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What About Solo Players?

SixxSixx Member
edited March 2021 in General Discussion
Hello There, During All this Time Seein' The Progress of Ashes Of Creation, i'm worried About The Solo Player Thing,
i think is great To Be Able To Do A Lot Of Things With Your Guild And Things Like That, But... What About That (Solo Players)
That May Want To Be Unique , something like Solo Leveling Or Solo PvP Or doing Things That Can Make Your Name Be Known By Other Players Without BEing Involved In A Guild Or Team, i was Always Looking For That Kind of MMO Where You Can Be That Solo Player able To Do Things Without being in a Team.
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Comments

  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    There are a ton of games like this.
    GW2 WOW FFXIV you can log in a never say anything to anyone hit max level and do most of the game.
    Fortunately Steven and most here agree this is supposed to be and MMO heavy on the multiplayer aspect.
    That said there will still be some solo play stuff. Personally I hope it is minimal.
    No such thing as a solo player raid. That is nothing more then you killing a named mob. Not impressed.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • OstaffOstaff Member
    edited March 2021
    MMO as Lazy Peon so fabulously stated is for MASSIVE Multiplayer play, not solo play. Go play Dark Souls, Pillars of Eternity or some such game that is geared for Solo and not a MMO which is ment by conception to be for massive player interaction.
  • ariatrasariatras Member, Founder
    It's called an RPG, try those. Crimson Desert I hear is very single player-y
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  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Ostaff wrote: »
    MMO as Lazy Peon so fabulously stated is for MASSIVE Multiplayer play, not solo play. Go play Dark Souls, Pillars of Eternity or some such game that is geared for Solo and not a MMO which is ment by conception to be for massive player interaction.

    odd I'm playing Pillars of Eternity right now :D
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • TLDR; Look into ways to promote meaningful social bonding for pick-up group interactions and don't overlook the actual solo play experience as it is a large part of the casual player experience which virtually every player will find himself doing at some point in his playing career, be it voluntarily or involuntarily.

    I don't think this should be brushed off so easily. Solo play is a very valuable aspect of the game because as easy it is to tell someone off for inquiring seriously about it, undoubtedly you've all had moments in MMO's where despite making friends and joining guilds there are moments when you just seem to be online when none of your pals are. This may just be for 5 or 10 minutes, which you could use to catch up some quick artisan skilling or whatever, but for some it may even take up 50% of their playtime or more.

    There's also the question of how you view solo play itself? Is playing with a pick-up group considered solo? Some would only consider their known buddies and allies to be the true multiplayer and see pick-up players as glorified NPCs, which, unfortunately in some cases would actually be a proper description. If not only for the fact that the natural potential for coordination with actual friends is way higher than with random pick-up players.

    In any case I believe that the viability of solo play in terms of both character progression and fun is to be taken serious as it significantly affects the player's will to log in to the game despite knowing that his regular friends are not there to play with him. Especially in games where certain classes were essential members of group compositions I recall that many players did not even bother to play the game unless they knew all the group members would be present.

    To combat this I think the game should facilitate pug grouping in a way that it promotes actually working together and making durable connections. These two do not always go hand in hand as in games like Guild Wars 2 or Warhammer Online for instance people would indeed be enticed to play 'with' other players, but in reality would never really bother to socially interact with them in any meaningful way because the encounters were so swift and numerous that there simply was no need to interact in order to be successful and move on. So while this was technically a multiplayer encounter, in effect, the allied players might as well have been NPCs after all.

    On the other hand I believe there should be ways for solo players to actually be relatively impactful in the world and in terms of character progression as a solo player. Of course there will be several options with crafting and perhaps node building and questing in mind, but for some, solo play might even be a desired path as they intend to venture out as a stray lone wolf vowing to stay Corrupted for as long as possible.

    At the end of the day I believe there will be plenty of options, simply from the way the game's design is intended, for solo players to find their desired playstyle and still progress meaningfully.

    That said, I believe there should be seriously invested in the mechanics that allow the types of players who perhaps start off without not knowing anyone but desire to make friends do so in a natural manner. It's actually counter intuitive, but the more grindy a game is, the easier it was to make friends simply because chatting with each other and getting to know each other was a good way to overcome the grindiness of the game itself. Counterintuitive positive effects such as these should not be overlooked in my opinion.



  • PatsoldPatsold Member
    edited March 2021
    there is a way,

    a rogue whit so mutch skill, that he can solo 1vs2 karavan fights
    Dont forget.. They Balance the grp PvP not the class. So there are ways that some classes are stronger in solo plays.

    Maby other ways. We need to See but.. Yea this game is a Team game.
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Moderator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Thread moved from Community Creations to General Discussion.
    volunteer_moderator.gif
  • VmanGmanVmanGman Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    There will be things for solo players to do, but it is a MMORPG after all and grouping will be very beneficial and open up new avenues.
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Solo play will be viable to a point but even the crafting system requires team work.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • WhitneyHagasMatsumotoWhitneyHagasMatsumoto Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    If the definition of a solo player is "not belonging to a guild or team," then I think there is plenty of room for fun.

    It's like being a sole proprietor, mastering a skill and increasing your own social value! ;)

    But even then, you'll need to connect with large guilds and lots of players as customers. If you can tolerate that, solo players will get an exciting experience, and you'll develop social skills that translate to the real world!

    I believe that the positive interaction between the game experience and the real world experience is what makes MMOs so great. <3

  • I agree.
    If the definition of a solo player is "not belonging to a guild or team," then I think there is plenty of room for fun.

    The interdependence of artisan professions and the citizenship system assures solo-type players a way to experience the game without having to find and belong to a guild.

    The Dark Alliance is building the Tulnar Civilization on our server!

    [NA] [18+] - We need EVERYONE!


    If you want in, send me a message!
  • Massively multiplayer only means lots and lots of players being online in the same persistent world at the same time and being able to interact with each other. It has little to do with the level of interdependence between the players.

    If a character can solo anything it means the players are overpowered vs the game world. Low dependence on others.
    If a character can't do anything without being grouped with others it means the players are underpowered vs the game world. High dependence on others.
    If a character can accomplish some elements on his own but the cooperation with others is required for other tasks or challenges it means the game world offers activities of various difficulty level. The dependence on others depends on what you want to do.

    Ideally there should always be a level of interdependence between the players. No one player should be able to craft every item on his own. No one players should be able to build a town on his own. No one player should be able to go to the deepest dungeon and defeat the demon king on his own. Anyone interested in that level of power would be, indeed, better served in a single player game.

    At the same time, characters need to have a certain level of independence. If you can't fight off a mob on your own it also mean you can barely travel on your own. Crafting should call upon many different resources, true, but I don't see anyone asking for a smith to be grouped with a bellow operator and an assistant when hammering a piece of metal and depending on dedicated blade polishers, sharpeners or anything within that kind of realism. People expect the smith character to perform all these, most likely in only one operation.

    Group play will always be more efficient, but solo play will always have it's place too. It's not as if every players did only one or the other, most will dabble in both type of play. Everyone may have a preference, but anyone dedicated to only one type is an exception, not the norm.
    Be bold. Be brave. Roll a Tulnar !
  • Percimes wrote: »
    Crafting should call upon many different resources, true, but I don't see anyone asking for a smith to be grouped with a bellow operator and an assistant when hammering a piece of metal and depending on dedicated blade polishers, sharpeners or anything within that kind of realism. People expect the smith character to perform all these, most likely in only one operation.

    Actually, crafting should also be a group effort. Where a person should be able to craft a low-end weapon by themselves, but in order to get a masterpiece, they should need to rely on other professional crafters to give it to them. Ie. A swordsman can make a nice sword, but with the aid of an artisan they can make a beautiful sword and with the aid of an enchanter they can make a magical sword both of which surpass the dull quality of sword that a single crafter can make alone.
  • PercimesPercimes Member
    edited March 2021
    Actually, that's what I meant by many different resources. ;)

    edit: I should have added professions for clarity.
    Be bold. Be brave. Roll a Tulnar !
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    edited March 2021
    Dont take everything said here to drive you away if you like solo play. Games like this always have classes that will solo better then others. Just like some classes shine better in group content. If you are mindful of what class you pick, you will find lots of things you can do solo.

    That being said, being an open world PvP game. You will want to pick a class that can flee well or do well 1v1 or 1v2. I am sure Summoner will have a few subclasses that will solo well. Same with the Rogue but who knows what other gems we will find.

    In games like this you just need to remember its designed for teaming but that does not mean if you are smart you cant figure out ways to find content you can do solo. I have yet to play any MMO that I could not find ways to play solo when I wanted too.
  • VolgaireVolgaire Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I doubt it will be possible to complete all the content solo as this is a multiplayer game, who knows maybe there will be enough to keep a solo player engaged fully.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    In any game. If you can find a way to play outside of the intended playstyle that you enjoy. That is perfectly fine so long as it is not an exploit.

    You should never be catered to for doing so though.
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    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • WarthWarth Member
    Well, its pretty simple, no? There is:
    1. Solo sized content
    2. Duo-to 4 man sized content
    3. Group Sized Content
    4. Raid Sized Content
    5. Massiv sized content

    Strict solo players will be able to do content from the first any maybe the second category, but will be at a disadvantage at everything they do. That doesn't mean its impossible nor that it can't keep you engaged.
    Ultimatively, you'll have to decide for yourself whether the game has enough content you can do solo to keep you engaged long term. Just be fully aware, that the game isn't designed around solo players the same way BDO or BnS is. Neither does it provide many of the tools (lfg/lfr for example) that enable solo players to partcipate in most of the content without actually being socially active.
  • TalentsTalents Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited March 2021
    Sixx wrote: »
    Hello There, During All this Time Seein' The Progress of Ashes Of Creation, i'm worried About The Solo Player Thing,
    i think is great To Be Able To Do A Lot Of Things With Your Guild And Things Like That, But... What About That (Solo Players)
    That May Want To Be Unique , something like Solo Leveling Or Solo PvP Or doing Things That Can Make Your Name Be Known By Other Players Without BEing Involved In A Guild Or Team, i was Always Looking For That Kind of MMO Where You Can Be That Solo Player able To Do Things Without being in a Team.

    If you want an MMO where you can literally solo 95+% of the game, then just play OSRS. The only content that you can't really solo is Raids 2. Ashes won't be a game that you can solo.
    nI17Ea4.png
  • Solo play will be viable to a point but even the crafting system requires team work.

    Well said.

    Pet classes with ranged dps + gathering focus. That's probably the furthest "to a point." Get out and see the world.

    Stealth based high crit pvp is good for solo players too.

    The Dark Alliance is building the Tulnar Civilization on our server!

    [NA] [18+] - We need EVERYONE!


    If you want in, send me a message!
  • Undead CanuckUndead Canuck Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    If you play as a Necromancer, you are never playing solo. Best of both worlds!
  • PinkchinsPinkchins Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    There are a ton of games like this.
    GW2 WOW FFXIV you can log in a never say anything to anyone hit max level and do most of the game.
    Fortunately Steven and most here agree this is supposed to be and MMO heavy on the multiplayer aspect.
    That said there will still be some solo play stuff. Personally I hope it is minimal.
    No such thing as a solo player raid. That is nothing more then you killing a named mob. Not impressed.

    AGREED
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    If you play as a Necromancer, you are never playing solo. Best of both worlds!

    You took the words right out of my mouth
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • CytoxxCytoxx Member
    edited March 2021
    That said there will still be some solo play stuff. Personally I hope it is minimal.

    Why? A solo player doesn't hinder you playing with a group - there's no reason to discriminate against them.

    Myself I prefer doing stuff in solo style: I can take my time, can pause anytime I want to, or getting distracted on occasion. It also means no need for compromises, and if I mess up, it's my own problem :P

    That doesn't mean I don't interact with other players - I like to communicate, and of course doing some trading. Well, and once in a while I may even join a party for that special dungeon...

    Solo and multiplay can coexist side by side - there's no argument for exclusion.


  • There sure in the hell had better be a lot to do solo. Why you ask? Because I don't want to be stuck LFGing for literally everything and anything I want to do.

    Even when I'm in a guild, I still often do things solo because I like the personal challenge and not having to bow to the group if I would like to see what's over that ridge to the left while everyone else wants to go right.

    I have no issues interacting with others and will do so happily for things like crafting, entering those big nasty dungeons, etc but I should also be able to go off on my own and do my own thing.

    Also lets not forget that many don't have the time to wait around, organizing a party. If I only have 1-2 hours I sure don't want to spend half that time gathering people.
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  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited March 2021
    Also let's no forget about games like ff14 eso and other solo mmos.
    It won't be like that in AoC.
    If I had 1-2h I wouldnt play AoC and that would be the rational thing to do
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Cytoxx wrote: »
    That said there will still be some solo play stuff. Personally I hope it is minimal.

    Why? A solo player doesn't hinder you playing with a group - there's no reason to discriminate against them.

    Myself I prefer doing stuff in solo style: I can take my time, can pause anytime I want to, or getting distracted on occasion. It also means no need for compromises, and if I mess up, it's my own problem :P

    That doesn't mean I don't interact with other players - I like to communicate, and of course doing some trading. Well, and once in a while I may even join a party for that special dungeon...

    Solo and multiplay can coexist side by side - there's no argument for exclusion.


    Because then just like all the other games that allow that play style at all times the world becomes dead. Nobody says anything to anyone. No friendships are made. No new enemies. Just a bunch of NPC's running around doing random stuff.
    I also like to solo at times. Kick back music going and explore the world, find hidden stuff so forth. But I still think the majority of the game should encourage/require grouping.
    I tend to gravitate towards big chaos driven events.
    Back during Wrath of the Lich King I did a ton of AV premades and raiding. I like both play styles. Bit prefer big groups vs boring grind solo.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • insomniainsomnia Member
    edited March 2021
    mmo could just mean that there are other people around you, and not that every single thing you do, requires you to interact with people. You can have the option to play with others. Then there are content where you do play with others. My experince tells me you can't count on others in game, to be there, for dungeons or you craft the thing you need. How many of you have outlevel a dungeon, because you couldn't find a group. Or waited hours/days to get there, for someone to leave after 1 or a few whipes. Doing so you have to wait along time again, to find a group. People end up leaving because it has taken to long to form the group/get to the dungeon, so they don't have any time left to play. Or just lose patience. I bet you this will happen alot in game. People who think these things are fun/cool must lack things to do.
    I don't see the fun of wasting so much time and not getting anywhere
  • insomnia wrote: »
    mmo could just mean that there are other people around you, and not that every single thing you do, requires you to interact with people. You can have the option to play with others. Then there are content where you do play with others. My experince tells me you can't count on others in game, to be there, for dungeons or you craft the thing you need. How many of you have outlevel a dungeon, because you couldn't find a group. Or waited hours/days to get there, for someone to leave after 1 or a few whipes. Doing so you have to wait along time again, to find a group. People end up leaving because it has taken to long to form the group/get to the dungeon, so they don't have any time left to play. Or just lose patience. I bet you this will happen alot in game. People who think these things are fun/cool must lack things to do.
    I don't see the fun of wasting so much time and not getting anywhere

    Oh man, so many grey elite quests...

    Although I agree with what you say, I can already tell you what most people tell you to do.

    Find a guild. That's what it is for.

    I hate that answer. It is a solution that work, but what they don't accept is that it's not a solution for everyone.

    Be bold. Be brave. Roll a Tulnar !
  • One thing to consider about the viability of solo players is that it can lead to unsavory 3rd party behavior with farm-bots/houses.

    If there is any valuable action that a solo player can perform, that can then be turned around and sold on a 3rd party site for real money, then it has potential to break the economy of the game.

    I hope there are strong preventative measures being discussed and implemented to protect against this... but as a mostly solo player in modern MMO’s (old, father of 3, works full time, but still like to be in a world filled with other players... I just can’t commit to the same level as most others, but still want to be amongst the community), I would be saddened if I could only get “so far” on my own.

    If we can hit max level and do some general solo activities and own a freehold, then I’ll be good. I understand that since there is no level-damage penalty, we should be able to use skill or tricks to handle tough situations on our own, but I don’t expect to be soloing dungeons or bosses.
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