Loot distribution for bosses/uncommon encounters (Performance to reward ratio)
Jxshuwu
Member
Hi! I'd like to discuss a topic that has taken my interest and hear your opinions on it. Me and a friend had a discussion about this, so i'd like to see a third view. For my explanation i'll use a dragon as an example as its easy and simple to understand.
[NOTE THAT ALL THIS IS JUST MY OPINION, WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS IS ALL]
When a big world boss appears (in this case a dragon) and players from different groups and guilds and even solo players fight it, how should loot be distributed?
In my opinion, performance should be rewarded but participation and socializing should be rewarded too. Your personal drop table for the boss (and drop percentages) should differentiate from other players based on your parties performance with the exception of a single default drop that everyone gets.
Its sometimes frustrating for parties/players who put in more effort or are more skilled, and then don't get rewarded based on a RNG loot roll. On the flipside, its often frustrating for players who aren't as skilled yet to get absolutely nothing just because they aren't as good yet, and an RNG roll would work in their favor.
Let's say this dragon has a few drops;
- [Legendary] Dragontooth dagger
- [Rare] Dragonscale shield
- [Uncommon] Dragon-tooth (Resource, crafting material)
- [Common] Dragon scales (Resource, crafting material)
The party (or player?) with the highest {damage/heals/damage absorption} will be the only ones with a chance to get the [Legendary] Dragon-tooth dagger (Or a higher chance? /discuss).
The 2nd and 3rd parties or players will have a better chance at receiving the [Rare] Dragonscale shield
The parties or players that contributed the least, won't have (or have a lower) chance at receiving said drops, but will still be rewarded a chance to receive those items regardless. Not through a direct lucky drop, but through resources that you can craft into said items. They can receive the [Uncommon] Dragon-tooth to maybe in the future craft that [Legendary] Dragontooth dagger when they have the materials, or receive the [Common] Dragon scales to craft that [Rare] Dragonscale shield or maybe to craft some dragonscale armor.
I'd like to keep the rewarding feeling of having a rare drop, so ofcourse it wouldnt take a small amount of those resources, they'd need a bunch of those resources + additional resources they have grinded for. But even then, when those parties try their best, eventually they'll be rewarded for it regardless, this is especially important when its an uncommon event that you cant find every single day, you dont want to make them feel like they missed out on something amazing or rare. There's bound to be some players with lower end PCs who can't outperform the gaming gods on their 400fps ultra settings.
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As a quick sidenote, i personally would still love to have some rare weapons where there's only a few in the whole world, i just dont want that to happen for all higher tier items to reward the lower-end players. This is all speculation and idealization, i dont think for sure this is the best way of doing it, i just want to discuss this topic and see your views on it. It's interesting to talk about, hope you think so too.
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Sorry if its long, tried explaining it as compact as i could.
Thanks for reading
- A fellow AoC enthusiast.
[NOTE THAT ALL THIS IS JUST MY OPINION, WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS IS ALL]
When a big world boss appears (in this case a dragon) and players from different groups and guilds and even solo players fight it, how should loot be distributed?
In my opinion, performance should be rewarded but participation and socializing should be rewarded too. Your personal drop table for the boss (and drop percentages) should differentiate from other players based on your parties performance with the exception of a single default drop that everyone gets.
Its sometimes frustrating for parties/players who put in more effort or are more skilled, and then don't get rewarded based on a RNG loot roll. On the flipside, its often frustrating for players who aren't as skilled yet to get absolutely nothing just because they aren't as good yet, and an RNG roll would work in their favor.
Let's say this dragon has a few drops;
- [Legendary] Dragontooth dagger
- [Rare] Dragonscale shield
- [Uncommon] Dragon-tooth (Resource, crafting material)
- [Common] Dragon scales (Resource, crafting material)
The party (or player?) with the highest {damage/heals/damage absorption} will be the only ones with a chance to get the [Legendary] Dragon-tooth dagger (Or a higher chance? /discuss).
The 2nd and 3rd parties or players will have a better chance at receiving the [Rare] Dragonscale shield
The parties or players that contributed the least, won't have (or have a lower) chance at receiving said drops, but will still be rewarded a chance to receive those items regardless. Not through a direct lucky drop, but through resources that you can craft into said items. They can receive the [Uncommon] Dragon-tooth to maybe in the future craft that [Legendary] Dragontooth dagger when they have the materials, or receive the [Common] Dragon scales to craft that [Rare] Dragonscale shield or maybe to craft some dragonscale armor.
I'd like to keep the rewarding feeling of having a rare drop, so ofcourse it wouldnt take a small amount of those resources, they'd need a bunch of those resources + additional resources they have grinded for. But even then, when those parties try their best, eventually they'll be rewarded for it regardless, this is especially important when its an uncommon event that you cant find every single day, you dont want to make them feel like they missed out on something amazing or rare. There's bound to be some players with lower end PCs who can't outperform the gaming gods on their 400fps ultra settings.
_______________________________
As a quick sidenote, i personally would still love to have some rare weapons where there's only a few in the whole world, i just dont want that to happen for all higher tier items to reward the lower-end players. This is all speculation and idealization, i dont think for sure this is the best way of doing it, i just want to discuss this topic and see your views on it. It's interesting to talk about, hope you think so too.
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Sorry if its long, tried explaining it as compact as i could.
Thanks for reading
- A fellow AoC enthusiast.
4
Comments
I hate where the current MMO genre is in loot distribution, such as in retail WOW where it is all personal and merely luck of the draw. There needs to be some community aspect to loot distribution. We all have our different beliefs on the best system for that, but I just hope that AoC has a community focused loot distribution system; however that is spelled out I certainly find the developers here to be trustworthy individuals to come up with a good system.
Good post! Best wishes on enjoying the game. Hopefully we get to see it sooner rather than later!
Thanks for your reply! I also have high hopes for the team to be able to figure out a good system on drops, this is merely an idea they could pick apart.
I share that i dislike the current loot system of mmos, RNG does not feel rewarding at all, working for something does.
Thanks again for reading.
So loot drops to me would be like this:
1) Sentient npcs will drop what they are actually wearing and what may be in their pouches/bags/packs.
A. The gear they drop will be in the condition that the gear will be after they have fought. Ie. None of it would be 100% new, it would all be used if it was used in the fight.
B. Gear may be destroyed during the fight and thus not dropped or salvaged. i.e. You have a mage that uses a fireball on the npc which destroys their backpacks and any combustible goods within it, or you have a fighter that "sunders" their armor/weapon which means it is no longer around. Potions that are quaffed, are used and therefore not accessible.
2) Non-sentient creatures will only drop body parts in the condition that the creature is in when killed.
A. Slashing or cutting damage has a seriously chance to reduce the quality of the hide and the amount able to be skinned.
B. Poison and Magic may taint the body and make many parts unusable.
C. Blunt weapons may break bones and render bone structure unusable.
The material able to be dropped is not random and is preset depending on the type of mob, and the material itself has a threshold of damage that may occur before lowering its quality and possibly destroying it all together.
This means that a party needs to be more thoughtful and skilled when dealing with the npc over and above just how much damage they are able to provide to it. It calls for strategy in dealing with its attacks as well as what to use against it.
Loot distribution should be handled by the party in three manners:
1) Leader Decides
2) Random (This is the only time I accept RNG being used as its not from the developer being lazy but the actually players in deciding how their loot should be done)
3) First pickup (There is no auto loot and each item must be picked up seperately)
Then there is loot acquired from skill which should go to the person performing the skill. Ie. Skinning (which is not just based upon their skinning level but also upon the end quality of the skin and how damaged it was to start with).
Having non-sentient npcs drop only material increases the value of player crafting and stops the balance creep between game items and player made items.
If a fire mage destroys cloth or any other burnable items (or reduces its durability heavily) it could cause people to not want a fire mage in their party. I believe there would need to be some heavy balancing on every class whilst at the same time, keeping it 'realistic', which is a lot of work combined with general balancing in the game. It might also cause players to use weapons their class isn't supposed to use (unless they aren't able to do so? im not sure) just to prevent loot from being damaged.
Besides that, i think that items being battle-scarred would be cool indeed as long as there is an option to restore them also! Because its a bummer if you loot a rare drop, but its simply unusable. Loot in chests could maybe often be in pristine condition. Maybe there could be a scrap system where you scrap broken weapons/armor into materials for new crafting opportunities.
i HEAVILY agree that loot being dropped should be relevant to the appearance of who/what you're fighting.
Thanks for your reply
From my understanding, a mage is not limited to fire or ice or etc only. Having certain types of magic will cause them to slot their skills apropiately instead of having one slot fits all which is the norm for mmos. And heck, even if they can't.. I am perfectly fine with having a fire magic unusable against certain mobs... since there will also be mobs that you would want a fire mage for. I strongly disagree with any "one player fits any occasion"... I think player classes and gear should all have pros and cons for where they are needed and where they are completely useless. The greater the variety, the better in my opinion.
And yes, there would definitely need to be a "repair" option on damaged loot, which would of course call for a professional in that area's attention, however there should also always be a chance of that legendary loot being completely useless due to the party using the wrong damage or skill levels against it. The trade off is "you can kill it easier with that type of skill/damage, but you also risk losing the loot you want." So.. take it easy and maybe get nothing? Or take it the hard way and ensure you get what you want?
Loot should drop to the party that does the most damage only. There should not be any participation trophy's for just showing up as a solo player or small group. This is to improve socialization. Solo players or small groups should have to find ways to increase their numbers to ensure they have a chance at loot. This involves socialization.
In a competitive game like ashes bosses are less about the boss itself or the act of killing the boss, and more about the path of securing the boss. I am not saying fighting bosses should be trivial, but in my experience world bosses are always lean to being trivial.
What is never trivial is getting a cohesive group that can out compete other players attempting to do the same thing. If loot dropped for everyone involved in the encounter it would take some of the competition out of the game. Competition is good because you need to have people you dislike to make things real. You might remember the names of people that took a boss from you. Now you have a genuine revenge motive. People who have never been in a real guild war might not understand this, but there is so much more satisfaction in killing a group of people who slighted you vs the team a game matched with. The drama makes the game come alive.
Most importantly competition enhances "Risk vs Reward" which is one of the primary focuses of Ashes.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
If a world boss spawns, wouldn't it make sense for smaller parties and bigger parties to work together if they're part of the same node as it'll progress it which is beneficial to both? As for competition, a neighboring node's community might try to swoop in to try to steal it from the other node's players, which is the competition you mentioned (the people you ''dislike''). The risk would inherently be that neighboring nodes might come and pvp your ass to steal the rare resources.
Imo, that's more than enough risk vs reward. I Don't feel like there's a need to make it hardcore in any way, i dont think that's what AoC is aiming for.
Also just want to somewhat repeat what i said earlier, not rewarding the 'underdogs' is basically just neglecting a big part of the community simply put. Just rewarding the best causes elitism which is already a massive issue is most MMO's today.
As for players needing to search to ''grow'' to ensure socialization happens, is not a positive thing i think.
Reason being, some players want to keep their party compact and small. People should have the freedom to just play with their friends, and not be a part of some big name guild just to have access to some hot items.
If that would be the case, it wouldn't be positive socialization, but moreso a chore.. i.e ''gotta find a guild with X power level so that i can have a chance at X item'' that's not positive socialization.
completed items only chance to drop for the winning party
top 3 have crafting materials available with quality dictated by ranking.
rest of them get some certificates. In the described example it could be something like broken dragon scales. unusable for crafting but sellable to hunter NPCs.
No,
You don't want to promote people being underdogs. Underdogs should have to band together and form larger raids or break up and join larger guilds. Which are both examples of promoting socialization. The competition creates constant pressure for guilds to improve. Otherwise you could just get on with your social circle and never have to socialize. If all of my friends play Ashes at launch and loot is split the way you are proposing, we will not have as many reasons to meet other people outside of our circle.
Historically if small groups of people could provide enough of their own resources and fighting power there would have never been a reason to form whole nations. Not splitting the loot helps to emulate that dynamic.
Most importantly though:
What is also very likely to happen under your proposed system is your node neighbors will flat out kill you if you show up to a boss with a small group or as a solo player. In lineage 2, people would kill members of their own party/clan if they felt they were trying to avoid a death penalty instead of fighting to the death.
I have zero doubt that if six of your friends showed up to a dragon fight and my guild of 30 to 40 people were there. We would kill you without even thinking about it. You maybe our friends in a node siege, but that don't mean we don't want the best for our clan. It is not about being elitist, it is just the nature of a open world with PvP.
You are actually better off this way as a small group, because you at least have a chance of seeing the fight without getting PKed and learning from it. You would know what to do better when the next dragon spawns and have the pressure to improve your guilds numbers.
You still have the freedom to just play with your friends, but that does not apply to everything. It doesn't apply to node sieges, why would you expect it to also apply to raid loot? (the best loot in the game)
Ashes is just a different style of game.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
The first is the type of raid that a guild goes out to kill. This mobs presence in the world isn't an immediate threat to anyone that leaves it alone. This is essentially content for guilds to fight over.
The other type of content are the encounters that spawn to wreak havoc on an area, or where there is some other specific reason large groups of people would want them killed.
In regards to the first type of content, the rewards from it should be considered rewards for the successful raid - and the members of that raid should consider themselves a single "team" that work together often. As such, it is 100% appropriate to reward their effort with a few top quality items/materials, and leave it to them to sort out. This is also where the games loot system in regards to damage comes in to play - the group of people that deal the most damage get all the rewrads.
For the second type of content though, there should be some amount of reward in regards to particpating, and perhaps also performance based. I see these kinds of encounters as being similar to the rifts from Rift, which used a performance based system to determine rewards. This is the kind of content you want the community to get involved in, to cooperate to take on. It is not supposed to be a conflict between players to get the best loot.
However, it should be remembered, the primary reward for killing this second kind of content is that you don't lose your home. Any gold or items (which would all be of lower quality to the first type of content) are very much secondary considerations here.
The open world will be dangerous and people will use force to protect their interests with PvP or PK.
If there is an open boss that has high dmg, high hp and some minions or mechanics/behaviour, and awards good exp and materials, gold, full items, I think the strongest party or raid (two or more parties connected under a command scroll) should have privilage to the drops.
So for 10s or 15s, only that party or raid can /pickup the loot.
The rest of the players that are nearby, having attacked or not the boss, should receive a system message along the lines "conditions have not been met to /pickup that item" for at least 10s or 15s.
During that time PvP may ensure, to prevent the strongest party from picking up the loot. Kill them, CC them.
How is the strongest party or raid determined? By a system calculation of the most DPS+AGRO (+heal). Some system that should take in consideration that this party or raid tanked and damaged the boss. Why? Because a bunch of other people might form a party or a raid with just dps randoms, whereas the initial party used strategy.
That's how it worked in L2, the best mmo of all time.
I hope the improvement AoC can add to open world raiding are:
the conditions to spawn a boss
the mechanics to be more fun than a simple dps race.
Other than that, I would like to see looting being similar to L2.
I'd only count damage taken from the boss to a class/pet that is designed to be a tank. You don't want to count damage done from competing groups, etc. Also I believe Steven mentioned that there would be a bonus to the first group to tag the boss, which I agree with (perhaps something like 10%).
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
Sorry yes. That was where my mind was at when suggesting it.
He said that the ones that tag the mob have to then account for 40% of the damage done for looting rights. Ones that don’t tag the mob have to account for 60% to obtain the looting rights.
How that translates to raid/world bosses I’m not sure was mentioned.
''You don't want to promote people being underdogs. Underdogs should have to band together and form larger raids or break up and join larger guilds. Which are both examples of promoting socialization.''
If a guild of 40, and a party of 6 which are part of the same node (Note that in the system i mentioned, loot will not be TAKEN from the 40 to give to the 6, the 6 will simply also get the 'default' drop) and work together to take on that world event boss. Is that also not a form of socializing? It doesn't immediately mean they want to be underdogs, but simply have a preference of how they enjoy playing their content in the game or maybe their guild is still trying to grow.
''The competition creates constant pressure for guilds to improve.''
Wouldn't it be possible to improve as a more compact guild? Do you need to be big?
My best example, is in Albion online, you didn't have to be part of a massive guild to be powerful. Some guilds strictly examined and picked the players they wanted in their guilds, ended up with just 20 members and reached top 5 (Quality > Quantity) whereas there was massive guilds with over 300 members who didn't even reach top 20.
''What is also very likely to happen under your proposed system is your node neighbors will flat out kill you if you show up to a boss with a small group or as a solo player.''
Getting killed by a neighboring node over the boss, is just healthy competition is it not?
''You still have the freedom to just play with your friends, but that does not apply to everything. It doesn't apply to node sieges, why would you expect it to also apply to raid loot? (the best loot in the game)''
Since raiding will be split into parties the size of 8/16/40 they will already have access to pretty good loot on their own i think right? (could be wrong, correct me if i am). I Don't think smaller parties should be able to invade raids or anything of the sort, i more so mean open world bosses.
Its purely my opinion, but i firmly believe that staying in a smaller guild should be a possibility whilst still being able to do SOME end-game content. The reason being, when i played MMO's who didn't allow that to happen, 90%~ of the players would just join the big dog guilds already, and smaller guilds had a difficult time to grow creating 0 new competition, the only competition would be the already bigger guilds fighting over nodes. (this isnt a fun or enjoyable obstacle, its quite literally next to impossible at some point).
I believe socialization can be done on any scale, it doesn't have to be ever-growing. There should just be a cycle of players always needing other players through the means of crafting, repairing, and prob a bunch of other things.
Like @Noaani said, if some monster attacks a node both smaller parties and bigger guilds want to protect, how would you distribute the loot for this uncommon event? I believe my general system would do pretty well there. As for just world bosses on a spawn timer, i agree they can and should be fought over.
''So.. take it easy and maybe get nothing? Or take it the hard way and ensure you get what you want?''
This is a pretty interesting concept to me, difficulty = better rewards. I honestly doubt this system would be implemented in AoC, but that does sound cool.
Also, ''Ensure what you want'' do you literally mean ensure? Or a higher chance to obtain the item you want?
''my opinion on it is the "winner" should not be based off damage only, it should be the group with the highest damage done + healing done + damage taken''
Fully agree with this and the fact that the damage taken only takes tanks/tank pets into account like the other reply said. Would also definitely help with more class diversity, more tanks and healers throughout the game.
'' In the described example it could be something like broken dragon scales. unusable for crafting but sellable to hunter NPCs.''
I think everything you said is a good idea, but this last thing doesn't sound too good to me. I personally really dislike unusable items, people should have an option as to what to do with an item, choices is what makes things fun. They can either sell it for some money, or decide to keep it for crafting purposes. I think just giving them a crafting material that's more common is a better option here. + It being a crafting material brings people together more.
What if its an uncommon event, like an example i previously used, a monster attacks a node and defeating this monster as quickly as possible is of similar interest to both a smaller party and a larger group of players. How would you distribute loot in this scenario? Reward the lower tiers with nothing for defending their beloved node, helping both themselves AND the big dogs? What you said completely makes sense though, but i dont think it fits in every scenario.
So if all parties involved get loot that drastically changes the meta. A 40 man raid would adjust their party size to unsure that they get the big loot, and have small side parties that get the extra loot. How many side parties would they make? As many as would get loot. Only if the number of parties that are allowed to hit the boss is more than they could muster would they allow small parties not in their guild to live and leech off of the left overs. I personally don't think Steven would ever go for this.
He has talked many times about how fighting over resources in L2 was some of the most fun he has had in MMOs. It also could be seen as a "Participation Trophy" which is not something he is famous for enjoying.
No, you don't to be in a big guild, you just need to be big alliance/guild to secure big raid bosses.
A smaller guild could spec their perks in ways a larger guild could not. Maybe in a way that makes the guild an attractive alliance member.
I could have worded that better. I meant neighbors from within your own node. Like just because you are a part of the same node does not mean they will just let you be there for the boss fight.
Yes, anyone from an outside node attacking you is healthy competition, but that also applies within the node.
I can't tell you how many times in WOW/other games my friends and myself wished we could kill our own faction over the slightest thing. I know we are not the only ones out there who play like this.
Sure, if a boss is not considered high value, and is for a smaller group size. Like a lower level world boss. By all means if a smaller group can take it, they should.
Back in L2 when leveling I tried to hit any raid boss with any group that had a slot open if my guild was busy or I was playing in off hours. It is a good way to get a shot at loot or XP and a good way to put a good name out there for yourself and your guild.
I have been mostly talking about high value bosses that will be hotly contested.
Like I said, the hope of the guild perk system is to allow smaller guilds to be partitions in a greater alliance. If you make a guild of guys who specialize into something an alliance does not have. That is highly marketable. You should have no problem being able to have the agency of a private guild and the help of a whole alliance if your guild is good at what it does and provides a mutual benefit to the alliance.
To me, this is good economics and socialization at play.
The loot rules are pretty clear at the moment. The tagger requires 40% of the DMG to get loot, any other party's have to deal 60% of the DMG to get loot. In the case of three or more parties it is going to be hard to beat the tagger. So be quick at tagging I guess.
Also remember this is all just my opinion/speculation that is informed from reading a ton of the wiki, watching as many interviews as I can, and playing a ton of Lineage 2 and Darkfall online. Things might change down the line. Right now it seems clear that Ashes is pro "Risk Vs Reward" and anti "Participation Trophies".
I hope these clarifications where helpful.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
“I personally really dislike unusable items, people should have an option as to what to do with an item, choices is what makes things fun. They can either sell it for some money, or decide to keep it for crafting purposes. I think just giving them a crafting material that's more common is a better option here. + It being a crafting material brings people together more.“
I’m only using the already confirmed loot table of full items, crafting materials and hunting certificates here. I don’t believe a raid boss level crafting material should be given to everyone that participated as that devalues the item. Now raid boss certificates would easily be worth a decent monetary sum which if the players choose to they can caravan it to far away nodes to be sold for a sizeable amount.
Bear with me on this one...
In ffxiv and eso there were 'events'.
In ffxiv there is or was a quest to upgrade your class weapons. It requires to kill random spawning world bosses across the world.
Do you know what happens? 200 people attack it. It dies in less than a minute and everybody gets an insignificant reward.
In the open world of eso eso there were bosses, a tiny bit harded world bosses, dragons, dark anchors, harrowstorms and some other clam related nonsense.
They are supposed to be group activities. What happens is, they all die within a minute or two, everybody gets an insignificant reward and thats it.
No chat, no organization, no challenge. Nothing in both games.
I insist on rewards being given only to the strongest group because this will lead to less zerg, making the event a 2min dps race joke where everyone is a winner, and there is no real danger.
The heroes in these events should not be 200 players.
Let them be 20. Let them get ALL the loot.
And let there be PvP instead, due to peoples greed, instead of a false, joke of a danger scenario in which 200 unorganized players save the day within a few minutes.
If people still wanna RP as saviors let them. But dont spoil the loot of the few who actually can avert the disaster.
Tldr
Rewarding every participant leads to unimpressive zerg fests and the whole thing ends quick, with 0.00001% chance to fail and lose.
Restricting the rewards to the strongest group, reduces the interested zerg and also leads to PvP.
I did not think about that! My only guess for a fix would be a cap of some sort. I also don't agree with people just leeching off of the greater work.
What if your guild doesn't fit the perks that alliance needs for a specific raid? Will they simply not have access to that content and loot?
Hahah i've had the same! Moreso for loot reasons specifically, in Albion you could flag up for a faction of a city, and only be attacked by people flagged for another city. They'd do transport runs with expensive mounts, if i saw one from my faction, i wish i was flagged for another at that time to yoink their mounts. This makes sense, i'd probably like going rogue also.
Hotly contested bosses should stay exactly that, contested. Most powerful party decides all, whether or not they show mercy or kill. Smaller bosses for smaller parties shouldn't be attacked by 40-man teams, wouldn't make any sense for them to do so, so i think smaller parties will be fine when it comes to that.
What if there was a boss, where you needed 100~ players or so to defeat it, but the largest party there is made up of 40. They'd need other players (of their node) to contribute. I was wondering how they should be rewarded more so. Ofc its also possible that won't even exist in the game, so who knows.
This is exactly what albion has at the moment, an alliance system and there's one major problem.
You've read the wiki, so maybe there's already an answer im not aware of, but what happens when major guilds alliance in order to preserve the top spots? iThat's what's been happening in albion ever since ive been playing it, hoarding all the higher tier zones with higher tier loot. It sounds cool for the lower-level guilds to band together, rebel and rise up, but will that really happen? It'd be more beneficial for an individual to just be part of the big boy group so they have access to this high level stuff.
I do like that system, do you perhaps know how loot is distributed within a party?
I agree with risk vs. reward 100%, the mmo i played most and is my current favourite is basically all about that. Lower tier resources and items are in the safer zones, higher tier resources and items in the riskier pvp zones. I'd do nothing but pvp people for their items haha. It's just that i like having a tighter knit guild of mercenaries who specialize in something, and if allied with a bigger party, i worry about what's in it for us when pve'ing.
Super helpful! Just happy someone's willing to discuss to this extent as i love having more insight about these things. Will also read bits and pieces of the wiki.
Thanks!
EDIT*
Quickly want to add, what if we change the subject to individual performance loot?
Would my system work in groups?
Example:
Top 20% of Damage/Heals/Damage tanked: = Higher chance/only chance for those [Legendary] items
40% below that = Higher chance at the [Rare] drops
lowest 40% = the more common resources
Would this work at all within your own party? Or would this invite ''elitism'' as it'll be clear who underperformed perhaps.
I honestly like the sound of that, bringing exotic items to faraway nodes where it fetches more money. This makes sense, thanks!
Party loot options decided by the leader are;
Free for all, loot master, round robin, need before greed and biding potentially.
I’m having the idea now of simply having the items and crafting materials only drop 1-3 pieces per top x groups so that simply being in a larger raid doesn’t mean you’re personally guaranteed good loot.
AoC is not going to be one of those games where everyone is getting a participation trophy, and i'm hopeful that it won't turn into one
⇻ theNILV ⇺
Too soon to tell. The "Guild Skills" that I have been miss remembering as perks have little specific information at this time. Mostly we know the cap will be a trade off for other valuable skills that effect game play. I imagine increased spoil/harvest rates, crafting/processing quality or quantity. There is really a ton they can do with this. So long as there is a wait time between joining and leaving guilds. Otherwise people would exploit the system, by having a ton of guilds and switching as needed.
There are other examples of the DEVs talking about this we just don't know how diverse the system will be. I am hoping we have plenty of room for people to build out niches within their nodes.
They want to prevent zerging as much as possible by not having 100+ people be in a fight. This is an area where I would argue with the DEVs. We know the reality is, if you can throw 300 people at a raid. 300 people will show up.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Zergs
I am just skeptical of their methods of preventing zergs. I think they will figure something out during alpha and beta.
Parties are free to pick. I love player agency.
Here are the choices:
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Looting
I would love to see that as a loot system option for a group to pick among the existing options. I don't know how many groups would opt to use it. I feel like it would help my luck with gear if I ever got in a group that used it.
It could lead to people padding numbers. Tanks pulling more ads to get higher damage taken. DPS AOEing mobs when there are other more important ads to focus, healers over healing.
Ideally it would just lead to high efficiently, but people will be dirty for loot.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
In the process I mentioned, there is no RNG involved, the loot item would "always" be potentially available, after all the loot being dropped is used by the mob in some form or fashion (ie. a skull or tooth). Since you are damaging the mob then there is always the chance of you "damaging" that loot, however if you never hit the mob in the head and only in the rear end or neck then the tooth or skull is never damaged, correct? Granted, the fight is a WHOLE lot tougher when you steer from hitting the closes thing to you (being either the claws or the face) so expect to be shredded a lot more, but at the same time, if you can pull it off.... you would be guaranteed to get a tooth or skull intact.
Rareness would come from there only being 1 type of this mob for a set interval of time and experienced fighters with the mob will know better what actually causes harm to the loot item they want so there is actually a skilled knowledge base in taking the monster down more than normal. Granted the net pretty much makes that mute after a few kills, but it may take several kills for someone to find out that this legendary item that they could have been having was never had cause they kept getting hit by the tail of the dragon which caused the gem embedded within its tail to be destroyed before they ever killed it, however, one day they may have never used a tank and all range attackers which evaded being swatted by the tail for the most part and found a tip of the tail still intact and say "OH WOW! LOOK! Never knew it dropped this! Was a hell of a mess not getting tail swiped, but oh wow"
(Note: There is the case where the mob may have already had the "loot" damaged or destroyed before you got there, which means you would want to get it as soon as it spawns... which is pretty much the case for established games where boss mobs are being camped. I hate camping, which means they would need to have the mobs spawn in different areas instead of pre-determined areas which for this I would condone the use of RNG as the developers would want to ensure that players are not able to calculate its appearance)
Another for a humanoid mob could be to take the mob down before it had time to drink a certain potion, and etc.
That's a good balancing system for guilds, you have to sacrifice certain guild skills to increase player cap, i like that. Albion should definitely have that haha.
People being greedy for loot would definitely be a problem, you right. Ideas seem so cool in my imagination but mechanically they end up not working at all xd.
Its really cool, but i feel like it's something that would fit in better with singleplayer/co-op RPGs.