How everyone feeling about the game?

CrocosCrocos Member, Braver of Worlds
It's coming up to the 4 year anniversary of the launch of the Ashes of Creation kickstarter and I'm wondering how everyone is feeling about the game. How have your expectations faired over the years? Do you feel let down or do you feel like things have gone roughly as you would imagine?

For me personally this is basically how I imagined it to go. MMO development takes a long time and I'm pretty happy with the progress its made.

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Comments

  • VmanGmanVmanGman Member, Founder
    It will take longer than I expected. Initially, I thought it would be done by early 2022, but that seems very unrealistic at this point.

    Otherwise, I'm excited and their design philosophies are exactly what I want from a MMORPG, but I'm still waiting to see if they actually pull it off.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member
    Excited to watch it grow. The forums kill time at work.

    It not exactly everything I would want in a MMORPG, but I am not put out by the compromises. It could be the best MMO of my life.
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  • George BlackGeorge Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    I think it will be the best mmorpg so far as it offers real open world choices/interaction between players. That is what mmos set out to be. Not stage gameplay Versus or Co-Op like in playstation and nintendo.
    Plus for the first time there is a real sandbox element when it comes to establishing and ruling cities.

    My only worries are the class and weapon concept. It'd rather more quality and less quantity there.

    I will still enjoy it 100% since I will be able to open world PvP without p2w but with concequencess per engagement as opposed to pointless zerg gang gameplay like in most pvp mmos right now.
  • Excited to learn more, impatient to learn more, and eager to play once it's ready!
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  • squeeteesqueetee Member, Leader of Men
    Excited. The early Apoc miss-step was a good learning moment for a fresh company. Graphics and play impress me, and it's only early Alpha so far.

    Worried of the end result of water/boat systems and nodes. Especially nodes if those fall flat the game will fall flat for me personally.
  • MarcetMarcet Member
    I like how everything is going, I just want it to be perfect even if it takes 5 more years.
  • Less excited than I used to be, but still think it'll be a unique and entertaining game when it comes it out.

    I was naive and really bought into the hype a few years ago (even believing that we would see betas "by the end of 2020" lmao). Now I know that the kickstarter was actually pre-pre-production and there's still a couple years before I'll get to play. And I've realized that some of their goals are too ambitious, not to my personal taste, or straight up contradictory.

    But the node system is still remarkable, the dev team seems solid, and Intrepid listens to it's community (when it's smart to listen (usually)). Progress is being made and shown. I'm eagerly awaiting more information. (More dev blogs on nodes and augments please.) And I continue to enjoy speculating about the game. So I'd say I'm still pretty hopeful.
  • VmanGmanVmanGman Member, Founder
    @Leonerdo5 Which goals are you referring to as “straight up contradictory”?
  • Leonerdo5Leonerdo5 Member
    edited March 25
    @VmanGman Mostly stuff surrounding the interaction of PvE and PvP. Like corruption has to be so perfectly balanced if it's going to fulfill both goals of "letting people play as bandits/fuck with rivals" and also "protect casuals from griefing".

    And I still don't know how they're going to make 64 classes with supposedly 4 augment trees each... without making half of them feel the same.

    Maybe "contradictory" isn't the right word for it. But there's a tough balance that they have to strike with some of their systems.

    Edit: Oh and they seem to struggle with their own release schedules and how much they want to talk about things early, but that's pretty par for the course for game dev.
  • VmanGmanVmanGman Member, Founder
    @Leonerdo5 For sure. I hear you. Yea they definitely have the work cut out for them.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Leonerdo5 wrote: »
    àà
    Maybe "contradictory" isn't the right word for it.
    There absolutely are some contradictions though.

    Holy trinity setups are designed around PvE, they aren't much use at all in PvP. The developers are all keen on talking about the PvP aspects of the game, yet we know almost nothing about PvE.

    That right there is a fairly big contradiction in game design.

    Then we have the family summons - everything about it is a contradiction.

    Then we have the general design of the game where it is every player for themselves, where it is in your best interest to attack others and take their stuff, with the contradiction of aspects of the game where everyone needs to work together - the game is trying to be cooperative and combatative at the same time.
  • VmanGmanVmanGman Member, Founder
    @Noaani If you had played a sandbox MMORPG with open world PvP such as Albion Online, you would know that the holy trinity is very integral to the PvP setting. It is not a contradiction.

    Once again, if you had played (and understood) a sandbox MMORPG, you would know that player driven content and drama is an awesome aspect of the game. Making friends and enemies is in many the core of the game. Some people will be your friends and some will be your enemies... there is no contradiction there.

    I’ll give it to you that the family summon system is questionable. It makes sense why they would want it in the game, but there can obviously be some issues with it as well. We’ll have to see how it is implemented with respect to other systems.

    There really aren’t many contradictions in their design philosophies.
  • Bro stop contradicting my contradictions
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    VmanGman wrote: »
    Noaani If you had played a sandbox MMORPG with open world PvP such as Albion Online, you would know that the holy trinity is very integral to the PvP setting. It is not a contradiction.
    With the way you build your class in Albion, they are not following the trinity.

    I'm sure you know the game I have spent the second most amount of time in was a PvP focused sandbox MMO, and I stand by my assertion.

    Once again, if you had played (and understood) a sandbox MMORPG, you would know that player driven content and drama is an awesome aspect of the game. Making friends and enemies is in many the core of the game. Some people will be your friends and some will be your enemies... there is no contradiction there.
    These things are all good, drama, intrigue etc.

    Thing is, they need to be from the players, not from game systems.

    Working with or against others is something that should be on players schedule, not the games schedule.

    If I am pissed off at you and your guild, and the game then forces us to work together for a mo star coin event, thatwill just piss me off further.

    Having events like this takes aspects of that drama
    and intrigue out of the hands of players.
    I’ll give it to you that the family summon system is questionable. It makes sense why they would want it in the game, but there can obviously be some issues with it as well. We’ll have to see how it is implemented with respect to other systems.

    There really aren’t many contradictions in their design philosophies.

    Player agency yet not giving players information to make important decisions.

    Classes that are lore based, yet can be swapped in to one whim (why can I be a necromancer one day, and a paladin the next?).

    Wanting PvE content that people will aspire towards, yet focusing on open world PvE content where PvP is enabled.

    There are a good number of contradictions in this game so far.
  • Cautiously optimistic.

    So far it looks like an ambitious MMORPG-in-making that would capture a lot of gameplay elements I miss from the good old days, and also many exciting ideas that I wish an mmo would have. And details released so far seem to be promising.

    But you never know, until it's actually released. I don't usually get hyped about a game until it's at least in beta, and Ashes is not even in alpha yet.
  • VmanGmanVmanGman Member, Founder
    @Noaani

    Holy Trinity & PvP:

    Albion most definitely adheres to the holy trinity. You have tanks (initiators/CC), DPS (clappers), and healers as well as some other roles such as supports and battle mounts. Just because you can build your ‘class’ based on your gear, it doesn’t mean that Albion doesn’t have tanks, DPS, and healers. The holy trinity is in no way contradictory to PvP.

    Also, I have no idea what games you’ve spent your time in.

    Player Intrigue and Drama:

    I don’t see how any of that takes it our of the player’s hands. If you live in the same node as someone that you don’t like and your node is threatened by evil monsters, I would hope that you would put your differences aside and save the node. Enemies have always lived in the same city throughout history. It’s not an unheard of concept. If you really hate their guts that much, then leave the node and attack them. Why would you share a home with someone you hate that much?



    I have no idea what you’re referring to with “Player agency yet not giving players information to make important decisions”. That is really vague and I feel like we will have plenty of information to make numerous important decisions.


    We don’t know yet how difficult it will be to swap secondary classes, but it doesn’t seem like it will be on a whim. Also, you can’t go from necromancy to paladin... those belong to two different primary archetypes. Lastly, that is not a contradiction... allowing lore to be bent slightly for the sake of gameplay can be hardly considered a contradiction.

    The fact that PvE is important and is intertwined with PvP is in no way a contradiction. In fact it is the core of many sandbox MMORPGs. People will aspire towards PvE content for many reasons including to get stronger for PvP. The fact that PvP will also be present is by no means a contradiction.

    Just because you don’t like or don’t understand something it doesn’t mean that it’s a contradiction.
  • TemkkeyTemkkey Member
    Im not convinced yet. It´s still too early for me to throw money at the project.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    VmanGman wrote: »
    Noaani

    Holy Trinity & PvP:

    Albion most definitely adheres to the holy trinity. You have tanks (initiators/CC), DPS (clappers), and healers as well as some other roles such as supports and battle mounts. Just because you can build your ‘class’ based on your gear, it doesn’t mean that Albion doesn’t have tanks, DPS, and healers. The holy trinity is in no way contradictory to PvP.

    Also, I have no idea what games you’ve spent your time in.
    Albion doesn't have hard classes.

    You can be a tank today, and a bruiser tomorrow. This in itself precludes the game from being able to be considered "trinity based". Any game where any character can fulfill any role can't claim to be trinity based - there is more to it than simply having tanks, healers and DPS.

    Now, if you played open world PvP games to the same extent as me, you would know that the issue with tanks in such games is in relation to their ability to survive or thrive solo. No matter how many friends you have, no matter how big your guild is, every open world MMO will see players need to do things by themself at times.

    The reason Albion doesn't really fit in to this conversation is because you don't run around as a tank in Albion - you swap out some gear and all of a sudden you have a new build.

    Straight up, that game doesn't even come close to qualifying to fit in to the discussion we are having here.
    Player Intrigue and Drama:

    I don’t see how any of that takes it our of the player’s hands. If you live in the same node as someone that you don’t like and your node is threatened by evil monsters, I would hope that you would put your differences aside and save the node. Enemies have always lived in the same city throughout history. It’s not an unheard of concept. If you really hate their guts that much, then leave the node and attack them. Why would you share a home with someone you hate that much?
    If there is a monster coin event, it isn't a case of what you want or don't want. You HAVE to work together.

    The choice is taken out of your hands.

    I have no idea what you’re referring to with “Player agency yet not giving players information to make important decisions”. That is really vague and I feel like we will have plenty of information to make numerous important decisions.
    There have been four distinct times Intrepid have shared with us where they had a decision to make in regards to information made available to players.

    These four distinct times have been combat trackers, displaying character level, ability to see worn armor type when wearing cosmetics, and ability to inspect to see gear.

    In literally every single case, Intrepid have opted to take the route that offers no information to players.

    I'm not at all sure where you have the idea that we have "plenty" of information made available to us.
    We don’t know yet how difficult it will be to swap secondary classes, but it doesn’t seem like it will be on a whim. Also, you can’t go from necromancy to paladin... those belong to two different primary archetypes. Lastly, that is not a contradiction... allowing lore to be bent slightly for the sake of gameplay can be hardly considered a contradiction.
    You are right that you can't go from a necromancer to paladin - I was reading the chart on my phone and made a mistake in reading it.

    However, I can go from a necromancer to a beastmaster, or a paladin to a warden.

    I also agree with you that they shouldn't necessarily make decisions around lore if they negatively impact gameplay - but they also should have named their classes better so as to not hit a lore based contradiction.

    THe reason I included this is to make sure it was understood that I wasn't just including contradictions in regards to gameplay mechanics that I personally care about. But it IS a contradiction.
    The fact that PvE is important and is intertwined with PvP is in no way a contradiction. In fact it is the core of many sandbox MMORPGs. People will aspire towards PvE content for many reasons including to get stronger for PvP. The fact that PvP will also be present is by no means a contradiction.

    Just because you don’t like or don’t understand something it doesn’t mean that it’s a contradiction.

    The reason the PvE/PvP thing is a contradiction is because you simply can't put PvE that people aspire to kill *as PvE content* in a PvP enabled area. Any encounter in a PvP enabled area has PvP as it's biggest challenge. As such, PvE encounters in PvP enabled areas straight up can not be the type of content that people would aspire to take in *as PvE content*.

    Any content that is the kind of thing players will aspire to take on will need to be instanced. This means that Intrepid are now in a position where they are trying to make a game that is focused on open world content, but where the content that people are supposed to aspire to is instanced.

    Are you sure you don't see a contradiction here? I honestly can't spell it out any clearer.
  • TacualeonTacualeon Member
    edited March 25
    I'm studying videogame development and specializing in Combat Design.
    I'm enjoying the ride as a player while learning development at the same time.

    I have strong opinions about combat, specially plaver vs player interaction.

    The game looks pretty and armor sets look tasteful and not overly done. I choose to interpret it as a sign of thought and good judgment.

    I like the promise of high graphics pretty hybrid combat.
    Even if their visions of combat is different from mine I hope the hybrid combat is tasteful and innovative with thought and good judgment behind it; not just TT with a re-skin.

    I rather see a new and fresh take of combat from them than something done a thousand time before.
  • BiccusBiccus Member
    Noaani wrote: »
    There have been four distinct times Intrepid have shared with us where they had a decision to make in regards to information made available to players.

    These four distinct times have been combat trackers, displaying character level, ability to see worn armor type when wearing cosmetics, and ability to inspect to see gear.

    In literally every single case, Intrepid have opted to take the route that offers no information to players.

    But you can see the player level. You can see the armour type (its a buff but it's still for you to see)
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited March 25
    Biccus wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    There have been four distinct times Intrepid have shared with us where they had a decision to make in regards to information made available to players.

    These four distinct times have been combat trackers, displaying character level, ability to see worn armor type when wearing cosmetics, and ability to inspect to see gear.

    In literally every single case, Intrepid have opted to take the route that offers no information to players.

    But you can see the player level. You can see the armour type (its a buff but it's still for you to see)

    You can see the armor type as a buff if you target the player.

    That is another contradiction in regards to action combat. It also isn't exactly useful when there are more than about 4 potential targets.

    If you are able to see player level, then that is a change they have made, as they specifically said you wouldn't be able to see it a while ago - the same time they said you will not see any information in regards to target HP, as well as a few other things.

    For my own benefit (as opposed to the standard 'links or it didn't happen'), have you got a link to where they said this?
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited March 25
    Biccus wrote: »

    Do you have a time stamp for that? Even just a rough one. If I am going to comment, I want to make sure we are talking about the same thing.
  • BiccusBiccus Member
    edited March 25
    Noaani wrote: »
    Do you have a time stamp for that? Even just a rough one. If I am going to comment, I want to make sure we are talking about the same thing.


    7646s (2:07:25)

  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited March 25
    Right, so you'll be able to hover over a users nameplate to see information.

    All this means is that instead of standing around as a level 1 player harvesting, I just need to be in a group of people that you are attacking.

    I mean, players in PvP are inconsiderate and move around all the time, making it near impossible to hover over their nameplate (which is how you get the information, according to Steven in that video).

    So here's the question - if they are making that information available to players, why are they making it impossible to actually find when it is needed? An icon for class, armor type, weapon type and level should all be on the nameplate - since this is likely all information we are able to jump through hoops to get. Give players the option to turn which ever of these off or on as they wish, but make this basic information easily accessible to players *when we need it*.

    While I appreciate learning something I didn't know (honestly, thanks), this isn't exactly Intrepid putting information in players hands as they need it, and is actually kind of just another contradiction.

    Edit to add; basic information should NEVER be in a hover UI element. These elements should be either for in depth information, or for tutorial type information. This is just bad UI design if they put basic information here - it would mean we can't turn off hover boxes, which is standard for me in any game that allows it.

    Honestly, having this information available in this manner rather than in a convenient way so that we can assess multiple threats simultaneously just makes me angry. Who thought this would be a good idea?
  • IzilIzil Member
    Havent tried it yet.
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  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member
    I just have to say after watching that link @Biccus. I learned something new, and I hate it.

    Seeing armor type and class... ok sure. Seeing if there armor grade is higher or lower than yours... ok.

    Seeing other players level though...

    To me that is a huge mistake. It creates a dynamic where you know too much about your enemy. It takes the danger of the frontier out of the game. You know immediately what sort of threat to expect when encountering a new player. There is no thinking twice about it. I have played games with open world PvP where you know almost nothing about you enemy and I have played ones that tell you level, health, gear score, ect. To me the lack of information makes the whole open world experience better.

    When you invite someone to a party sure it should tell you hp,level,ect for PvE. Outside of a group you should have to gage how strong someone is by how far there hp bar moves when you land an attack or how far a mobs hp bar is when they land an attack if you are trying to gage their power without fighting them. It just takes some of the fun of trying to asses threat out of the game.

    Disagree if you want, but I don't like it.
    CctsKnC.png Verra-similitude
  • GubiakGubiak Member
    I feel like I finally have something to be worth waiting for. I am trying to be patient and want this game to succeed but I am also a starved mmo fan that has been waiting for something like his for a long time.

    I am more optimistic than I probably should be.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Disagree if you want, but I don't like it.
    I was actually expecting a post like this from you.

    If it makes you feel any better, while the information is available, that is more of an "available", rather than available.

    This method for gaining information is literally only any good when there are three or four targets, and even then, it's a waste of time.

    While I would rather see the information made readily available to players, I am of the opinion that it should either be readily available or not there at all - there shouldn't be a need to hover your mouse over a moving target to get that information.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member
    Noaani wrote: »
    I was actually expecting a post like this from you.
    That moment when you realize you are not just shouting into a void.

    Having the information available is not a deal breaker. I just don't like that part of the adventure is lost.

    Considering that the UI is not going to be mod-able. I have to agree on your point. If we are going to have this information. Hovering over players would just be annoying.

    Still I could see coordinating information over discord for quicker threat assessment. I know we always call out targets anyways in world PvP/Arena. Someone is going to notice which target is weaker in a team fight, and call it out.

    There is just something about having to feel watch health bars move over knowing exact numbers that is so much more thrilling to me.
    CctsKnC.png Verra-similitude
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