rust until 22nd January (I assume it's updated monthly). But it's interesting to note that the spike in viewership has only had a minor impact on concurrent players as seen here:
    Rust-Concurrent-Players-Chart.png

    So it's unlikely that sales were impacted much.

    Interesting to compare this to their influence on Among Us, where the impact was obvious:
    Among-Us-Concurrent-Players-Chart.png

    Why the difference? Price?

    Rust was already established.People that like that style of game already knew about it and probably purchased it in the past.

    Barely anybody knew about Among us beforehand. @maouw

    also the scaling on these graphs is kinda misleading. Rust did indeed receive a significant boost in concurrently playing users.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    maouw wrote: »

    Why the difference? Price?

    The difference, imo, is twofold. First, stream viewers know that picking up a game like Rust is a somewhat substantial time commitment. Second, most people have heard of Rust for a long time, but Streamers were the first many people ever heard about Among Us.

    This added up to people looking at Among Us for the first time when they saw it streamed, seeing that it was a fun little game that required literally no commitment other than purchase price -which is low - and so made the decision to go for it.

    People don't usually make such spur of the moment decisions in relation to MMO's.
  • KhronusKhronus Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Khronus wrote: »
    I honestly cannot stand streamers. Personally, it's really sad that there are so many people donating money to these people which causes streaming to be a reality in the first place. If they didn't have so many zombies tuned in, they wouldn't do it.

    Why would people rather watch someone else playing games, than play it themselves?! I just don't get it...

    For real though. We have people who just tune in like it's TV and then just donate money to be seen on the stream. It's sad.

    @Warth This is going to come off a bit harsh but please don't take it too hard. Your idea of how an MMO is played is complete garbage. Music is a different story as it focuses you depending on the music. Watching tv or a streamer while playing though? Come on lol. I guess I am glad though. You'll be dead and I will be on my way back home with your gatherables.
  • maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited January 2021
    @Khronus
    Watching streamers while playing an MMO is absolutely something that people do, because there's a lot of down time in MMOs

    I've seen multiple people watch movies while playing games, they aren't completely focused on either and it's not efficient but people 100% do this.
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • ErdunErdun Member
    edited January 2021
    I think a dedicate server to streamers is a very good idea, the streamer can only stream on that server and if they want to get items from their viewrs or gold or any other help can only be on that server.

    I think is stupid when streamers like asmogold for example get help for their viewrs. And come on where is the fun in a mmorpg when your ants followers get you money or items or mounts or any other help? it's not bad to get a help but in this case (the exanple I put) they just ruin most part of the motivation for get any succes.
  • WarthWarth Member
    edited January 2021
    @Khronus

    not harsh at all. But feel free to tell me in which of the currently popular MMOs you are under constant threat of dying and wouldn't be able do watch a movie while playing?

    It certainly isn't WoW FFXiV ESO GW2 or BDO RS or Eve. Downtine is plentiful in those.

    Gathering, farming, solo grinding, traveling, achievement hunting, waiting for other players, socializing, leveling an alt,, waiting in queue, leveling life skills, most quests...

    All these activities eat up a major part of the time you spent in mmos and none of them take a whole lot of focus to do successfully.
  • In previous years, yours truly wouldn't have supported this; Today's online culture makes this a VERY good idea!

    Streamers have supporters and fans that are dying for attention or focus from the streamers, and typically try to support the steamer's actions en-masse. If we could get all of these on a single server, then yours truly feels it would be beneficial to both the server population AND to the streamers and their fans:

    = The streamers are on a server where they can actively oppose eachother, providing both additional content in clashing with/against eachother, and to congregate the steamers' followers in a single location.

    = People such as yours truly that aren't fans of streamers can then make the conscious choice to stay away from the streamers' lime-light.

    I'm not suggesting to make such a server exclusive - it'd just be nice if there was one designated ahead of time where the devs would *like* to have streamers gather and wheren they can (at least it feels like it) dominate their server, with their followers.
  • BluehBlueh Member, Pioneer, Kickstarter
    edited January 2021
    Like who cares? if the game is well designed a dude with a huge following wont affect u its just another grp on the server fighting for power. There are enough streamer haters here just make a guild and oppose them if u want. 99.99% of the time in an mmo you wont be affected at all. And if the streamer are good at the game with a huge guild/alliance just be the rebel and fight the empire. Being the underdog is always the way to go anyway.

    Also the "they get free stuff makes me sad crowd" most big guilds have GMs wich get "free" stuff and live of guild items. Also they getting stuff do not affect you in a anyway whatsoever if u missed the stream where they got free stuff you would not even know it happend since nothing changes for you.
  • In previous years, yours truly wouldn't have supported this; Today's online culture makes this a VERY good idea!

    Streamers have supporters and fans that are dying for attention or focus from the streamers, and typically try to support the steamer's actions en-masse. If we could get all of these on a single server, then yours truly feels it would be beneficial to both the server population AND to the streamers and their fans:

    = The streamers are on a server where they can actively oppose eachother, providing both additional content in clashing with/against eachother, and to congregate the steamers' followers in a single location.

    = People such as yours truly that aren't fans of streamers can then make the conscious choice to stay away from the streamers' lime-light.

    I'm not suggesting to make such a server exclusive - it'd just be nice if there was one designated ahead of time where the devs would *like* to have streamers gather and wheren they can (at least it feels like it) dominate their server, with their followers.

    @Tyranthraxus completely agreeing with everything you said here.
    An official coordination from the side of Intrepid would benefit everyone involved.

    @Blueh I'm not part of the crowd that gets sad about streamers getting free stuff. I don't mind that. Since i'm from EU huge streamers are a rarity on my servers either way. However, thinking that being on the server of a major streamer won't affect you is delusional. There is several problems attached to major streamers joining your server. Just look at the release of WoW Classic, some major streamers brought more than 3k players onto their server with them, which was just one example of many. We have seen similar behaviours in past game releases as well. Even worse, if the streamer is just a tourist and leaves the server half empty once he isn't interested in the game anymore after a couple of weeks.
  • So you want to force streamers to play on a specific server? Is that it?
  • What if a previously non-streamer decides to start streaming? Would they have to change servers (which isn't currently allowed)? I don't know that there would be any way to 'police' making streamers all use one server.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    daveywavey wrote: »
    What if a previously non-streamer decides to start streaming? Would they have to change servers (which isn't currently allowed)? I don't know that there would be any way to 'police' making streamers all use one server.

    There wouldn't be any way to enforce it, one of the two reasons this idea is a non-starter.
  • @phdmonster
    @daveywavey

    forcing? No. That doesn't work.
    Encouraging/Supporting the accumulation of streamers and their audiences on certain servers yes.
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