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The Flaw in the flagging system

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Comments

  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    That's what it's all about!

    EVERYBODY!!!
    "Dooooooo the hokey cokeeey....."
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • MerekMerek Member
    akabear wrote: »
    Whilst there might be a relative safety from the pk system by participating within caravan fights, I can see that very action escalating conflict to potential fights of recompense be that one on one, clan vs clan or even node vs node.
    The caravan system, as it stands currently, sounds very themepark-ey. A caravan should just happen, I shouldn't need to flag-on for the event or whatever. Making too many normal day to day tasks "events" ruins them. But again, we'll see...
  • JamationJamation Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Merek wrote: »
    The caravan system, as it stands currently, sounds very themepark-ey. A caravan should just happen, I shouldn't need to flag-on for the event or whatever. Making too many normal day to day tasks "events" ruins them. But again, we'll see...

    I think this is more of a programming thing/issue considering if you didn't flag for attack/defend your skills could be hurting the side you actually meant to help. It's like a temporary party without manually making a party in a way.
    And there may be a few event caravans, but for the most part caravans aren't really "events" to begin with, they're just players shipping large quantities of goods from one location to another. So I think it will happen fairly organically.
  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I would have thought that if certain player or players lose their caravan cargo during transportation, then perhaps they might get a little upset at the financial loss and therefore might consider retribution towards those that interfered with the transportation at a later time, be that pk or clan war out side the safe pvp enabled conflict around the caravan..

    That is just me, or is there no loss to the to those delivering?
  • NightlyNightly Member
    akabear wrote: »
    I would have thought that if certain player or players lose their caravan cargo during transportation, then perhaps they might get a little upset at the financial loss and therefore might consider retribution towards those that interfered with the transportation at a later time, be that pk or clan war out side the safe pvp enabled conflict around the caravan..

    That is just me, or is there no loss to the to those delivering?

    They do lose a portion of the goods if they lose the fight
  • unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Nightly wrote: »
    akabear wrote: »
    I would have thought that if certain player or players lose their caravan cargo during transportation, then perhaps they might get a little upset at the financial loss and therefore might consider retribution towards those that interfered with the transportation at a later time, be that pk or clan war out side the safe pvp enabled conflict around the caravan..

    That is just me, or is there no loss to the to those delivering?

    They do lose a portion of the goods if they lose the fight

    And the defenders lose potential rewards for a successful escort, even if they had no "financial" stake in the creation of the caravan.
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  • McMackMuckMcMackMuck Member
    Elo wrote: »
    Just my opinion as someone with very little pvp experience: I like the concept of karma. I know that if someone kills me red vs green, I will immediately run from the respawn, wait for him to be at reduced hp, then exact righteous vengeance as green vs red. I guess that's what karma bombing must mean.

    I would even prefer the karma system to go further. Let's say someone kills me red vs green. Then when I see him a month later and attack green vs green, then I would like if we both automatically become purple (forced purple on him), so if I killed him then no corruption would be given to me for righting the previous wrong. At that point we would be even, so the next fight would cause corruption. It's just a thought and opinion, I guess it may over-complicate the system. I just worry that under the current system, when I see him a month later and get righteous vengeance. If I turn red, the people standing around will assume I am the bad guy.

    Again, I am pve raider. Consider me the pvp novice who stepped into the pvp adult discussion. :)

    When I first read it I really liked the idea. Then I thought about it for a while. There's a difference between "Justice" and "Vengeance". Justice is the EXP debt that is earned by a corrupted player, along with the chance of dropping gear for repeat offenders. Vengeance is what you are talking about.

    Maybe the "Justice" should also include some kind of repayment to you for your losses if the corrupted is killed by a bounty hunter. As to what a "fair" repayment would be, who knows. Maybe part of the Bounty Hunter's job after cashing the bounty certificate is to deliver a Cert to your node storage containing a percentage of the gatherables you lost, with the Bounty hunter gaining some EXP for their efforts?
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  • NightlyNightly Member
    unknownsystemerror wrote: »
    Nightly wrote: »
    akabear wrote: »
    I would have thought that if certain player or players lose their caravan cargo during transportation, then perhaps they might get a little upset at the financial loss and therefore might consider retribution towards those that interfered with the transportation at a later time, be that pk or clan war out side the safe pvp enabled conflict around the caravan..

    That is just me, or is there no loss to the to those delivering?

    They do lose a portion of the goods if they lose the fight

    And the defenders lose potential rewards for a successful escort, even if they had no "financial" stake in the creation of the caravan.

    working as intended?
  • insomniainsomnia Member
    Yet another post from someone that dosen't want to get punished for PvP, or attacking someone that dosen't want to be attacked. If you don't want to risk the punishment, don't PvP.
    How about we wait and see how the system actualy work. The game is in early alpha
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    insomnia wrote: »
    Yet another post from someone that dosen't want to get punished for PvP, or attacking someone that dosen't want to be attacked. If you don't want to risk the punishment, don't PvP.
    How about we wait and see how the system actualy work. The game is in early alpha

    We’re not even in the actual alpha testing stage yet. We are doing “aloha previews”, what Intrepid considers true alpha testing will start April 6. But yeah, it’s extremely early.
     
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  • VirulentVirulent Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    This game is not for you, if you don't like a core feature of it. It's not changing.
  • Frostshot1Frostshot1 Member
    Maybe it has been answered clearly somewhere, but i haven't seen or heard it. What are the conditions under which you will lose items when you die? Is it every time you die, every time you die to a player combatant? Do the same rules apply to loot loss if you chose not to fight back? i.e. un-flagged. Or only if you flag to defend yourself? I know they said corrupted players have a chance to drop completed gear. So I'm guessing that means just other goods are subject to loss unless corrupted. Lots of ??? still on this obviously.
  • WarthWarth Member, Alpha Two
    edited February 2021
    @Frostshot

    Gear is only droppable when corrupted.
    Ressources, Certificates and Materials will be dropped every time you die, no matter how you die or what your flagging state is.

    Which amount hasn't been determined yet, however, unflagged players will lose the basic amount, combatants (flagged players) will lose half the amount unflagged players drop and corrupted lose 4x as much as unflagged players.

    If i had to guess, i'd expect it to be somewhere around these value:
    - 20-25% of ressources, certs and materials for unflagged players.
    - 10-12,5% for flagged players
    - 80-100% for corrupted players.

    The values are pure speculation on my end though.
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Frostshot wrote: »
    Maybe it has been answered clearly somewhere, but i haven't seen or heard it. What are the conditions under which you will lose items when you die? Is it every time you die, every time you die to a player combatant? Do the same rules apply to loot loss if you chose not to fight back? i.e. un-flagged. Or only if you flag to defend yourself? I know they said corrupted players have a chance to drop completed gear. So I'm guessing that means just other goods are subject to loss unless corrupted. Lots of ??? still on this obviously.

    Half way down.

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_corruption
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • Frostshot1Frostshot1 Member
    Thanks for the info, very helpful. Seems like the penalty for being afk and dying is worse than someone who fought back. Seems a little harsh considering there is no fast travel available if something were to come up IRL. Having kids occasionally demands fleeing the keyboard at haste.

    This is good however "Death penalties do not apply to objective-based events (such as caravans, guild wars, and node sieges" Hopefully arena or battle grounds, if there are any, would have similar circumstances. Or dropping specific event credits of some sort.
  • AsgerrAsgerr Member, Alpha Two
    Frostshot wrote: »
    Thanks for the info, very helpful. Seems like the penalty for being afk and dying is worse than someone who fought back. Seems a little harsh considering there is no fast travel available if something were to come up IRL. Having kids occasionally demands fleeing the keyboard at haste.

    I would always hope that someone trying to PK for any reason, would have at least enough brain to stop attacking once they saw their target wasn't fighting back. Be it AFK or not, I would think to myself, "Ok this person is just trying to get me corrupt", and leave them be.

    Perhaps this could somehow lead to people strongly goading others into attacking first or fighting back to avoid the penalty.
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  • Frostshot1Frostshot1 Member
    Yeah I remember one time, way way back in Vanilla WoW when a horde shamen was running around standing on low level toons out in front of Iron forge. And my friend made the mistake of clicking on him. Auto attacked and the shamen proceeded to corpse camp him until the flag finally wore off.
  • SathragoSathrago Member, Alpha Two
    Frostshot wrote: »
    Yeah I remember one time, way way back in Vanilla WoW when a horde shamen was running around standing on low level toons out in front of Iron forge. And my friend made the mistake of clicking on him. Auto attacked and the shamen proceeded to corpse camp him until the flag finally wore off.

    Good times.
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