Instead of family summon, do this

MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Alpha One
Family summon brings 10000 problems. Instead, why not have a summoning stone in towns you can build with other players. This way you work towards an epic goal, and it is more immersive to summon your friends. The game will be massive, and the scale is epic. Dont ruin it with meaningless loading screens and teleports everywhere. Make summoning unique.

Also, this system cant be exploited as easily as family summon.

What do you think, should a village lvl 3 node have the option to build a summoning stone
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Comments

  • KhronusKhronus Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I don't like this idea to be completely honest. It takes away from some of the perks a scientific node would have.

    I would like to see a hearthstone on a long cooldown. We won't have flying mounts, we won't have summons, we won't have quick travel....so after a long journey of roaming or raiding, I REALLY do not want to have to run back 20-30 minutes to get home.
  • DreohDreoh Member
    Marzzo wrote: »
    Family summon brings 10000 problems. Instead, why not have a summoning stone in towns you can build with other players. This way you work towards an epic goal, and it is more immersive to summon your friends. The game will be massive, and the scale is epic. Dont ruin it with meaningless loading screens and teleports everywhere. Make summoning unique.

    Also, this system cant be exploited as easily as family summon.

    What do you think, should a village lvl 3 node have the option to build a summoning stone

    It could actually be exploited far WORSE than the family summon.

    Once every node has a summoning stone, you've essentially just unlocked fast-travel to anywhere.
  • Just take it out of the game, we don't need summons.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Bricktop wrote: »
    Just take it out of the game, we don't need summons.

    This gets my vote.
  • ArcheonArcheon Member
    edited April 22
    Marzzo wrote: »
    Family summon brings 10000 problems. Instead, why not have a summoning stone in towns you can build with other players. This way you work towards an epic goal, and it is more immersive to summon your friends. The game will be massive, and the scale is epic. Dont ruin it with meaningless loading screens and teleports everywhere. Make summoning unique.

    Also, this system cant be exploited as easily as family summon.

    What do you think, should a village lvl 3 node have the option to build a summoning stone

    Actually really like this idea, and it feels way more immersive and realistic then; "my alt is my wife so i can teleport across the world for free..."

    This will actually foster community, promote the node develop system and integrally tie into the overarching mechanics of the game. It is something players will instinctively and immediately want to work towards...

    This being said I would say that the construction of these stones should be veeeerry expensive and not be buildable in every city only few and far between




    Either that, or as other users have suggested, take all forms of summoning and teleportation completely out of the game (other then that achieved via the scientific nodes) this in all honesty would be my preferred option, I really dont like the family summoning system.
  • SaeduSaedu Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I like the convenience of fast travel, but totally understand why it is not good for this game.

    I see having a hearthstone being a problem as well as it takes people who are loaded with materials out of the equation of journeying back to town and the risk of getting ganked.

    I would like a return home auto-pilot feature though so I can multi task and watch some Netflix while I'm going back to town.

    I don't really like the family summon thing and I agree it could be exploited. Also it's not fixing the core issue (a group of people getting together to do content) unless it's the family.

    I think the idea of a summoning stone could work if: (1) it's not directly next to a point of interest (a node, dungeon, etc). Make the user travel ~2 mins to get where they need, (2) it has some guards so people don't get ganked on loading screen, and (3) it has a 1-2 hour CD... this is a long enough CD to minimize zerging issues while still helping people group together.
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    @Archeon I expect people will marry their alts early on for just that reason. But once people start figuring out the advantages of matrimony (shared housing, storage, freeholds, etc.), I wouldn't be surprised if the wedded alt idea falls out of favor and is replaced with marrying close friends. There is a cooldown on divorce and re-marriage, I will speculate it will be a week or more.

    Good ideas in your last paragraph above!

    Another reason to not marry your alt would come with the roleplaying, right? There are some things that are more fun to role play with another person than just by yourself. I'm sure there will be some of That roleplaying in apartments and the freehold wheat field.
  • pyrealpyreal Member, Warrior of Old
    Archeon wrote: »
    Marzzo wrote: »
    Family summon brings 10000 problems. Instead, why not have a summoning stone in towns you can build with other players. This way you work towards an epic goal, and it is more immersive to summon your friends. The game will be massive, and the scale is epic. Dont ruin it with meaningless loading screens and teleports everywhere. Make summoning unique.

    Also, this system cant be exploited as easily as family summon.

    What do you think, should a village lvl 3 node have the option to build a summoning stone

    Actually really like this idea, and it feels way more immersive and realistic then; "my alt is my wife so i can teleport across the world for free..."

    This will actually foster community, promote the node develop system and integrally tie into the overarching mechanics of the game. It is something players will instinctively and immediately want to work towards...

    This being said I would say that the construction of these stones should be veeeerry expensive and not be buildable in every city only few and far between




    Either that, or as other users have suggested, take all forms of summoning and teleportation completely out of the game (other then that achieved via the scientific nodes) this in all honesty would be my preferred option, I really dont like the family summoning system.

    Family summons fosters community more than some anon stone rubbing in the center square.

    Family summons allows players TO FORM LONG TERM GROUPS (aka community ties) in order to summon. The nature of this will promote strong camaraderie. A rock you rub on in town doesn't do this.
  • neuroguyneuroguy Member
    edited April 22
    Bricktop wrote: »
    Just take it out of the game, we don't need summons.

    I agree but I also think that to promote a social game where new players will want to join their friends who are already playing, they need something (well they don't need it, but I see them caving on it). Especially when you consider that there will be no zone levels and low level players can in principle find things to do in any node/zone. I like the summoning stone with a de-buff that can't be removed preventing further summons for 24h or something. Hell, make it that only family can summon you from the stones.

    I think the spirit of the post is to restrict the location to which summons can occur. You don't want people parachuting reinforcement, so spatially restricting where summons can occur is a great idea imo and I think will need to be implemented to some capacity anyways.
  • KhronusKhronus Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    neuroguy wrote: »
    Bricktop wrote: »
    Just take it out of the game, we don't need summons.

    I agree but I also think that to promote a social game where new players will want to join their friends who are already playing, they need something (well they don't need it, but I see them caving on it). Especially when you consider that there will be no zone levels and low level players can in principle find things to do in any node/zone. I like the summoning stone with a de-buff that can't be removed preventing further summons for 24h or something. Hell, make it that only family can summon you from the stones.

    I think the spirit of the post is to restrict the location to which summons can occur. You don't want people parachuting reinforcement, so spatially restricting where summons can occur is a great idea imo and I think will need to be implemented to some capacity anyways.

    In this game, we don't need a summon to any location at all. Physically move to get to anywhere we want to go. From there a return home would be nice. To imply that the game would be any less social because of a lack of summoning options is silly. You want to play with your friends? Travel.....ONE time to get to their node.
  • ArcheonArcheon Member
    edited April 22
    tautau wrote: »
    @Archeon I expect people will marry their alts early on for just that reason. But once people start figuring out the advantages of matrimony (shared housing, storage, freeholds, etc.), I wouldn't be surprised if the wedded alt idea falls out of favor and is replaced with marrying close friends. There is a cooldown on divorce and re-marriage, I will speculate it will be a week or more.

    Good ideas in your last paragraph above!

    Another reason to not marry your alt would come with the roleplaying, right? There are some things that are more fun to role play with another person than just by yourself. I'm sure there will be some of That roleplaying in apartments and the freehold wheat field.

    In reality I dont really care about RPing at all; that is not to say I dont deeply care about immersion in the wider universe I just dont find interest in actively RPing my character in RP narratives created by players, also I dont want my teleport to be dependent on another person being online or at the location which I want them to be.

    I can guarantee that I for one will 100% exploit the family summon, marry my alts and position them in capital cities to allow for instant summoning across the world, its not speculative or hypothetical, im literally saying if they put that system in going to exploit the hell out of it.

    and I guaraaaanteee, that thousands will do the same, in reality the majority of people dont care about rp sadly, and will exploit the family summon in order to fast-travel around the world... just as I will if its in-game.
  • maouwmaouw Member
    I think your suggestion is very similar to what a Scientific node is, but I prefer any form of porting to be more difficult to unlock than a level 3 node, and I like that the ability is limited to scientific nodes to make it more unique.
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member
    Did not read every post in the thread so this may have been suggested.

    The idea of limiting the summon to a location is good, but it could be improved. Maybe if the family summon was only at a "Family Hearth" which would be built in a house in one of the family members homes. As a way of bringing family members back home if they wander too far from home.

    I just want this family summon crap to be nerfed into the ground or removed. Any sensible idea that nerfs it has my vote.
    CctsKnC.png Verra-similitude
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Did not read every post in the thread so this may have been suggested.

    The idea of limiting the summon to a location is good, but it could be improved. Maybe if the family summon was only at a "Family Hearth" which would be built in a house in one of the family members homes. As a way of bringing family members back home if they wander too far from home.

    I just want this family summon crap to be nerfed into the ground or removed. Any sensible idea that nerfs it has my vote.

    This is potentially the best idea I have seen that is not massively abusable.

    Allow each family to designate a player house as its "home", with some limited functionality akin to a guild hall, and make that the only place a family member can be summoned to.

    With this, I would even happily have it so that one player could summon the entire family at once, or select individual members.

    There is still limited scope for abuse with this, but it is far, far less than being able to summon a family member to a location out in the world.
  • Noaani wrote: »
    Bricktop wrote: »
    Just take it out of the game, we don't need summons.

    This gets my vote.

    Ditto... Mounts are enough. Id rather see the epicness of the enemy army riding towards me on mounts over the horizon, then just all teleporting in at some glowing object in a random place in the world
  • DreohDreoh Member
    Just make it so you get some corruption if you teleport along with not being able to bring materials along
  • neuroguyneuroguy Member
    edited April 22
    "Khronus wrote: »
    In this game, we don't need a summon to any location at all. Physically move to get to anywhere we want to go. From there a return home would be nice. To imply that the game would be any less social because of a lack of summoning options is silly. You want to play with your friends? Travel.....ONE time to get to their node.

    It's not one time though, your friend got online 2 hours before you and moved to a different location in the world. You want to play with them, are you going to spend 20 min walking to them? Every day you want to play? Like I said, I'm also a fan of just not having fast travel but I understand the argument for them and I do think they need to be considered. If anything wanting to 'return home' to me is why I wouldn't want any fast travel in the game, that's the stuff that can be more easily abused. Wanting to fast travel to a friend with limited play time is frankly one of the only valid reasons I can think of for having any form of fast travel.

    I do love @Vhaeyne 's addition to the idea that you have 1 designated location but I do think that the ability to blueprint plop a freehold anywhere in the world is actually more freedom than having the location in 1 node. So I'd rather have 1 node be designated the 'home node' and you can only summon to that node. Freeholds can be placed close to dungeons for example and would be counter to the spatial restriction.

    Edit: by one node I mean the literal city/settlement/metro that is the hub of that node.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited April 22
    Dreoh wrote: »
    Just make it so you get some corruption if you teleport along with not being able to bring materials along
    This would hurt the people that the summons is supposed to help, and not be an issue at all for the people that would abuse it.
  • MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Alpha One
    Noaani wrote: »
    Bricktop wrote: »
    Just take it out of the game, we don't need summons.

    This gets my vote.

    Imaging wanting to play with your friends, but you simply cant, you are too far away from them. Big move
  • KarthosKarthos Member, Braver of Worlds
    I'm going to need to hear these 10,000 problems before I'm able to make an actual decision on whether this is an actual problem or not.

    Every single one
    Aq0KG2f.png
  • Ever play Elder Scrolls Oblivion? It's going to have as much fast travel as that if they don't remove it. The game doesn't need fast travel at all of any kind except for the last upgrade of a node. That's only because it's a potentially cool gimmick to give such a high level node. I'd rather not even have that.

    You know what you should have to do when you want to play with friends. Hold W the entire time. That's it. You are never going to be in a position to where you are far enough that the game needs a system as broken as a teleport to be in the game.

    There is something a lot of people don't even consider when they think family summoning is a good idea. When you start the game you are going to get a free teleport to one of the many alters in the world. So you are literally never going to be that far away from close friends at any point.

    Without fast travel that breaks up premade guilds and makes the world fresher. Which completely stops zergs in the world before the game has a chance to mature.

    It would be stupid even if it had a month long cooldown. I doubt the current iteration has anything close to that.
    1UL8RIb.gif

    U.S. East
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    If you want to party with your friends, there is another option that works pretty well.

    Plan Ahead.

    As in, an email that says 'Let's play Saturday PM 2:00 CST, move your toon to the city hall of Yuyuville and don't be late.'
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Alpha One
    tautau wrote: »
    If you want to party with your friends, there is another option that works pretty well.

    Plan Ahead.

    As in, an email that says 'Let's play Saturday PM 2:00 CST, move your toon to the city hall of Yuyuville and don't be late.'

    Just like the good old times of getting a D&D game organised
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • Nagash wrote: »
    tautau wrote: »
    If you want to party with your friends, there is another option that works pretty well.

    Plan Ahead.

    As in, an email that says 'Let's play Saturday PM 2:00 CST, move your toon to the city hall of Yuyuville and don't be late.'

    Just like the good old times of getting a D&D game organised

    You guys late I'll break your fucking kneecaps. xD
    1UL8RIb.gif

    U.S. East
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Alpha One
    Yuyukoyay wrote: »
    Nagash wrote: »
    tautau wrote: »
    If you want to party with your friends, there is another option that works pretty well.

    Plan Ahead.

    As in, an email that says 'Let's play Saturday PM 2:00 CST, move your toon to the city hall of Yuyuville and don't be late.'

    Just like the good old times of getting a D&D game organised

    You guys late I'll break your fucking kneecaps. xD

    Gods you sound like my DM
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • MintJamMintJam Member
    I see at least 1 possible way to abuse the family summon mechanic, if I understood it correctly. So 8 people per family and anyone in that family can summon all the other family members to their location. I would believe that a meta would develop where the guild assigns the families so that the family is a well-coordinated task force whose members harmonize with each other. Now let's say that the guild forms parties that all have 1 member from each different family. Let's say that there are 8 people per party. That 8 people suddenly becomes 64 people when they initiate the family summoning. I also noticed a mass cloaking spell that made a group of people invisible. Now imagine that singular party cloaking and sneaking to a strategic position, then summoning their family members.

    If something can be abused, it will be, and this mechanic will be abused constantly.

    So what can be done to fix these issues?
    1. You aren't able to summon family members if you are in a party that has non-family members? This would not work since people would just leave the party and still coordinate the summoning without being in a party.
    2. Making the summon a long and visible process to other players? I think this is one of the best alternatives. By giving other players a visual cue if someone is being summoned will diminish the tactical advantage that this summon mechanic can give. A sound cue might also be necessary since seeing a visual effect of the summoning indoors might be impossible. Furthermore, the summon mechanic should summon 1 family member at a time with time between each family member, so that a horde of enemy players can't just suddenly appear.
    3. Giving summoned family members a debuff for a short duration? This would also diminish the tactical combat value of the family summon, if it's with a combination of the 2nd suggestion. As the family summon mechanic should only be used as a tool for friends to gather together for their play session, it should make it almost impossible to be used as a tool to gain a combat/tactical advantage. By giving debuffs to summoned players, the summon can't be used to rescue players or to gain sudden numbers advantage.
    4. Placing summoning stones in key locations? This would make it so that there are fewer ways to abuse the mechanic, but it could still be used to gain an advantage by itself. This idea could be combined with other suggestions. On a personal note, I found it cool to see a summoning/teleportation device in the city center in the first season of Sword Art Online. As others suggested, it could be integrated into the node progression and be buildable by the mayor. There could be quests that are unlocked with node progression that allows players to discover more summoning stones across the node. This would make it so that in the early game, the summoning feature has fewer opportunities to be used, but more in the later stages. These summoning stones would increase the leveling time of nodes compared to the system that was mentioned. The negative effect would be griefing. Some people might purposely camp near summoning stones to take advantage of their limited time vulnerability. Of course, this is somewhat preventable with the corruption system.

    I also believe that once a player has been summoned once, there should be a long cooldown period to be summoned again. For example, this prevents abusing the teleportation for fast travel, where family members would be scattered across the map in key locations, giving an advantage to some members for completing quests.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    Like Corruption...we will just have to wait til we can play and see what it's actually like.
  • MintJamMintJam Member
    Personally, I don't think summoning should be in the game. If you want to play with your friends, then plan that before the next game session, so that you can be at the same place at a certain time. Like in the real world where you at some point in your life have arranged meetings with your friends or colleagues etc. Maybe this game could actually teach something valuable to players, like time management, being on time, managing your schedule. Things many people don't have in the real world, unfortunately.
    Sure it's a video game, but it still feels stupid.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Marzzo wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Bricktop wrote: »
    Just take it out of the game, we don't need summons.

    This gets my vote.

    Imaging wanting to play with your friends, but you simply cant, you are too far away from them. Big move

    Imagine calling people that dont wait for you to log in "friends".
  • YakuYaku Member
    edited May 3
    What if you have (1) a long cooldown on family summons, somewhere between 48-72 hours, (2) the summon must be set at a fixed location (at the center of a node?), (3) changing that location triggers a long cooldown, (4) you cannot bring more than a certain carry weight, (5) the items you bring are temporarily locked to your player and are untradeable outside of the family for 48-72 hours, and (6) you cannot leave your family frequently and without cost.

    The carry weight threshold would permit you to bring your own armor/weapons/consumables, but would restrict the player from abusing the summon to transport traded goods across the map. The restriction on trading functions the same way, while allowing trading between members of the family so that you can outfit your party for adventure. Intrepid could simply patch the weight of an item if abuse becomes prevalent. What this also accomplishes is ensuring that players are not bringing armor for sale, because then they would not have their own equipment equipped. It also ensures that players are using the summon hub as a meeting point only and would not permit tactical use by allowing summoning into a field of combat. A penalty for changing families ensures players do not enter into a family lightly, and also creates community pressure toward guild loyalty.

    I think that the system is important to allow players with different schedules to play independently without feeling as though they are creating problems for their group, but still allow the group to meet up easily when everyone logs on. Punishing the more active players feels bad, just as punishing the community by permitting abuse of the family summon system feels bad.

    Just spitballing here.
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