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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
I didnt play SWG, but that sounds awesome!
https://knightsofember.com/forums/members/winner909098.54
It is easy to pick up and manage, with its own skills to craft. You can "easily" mindlessly craft basic stuff, but if you want HQ items then it can be truly challenging, and almost puzzle like.
Here is an beginner's guide:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=vlLzhgaU3U4
I am not sure if I prefer the HQ craft to give it the base stats and the Low Quality, a penalised stat; or if I prefer the idea of the HQ being the best stats possible on the item, while LQ is the lower base.
Perhaps adding certain reagents will help decide what those stats will come out looking like, focusing on one stat, stat group etc.
I’d like to see a system that has a set template for raw materials, but you get to plug in which types for each material go into the item... and additional variants such as shape, sockets and maker’s mark can be available to higher level crafters.
Example: Small Dagger
Requires the following components:
- 1 metal ingots
- 1 leather strip
- 1 metal rivet
- Blade shape (req level 3 crafting & “discovered shapes”)
- Socket 1 (req level 5 crafting)
- Socket 2 (req level 30 crafting)
- Add maker’s mark (yes/no)
With the raw materials “slots” you would place the desired component, whether it be simple or rare material, which would impact the stats of the crafted item. So using copper vs steel for the blade would change stats significantly. Copper might be better for a caster focused dagger with specified enchantments or socketed gems planned, but steel might be better for a standard fighter.
The “shape” of the blade would be somewhat cosmetic or racially thematic, but could have impact on stats as well. It would be neat to be able to disassemble other items in the game to “learn” their construction for use in your own crafting.
Deciding whether or not to include your Maker’s Mark would be a way to hide your funding of a rival’s war effort or to proudly display on your node’s guards.
I think you nailed the system I would like. I'm not huge into crafting in FFXIV 'cause I never needed to.
But that minigame aspect and your extra elements would make for some really interesting crafting and with a lot of possible outcomes for the same base weapon.
Don't forget you'll probably craft for much more people in AoC than in FFXIV because players can't master every artisan path here (which is a good thing).
I do not mind complex crafting systems but you have to be able to set a goal. Nothing worse than gathering for weeks to then have the item break during its upgrade phase.
Crafting from SWG is what Ashes should use as an example with some tweaking here and there.
Yes, this.
Thank you for explaining this system so well so people that didn't get to experience it can understand why we talk about it in such a loving manner.
I lived it and I remember the feeling of accomplishment and pride that i felt as a crafter in this realms system. I have never quite felt the same since that games crafting system.
Nothing i have seen since, in any MMO has moved me to be the best I could be, try as hard as I did, and feel as much accomplishment and pride in my work and my reputation as SWG crafting and resource harvesting system did.
I truly hope that the Ashes development team experienced this as well so they can implement some of the magic it had.
-Mr. Sam Walton
Anyway, I myself can't see any benefits of having a durability system - this only annoys players and doesn't add anything imo.
Thats exactly how I would want it.
https://knightsofember.com/forums/members/winner909098.54
I would have to disagree quite intently with saying a durability ( or decay ) system has no benefits. The entire point of having a durability/decay system is to force players to come back and need to purchase new armor/weapons or any other craft-able items.
With out durability aka decay the game would eventually grow into a point where the top level players who have been playing for quite some time would hardly ever have to rely on crafters for anything. This would in turn make the crafting economy of the game take a huge hit.
It also directly effects those in the game who wish to go and hunt the monsters down for those rare components used in crafting that can only come from monsters. When crafters sales start to tank so will the sales of those combat characters wishing to sell their looted wares. If crafters are not selling items at a steady pace they have no need to purchase anything other than the very best of looted components and only so often.
Durability is a very very important mechanic required to keep the circle of commerce going strong in a MMO where the entire world is dependent on one another for the items they need.
P.S. I will write up a post myself later about the crafting system of SWG as well. I am still currently playing SWG Pre-cu on an emulator. So I have active first hand knowledge of the crafting system so many of us loved. I can also provide screenshots of materials/weapons/armor etc.
Maybe allow other crafters of the same profession to repair the items as well but the original crafter can give it a bonus when they do it possibly? That would encourage people to build relationships with their artisans and seek them out more.
For instance if someone has a sword that is half durability any blacksmith profession could repair it but if they took it to the original creator to be repaired maybe that item gets a +10 to damage for a week because of that artisans intimate knowledge of the creation of the item?
The idea is rough but it sounds cool.
-Mr. Sam Walton
The image above is for a copper resource harvested from a planet. Copper is the main resource, after that there are different subsets of copper which all have specific names. This specific type of copper is called "Conductive Borcarbitic Copper". There are many other types of copper that can spawn and are required for different kinds of crafts in many of the other crafting professions on the game. You'll also see all the stats that spawn on this resource, most resources can go as low as 1 - 1000 in stats in each of those categories. Keep in mind there are other resources like Steel, Iron, Aluminum, Polymer, Fiberplast, Vegetable Tubers, Fruits, Wheats, Flowers etc. Each with it's main type like "copper" and then several different types of subtypes.
In the link above is a picture of what is known as a "Krayt Dragon Tissue" It is a rare looted component used to enhance the speed and max damage of several type of ranged weapons. Using this as an example it has 3 stats. Stack size, Attack Speed and Max Damage. The stack size can range from 1 - 13 ( unless it receives a special roll like exceptional or legendary loot which can increase the stack size up to 18 ) Then we have the attack speed which on a non special tissue can range from 0 to -2.0 After that is the max damage, this can range from 30 points up to 264 points.
These tissues are put into a sub component of the ranged weapons called "Advanced Blaster Power Handler" Now you don't need a tissue to make these handlers, however you do need it to make it have a high damage enhancement too it.
Different stack sizes are required to be able to enhance different weapons. For example many pistols can be made from stack sizes of 1 - 4. However, most rifles require at least a stack size of 6 all the way up to 11 to be able to enhance a single rifle.
In a game where you have limited characters that a player can create this gives the crafters and combat players a reason to interact and buy/sell items to each other. It's not a one sided the crafter sells to the combat toon style system.
In the link above, you'll see a picture of a T21 rifle, this would be the best high end rifle in the game. In the picture you'll see what kind of sub components and resources it takes to create.
In the picture above you'll once again see the T21 rifle, however this time you will see which stats are important and how they are weighed to increase the stats of the weapon. Those stats that you see are the stats you need to look out for in high numbers on the harvested resources from the planets. Like the copper picture above.
In the link above, you will see the first window for crafting a DLT20 rifle. You'll see the different spots where resources go into as well as the sub components. Where you see the green bars, that is a visual box showing you how good or bad the resources you are using to craft the weapon are. Red would mean they are bad and Green means they are good.
In the link above, you'll see the next step in crafting the rifle, where you spend your experience points. There are 4 different categories that you can experiment into with the points you have. I am a maxed out Weaponsmith which gives me 13 points to spend in those areas. Each box takes 1 point to experiment into.
The four categories on this weapon are as follows, Damage, which raises the min and maximum damage of the weapon as well as lowers the speed on it. ( the lower the speed the faster the weapon shoots.)
Next is efficiency, this effects the cost of using the combat classes special abilities. In SWG you have a Health/Action/Mind bar so weapons have a health/action/mind cost to using the classes special abilities.
Next is the range modifier, this is essentially the accuracy bonus of the weapon. In SWG there are 3 different accuracy bonuses on ranged weapons. Pointblank, Ideal and Max range.
Finally the last area for experimentation is the durability. This of course effects the overall condition the weapon has when it's created. This is part of the decay system in the game.
In the link above, you'll find the final weapon that I crafted and it showing all of it's stats that it contains.
In the three links above, you will see the 3 different sub components I had to use to create the rifle that I crafted to use as an example in this forum post.
Now these are just the things requires to create this one ranged weapon. There are thousands of craft-able items in SWG that have the same style of creation. Where the harvested resources have stats that matter, which stats that matter on the resource depend on what item it is you are intending to craft them into. Like for the rifle example, conductivity and overall quality are the two stats that matter most on the resources you need to use to make it.
This system is the most in-depth crafting system I've ever experience in a game. It's also the most rewarding and most fun I've ever had with a crafting system in a game. If the crafting system in Ashes is even half as complex and enjoyable as the one in SWG I will be a happy person. I understand some people want to see a crafting system that is easy and basic, however I think you'll find most of us die hard crafters which would be the ones to stick it out for the long haul would prefer the complex systems that allow a lot of verity and sense of accomplishment when you've finally created something amazing.
I hope this helps those of you who did not play SWG understand just a little bit about the system that so many players talk about and say they loved! Including myself!
Though I'd throw in an edit so people can also see how the basic crafting profession is Artisan in the link below.
Also the picture of the skill boxes required to become a Master Weaponsmith in the link below.
UI - New World by far. Clean, modern, clear
Sounds - New World by far, very impressive crafting sounds to go with animations
Animation - ESO, BDO
Enchantment system - Lineage 2, New World micro enchant system
High Tier Crafting - the difficulty of Kingdom Come Deliverance - made manual to separate the bulk crafters from the dedicated ones and create scarcity
I’d classify the “needs” as:
1. NPC Upkeep: Repeatable quests (daily/weekly/monthly) sorts of supply requests to maintain upkeep for different node sizes might make sense. Outfitting guards, shops, tributes to higher tier nodes, etc. This could be for finished products (swords, armor, arrows) or crafted components (nails, rivers, ingots, etc).
2. Player Driven: dependent upon item durability and player economy. Stocking up player run shops, auction houses and direct requests. I think it would be great if shops had an inventory of completed items but people could also post a request for something to be crafted, then the shop would be able to fulfill that request. Money would have to be deposited, with a set “duration” to fulfill the order, then the crafter could focus on making items people wanted and not potentially waste materials. Failure to fulfill an order would simply return the deposit. Perhaps certain deposits could include money and resources.
Really hope we see something along these lines. Not a fan of the super easy meaningless crafting systems in some games.
Thank you for sharing ! Correct me if I’m wrong but it seems that gathering is far more important than crafting in your example. If you ignore the quality of resources variable this crafting system looks like « Add components, choose your stats and push a button to finish your craft». Of course it’s nice to be able to influence stats in crafts but I don’t get how this is in-depth crafting. Again, correct me if I misunderstood something.
A question though : As a gatherer what do you do with low quality ressources ? Do they have any utility in the game ?
Hey, the resource gathering is just the first step in the crafting process. Of course needing those resources with the correct high stat values in the right areas is a big part of it.
However, after you do have the best resources you can currently collect or buy the craft then has to spend quite a bit of time with the assembly and experimentation of the sub components for the items. When making an item it has an assembly roll ( sadly this is RNG essentially but in SWG your chances can be boosted by food/drink ). There is a chance to have a critical failure, a success, a great success and then an amazing success. Normally this part of assembly and experimentation sets apart the hardcore craft and the mediocre ones in game. The hardcore crafter will want the Amazing success on assembly and then again when experimenting into which ever stats that sub component has on it.
The hardcore crafter in SWG will spend the 2 hours it takes to get the perfect assembly/exp on the sub component needed for something which might only give it an extra stat or two in certain items. When doing a final craft on something like an enhanced weapon you don't get the ability to keep going until you have amazing on the assembly and exp though. Since the enhanced use the rare looted components it's a one and day craft and you've got to hope for the best on RNG.
As to your question about grind quality resources, those are used a lot for grinding the professions out and there are even some items in game where stats on resources don't matter at all so those get used to mass produce items like that as well.
I think crafting (and processing) should depend on your skill level in that task.
The issue then is how much effort do Intrepid want to put into these minigames; will they all look the same or have different interfaces representing the task?
If the community had to vote to wait another six months for a better crafting interface, would they? I think the majority would vote to get the game released ASAP.
I hate crafting systems that have a random chance to spit in your face. Want to make a cool thing, spent lots of effort gathering resources, finally got it all together? Aaaand it's gone.
Want to improve your weapon a little more, investing your time, money and resources once more to push it slightly further? Aaaand it's gone.
I do not want crafting to feel like gambling, ever.
EVER.
That kind of stuff is something that would make me want to actively avoid the game entirely. Cool raids, fun combat mechanics, excellent writing? Don't care, crafting is awful.
Type 1 "Money by another name" - is too simple and offers no immersion
Type 2 "Find the Recipe" - I'm not keen on this because my crafting skill level seems irrelevant if I haven't found the recipe yet. Recipes should drop into my collection as my skill grows. Maybe the most Legendary gear requires a one use recipe that must be found.
Type 3 "Guess and see what sticks" - mostly pointless as recipes are being tested by so many that the results will be posted online.
Type 4 "Made to order Customizaton" - I like the idea that an experienced crafter could TRADE OFF abilities, with caps on how much (eg. +2% attack speed with -2% damage). I think it would need to be a MASTER crafter to get a net benefit on abilities (eg. +5% attack speed with -3% damage).
Type 5 "Anything is possible" - I think there needs to be limits. Only experienced and master crafters should get a degree of flexibility to deviate from known recipes.
I think, from what I've seen, the RNG element of crafting is only for those that want to push for an end result that is beyond their skill level. At that point you can take a risk/reward decision.
If you don't want any RNG risk, then don't try to push beyond your skill.
I find it boring when every crafter can do everything. It takes away the need to interact with other players. That's why recipes are actually a good thing. They can be sold and traded too.
Alternatively why not have skill trees for every crafter profession where we would learn recipes based where we spend skill points. So no weapon smith could craft every weapon for example.