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Vassal node rebellion

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Comments

  • StreviStrevi Member
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Frostywombat wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »

    Why would everyone be lvl 5, you can still have an area of influence that prevents other lvl 5, unless your place is destroyed? You simply make it a choice to be a vassal or not.

    Fair enough,
    Would loose much of the npc caravans though with less vassalage. I think they could be fun to raid/protect.
    Also like the idea of empires forming rather than city states. Maybe they could force vassalage by intimidation/war as an alternative. That could be fun but more complicated and open to abuse.

    In general I don’t see vassalage as something you choose it’s something that’s forced onto you; economically, through war, or threats. Something you choose is more like an alliance.

    I just find it makes things a lot more interesting being able to freely create your alliances around the map with nodes agreeing to work together and such potentially. Like some LOTR stuff where u have an ally across the map and you ride over there to help them.

    Just feel like choice is loss and you feel the need to leave or feel like it's impossible for your node to level up as you have to hope one is destroyed, rather than making that happen yourself.

    Why would you choose your parent node rather than the game?
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Frostywombat wrote: »
    If no forced vassalage then everyone can be lvl 5 apart from maybe maintenance issues. I would rather lvl 5 be rare.

    Caravans to run from the vassals to the parent. One rebel mechanic would be to attack these caravans as they leave your node. Maybe with enough chaos and raiding a parent could be deleveled as it couldn’t afford maintenance. Dunno who would become parent in that case.

    Why would everyone be lvl 5, you can still have an area of influence that prevents other lvl 5, unless your place is destroyed? You simply make it a choice to be a vassal or not.

    If you do not pay taxes, the nodes might never have the resources to level and maintain defenses.

    Paying taxes is not that bad as when you lose in PvP and the other player takes your resources. You can say that you help together to maintain the high level node.
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • VoeltzVoeltz Member
    edited November 2022
    Strevi wrote: »

    You mean harvesting on their territory?
    Some node policies were mentioned this stream and more info will come later.

    No I meant a parent node destroying their vassal node to take their resources.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    edited November 2022
    Strevi wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Frostywombat wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »

    Why would everyone be lvl 5, you can still have an area of influence that prevents other lvl 5, unless your place is destroyed? You simply make it a choice to be a vassal or not.

    Fair enough,
    Would loose much of the npc caravans though with less vassalage. I think they could be fun to raid/protect.
    Also like the idea of empires forming rather than city states. Maybe they could force vassalage by intimidation/war as an alternative. That could be fun but more complicated and open to abuse.

    In general I don’t see vassalage as something you choose it’s something that’s forced onto you; economically, through war, or threats. Something you choose is more like an alliance.

    I just find it makes things a lot more interesting being able to freely create your alliances around the map with nodes agreeing to work together and such potentially. Like some LOTR stuff where u have an ally across the map and you ride over there to help them.

    Just feel like choice is loss and you feel the need to leave or feel like it's impossible for your node to level up as you have to hope one is destroyed, rather than making that happen yourself.

    Why would you choose your parent node rather than the game?
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Frostywombat wrote: »
    If no forced vassalage then everyone can be lvl 5 apart from maybe maintenance issues. I would rather lvl 5 be rare.

    Caravans to run from the vassals to the parent. One rebel mechanic would be to attack these caravans as they leave your node. Maybe with enough chaos and raiding a parent could be deleveled as it couldn’t afford maintenance. Dunno who would become parent in that case.

    Why would everyone be lvl 5, you can still have an area of influence that prevents other lvl 5, unless your place is destroyed? You simply make it a choice to be a vassal or not.

    If you do not pay taxes, the nodes might never have the resources to level and maintain defenses.

    Paying taxes is not that bad as when you lose in PvP and the other player takes your resources. You can say that you help together to maintain the high level node.

    Unsure what you are getting at I'm simply saying you can prevent lvl 5 nodes without forcing vassal..... If you are near a higher lvl town you can not upgrade until that one is destroyed.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZfqaW5klpg
  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    Strevi wrote: »
    Frostywombat wrote: »
    If no forced vassalage then everyone can be lvl 5 apart from maybe maintenance issues. I would rather lvl 5 be rare.

    Caravans to run from the vassals to the parent. One rebel mechanic would be to attack these caravans as they leave your node. Maybe with enough chaos and raiding a parent could be deleveled as it couldn’t afford maintenance. Dunno who would become parent in that case.

    I think high level nodes fall apart as you say due to not being able to sustain themselves if vassals are lost.
    Regarding caravans, it is unclear to me if players can attack or not caravans which go from a sibling node to the metropolis. IF they can, the metropolis might fall apart and those citizens will have no high level node anymore for a while.

    The masters receive only 1% of the vassal's xp, it's not a lot.

    I don't know yet how the caravan attacks will affect this, but for sure it's interesting... if you can make a metropolis fall due to having all the caravans killed this would be actually a thing in the game,
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • StreviStrevi Member
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    Strevi wrote: »
    Frostywombat wrote: »
    If no forced vassalage then everyone can be lvl 5 apart from maybe maintenance issues. I would rather lvl 5 be rare.

    Caravans to run from the vassals to the parent. One rebel mechanic would be to attack these caravans as they leave your node. Maybe with enough chaos and raiding a parent could be deleveled as it couldn’t afford maintenance. Dunno who would become parent in that case.

    I think high level nodes fall apart as you say due to not being able to sustain themselves if vassals are lost.
    Regarding caravans, it is unclear to me if players can attack or not caravans which go from a sibling node to the metropolis. IF they can, the metropolis might fall apart and those citizens will have no high level node anymore for a while.

    The masters receive only 1% of the vassal's xp, it's not a lot.

    I don't know yet how the caravan attacks will affect this, but for sure it's interesting... if you can make a metropolis fall due to having all the caravans killed this would be actually a thing in the game,

    @Arya_Yeshe Can you give me a link to where the "1%" is mentioned please?
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    @Strevi to be honest, I don't know where I took that from, I'm trying to find, let me see what I find, i could be even something entirely different.

    I guess I was mistaken or confused by something else.

    Let me bring everything that brings the desire for a revolt.

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Vassal_nodes
    Vassal nodes give excess experience to their parent node and may have their own vassals; so long as they fall within the parent node’s zone of influence.[6][2]

    If a node is capped and is both a vassal and has its own vassals, any experience earned from itself or its Vassals is first applied to its own deficit. Experience beyond that is then sent to its parent node.[8]

    Adjacent nodes (Neighboring nodes) starting from Expedition (stage 1) may block (lockout) the growth of their immediate neighbors.[7][3]

    Vassal nodes must remain at least one node stage below their parent node.[2]
    Encampment (stage 2) and Expedition (stage 1) nodes are technically not vassal nodes as they do not support citizenships. If their parent Village (stage 3) node is destroyed by a node siege, these nodes are also destroyed.[1]

    When the vassal reaches its cap it overflows experience up to the parent; and so it can be very good early on for parents to get vassal nodes that are very productive- that have a lot of traffic.[6] – Steven Sharif

    If a Node is a Vassal Node and is capped from advancing further, it first applies any experience earned to its own deficit (see Node Atrophy section), and then applies excess experience earned to its Parent Node. If the Parent Node advances and the Vassal is able to grow, it becomes uncapped. If a Node is capped and is both a Vassal and has its own Vassals, any experience earned from itself or its Vassals is first applied to their own deficit. Any experience beyond that is then sent to its Parent Node.[8] – Margaret Krohn

    Yeah, because the vassal is enslaved and level capped then it can't advance, so the vassals could end up paying a ton of excess xp and pretty much be slaves just like real life slavery.

    That's why I say that carebears will be tyrants who will be very hard to topple, the system is rigged for carebearng.


    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Node_taxes
    Parent (Sovereign) nodes take a cut of all taxes from the housing and any services that occur within their vassal node structure.[5][8]

    This tax doesn't necessarily impact the individual citizen, because citizen's tax levels are determined by their node, but the node's finances are affected by the taxation levied by its parent nodes.[8]

    Syphonning the taxes up to the "federal" government... I've seen that movie before!
    The taxes will be applied on somewhere else, somewhere you don't live.

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Node_atrophy
    Nodes accumulate an experience deficit each day based on the node's level. The deficit is subtracted from any experience earned that day. If any deficit remains, then this is subtracted from the node’s experience pool.[1]

    Mayors are able to initiate quest-driven systems that non-citizens can participate in. The mayor can use a portion of the node's treasury or goods as rewards for quest completion. Players will be able to interface with the node to view the quests that are available to them.[3]

    So the master nodes will collect the tax, then use the tax for making sure they stay in power.

    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • FrostywombatFrostywombat Member, Alpha Two
    edited November 2022
    Now we just need node experience transfers to manifest as attackable caravans and we have a great pass time for people of nodes that hate there parents.

    Caravan timing could be determined by the parent so you have the option of sending a army out to collect the Xp built up at a node. The longer you leave it build up the bigger a target it becomes.

    One potential issue would be if your capped and your a lvl 4 with a lvl 5 parent you may not bother collecting xp from a lvl 3 vassal unless u like your lvl 5 parent. Maybe this is ok, as it forces the lvl 5 cooperate with the lvl 4 if they can.
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