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Animations - Interactions with the World

JirueJirue Member
edited March 2021 in General Discussion
Hi there,

Visually the game looks like it has some nice things going for it. Models look nice, special effects on skills look good, and generally the animation work is good in a bubble. Problem I'm seeing is that the animation work seems to not adjust to the environment...

Feet tend to float off the ground with no inverse kinematics adjusting their position to match them to the terrain, the terrain itself doesn't get footprints from character movement over it, no dust particles are created when running or when a skill flies close to the ground, ect. This leads to the characters not really seeming like they're actually interacting with the environment, which I think is the current weakest point of the game's visuals.

Just my thoughts on it though, curious what y'all think of it and whether you've also felt the animations were a bit lacking because of these missing elements.

Comments

  • SkylarckTheBotanistSkylarckTheBotanist Member, Alpha Two
    I am not concerned about these little things as this is pre-Alpha.
  • OstaffOstaff Member, Alpha Two
    Aye, its good you brought this up, but seeing how the game hasn't even hit alpha yet... those are things I would look for closer to release than at this point in time. Also, that is really all client side visuals which can be done at a much later date with no impact on the game play itself (with the exception of maybe the footprints which could be used by a player with a "tracking" skill)
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    These effects are all nice, but not at all important.

    I would not be surprised if we never see any of them. It would be nice to have all of them, but in no way is it a deal breaker.

    Fun fact. In FFXIV your characters head moves to look at your target. If the target is behind you your neck and head will aim in that direction and your eyes will correctly adjust to look over you shoulder. It is really impressive and nice tech that goes un-noticed. I have pointed it out to people who have played for years and never noticed it. Another one of those things that is really nice, but not at all important.
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    This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
  • Taleof2CitiesTaleof2Cities Member, Alpha Two
    Skylarck wrote: »
    I am not concerned about these little things as this is pre-Alpha.

    ^This.^
  • StarcryStarcry Member
    I agree that it is pre-alpha and this can easily get fleshed out, but I also agree that player characters in general look floaty at this point, like the player and the world are two separate entities. Worst example i can think of this happening is Lord of the Rings Online where its just blatantly feels like your character isn't even touching the world but is performing actions over a 3d painting. When you take a step, the game should mask or blend together the models and the world physics so it feels like you took a step in that world. The footage I've seen isn't awful but its not quite right either so I think its good to bring up.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Starcry wrote: »
    The footage I've seen isn't awful but its not quite right either so I think its good to bring up.

    Bringing it up is all good, but in doing so it is equally important that people know that the game is two years away from launch (or more), and so there is still a whole lot of work to be done on things like this.

    You are looking at in game footage of Ashes at a point in development that is earlier than many games are even announced. Expect most things to not be polished at all yet.
  • JirueJirue Member
    edited March 2021
    On one hand, yes... the game is in pre-alpha and is subject to change/improvement. On the other... it being pre-alpha isn't really a reason to dismiss a criticism. Yes, it can/will be changed/improved... and that's the point of criticism, to discuss what could be changed/improved.

    No, I'm not saying these pieces of the visuals are critical and should be prioritized. I'm just pointing out these pieces as being the most notable points the visuals are currently lacking from what I've seen. I'm trying to speculate on the current visual dissonance I feel looking at the footage so far and trying to determine:
    1. Am I a minority in this feeling of dissonance?
    2. Are these missing elements the cause of the dissonance?
    3. Does this conclusion of mine match with other people's conclusions?
    4. Are there other elements contributing to this feeling that other people have recognized which I have not considered?
  • Taleof2CitiesTaleof2Cities Member, Alpha Two
    Think of it as your favorite wine, @Jirue.

    The grapes have been harvested and ready for crush ... but it's impossible to have a meaningful discussion on the current vintage by evaluating the grapes only.

    After crush, the raw grape juice is then allowed fermentation, poured into barrels, and left to age.

    After several months have passed, the vintner/winemaker has a "barrel tasting" to evaluate the product before it's released to the public. That's when initial judgments begin to form, evaluations are made, and feedback is solicited and given.
  • AsgerrAsgerr Member, Alpha Two
    Jirue wrote: »
    On one hand, yes... the game is in pre-alpha and is subject to change/improvement. On the other... it being pre-alpha isn't really a reason to dismiss a criticism. Yes, it can/will be changed/improved... and that's the point of criticism, to discuss what could be changed/improved.

    No, I'm not saying these pieces of the visuals are critical and should be prioritized. I'm just pointing out these pieces as being the most notable points the visuals are currently lacking from what I've seen. I'm trying to speculate on the current visual dissonance I feel looking at the footage so far and trying to determine:

    1. Am I a minority in this feeling of dissonance?
    2. Are these missing elements the cause of the dissonance?
    3. Does this conclusion of mine match with other people's conclusions?
    4. Are there other elements contributing to this feeling that other people have recognized which I have not considered?

    1. A number of people have felt that dissonance, however mostly related to combat abilities/skills
    2. For you? possibly
    3. I wouldn't say so. Most people understand that those elements are relegated to the polish phase of later game development
    4. Character animations are a bit clunky at this point. This is a result of the current engine being used, and they addressed this indicating they'll switch to the newer version of it later on, allowing for better character animation. In the recent gameplay shown, lighting was not fully optimised so at times textures might have felt flat. In that latest gameplay there was a bug that made it so grass appeared to be mown.

    These are all minor issue in the scope of a development that is still focusing on nailing the core mechanics menus, and visual elements. The minor elements are all polish to be added later.

    It has to be said as well, that so long as the gameplay, game loop, mechanics etc are strong, the graphics could be passable at best and still be a good game. Otherwise I have to wonder why half the MMOs and western made RPGs and Steam Early Access games on the market are being played at all.
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  • JirueJirue Member
    edited March 2021
    Taleof2Cities wrote: »
    Think of it as your favorite wine, @Jirue.

    The grapes have been harvested and ready for crush ... but it's impossible to have a meaningful discussion on the current vintage by evaluating the grapes only.

    After crush, the raw grape juice is then allowed fermentation, poured into barrels, and left to age.

    After several months have passed, the vintner/winemaker has a "barrel tasting" to evaluate the product before it's released to the public. That's when initial judgments begin to form, evaluations are made, and feedback is solicited and given.

    Sorry, but this analogy is nonsense. This is a game, a interconnected series of software systems which can be worked on individually but come together to make a whole product. The closest comparison of what I'm talking about in my criticism to your wine analogy would be a discussion on the wine bottle they've shown on their advertisements for the upcoming product. I don't need to taste the wine to notice some unappealing parts and make some judgements of the bottle design they've been advertising.
  • Taleof2CitiesTaleof2Cities Member, Alpha Two
    edited March 2021
    Jirue wrote: »
    This is a game, a interconnected series of software systems which can be worked on individually but come together to make a whole product.

    Fair enough, you don't like my analogy.

    I will re-iterate, then, that it's too early to have a meaningful discussion on the animation interactions with the world for a game that's still in pre-Alpha.

    The post below mine summarized it pretty well:

    Asgerr wrote: »
    These are all minor issue in the scope of a development that is still focusing on nailing the core mechanics menus, and visual elements. The minor elements are all polish to be added later.
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