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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Ashes of Creation - Fiery Chaos Freeholds in your grassy fields
Archeon
Member
Its been announced by the team that short of player response and review that they currently have no intention to limit the use of cosmetics related to biomes and in effect the aesthetic of the world will be defined by players who intend to do the following:
""snowy mountain and then suddenly you turn the corner to see my freehold with a beach oasis skin on it and I sit atop of Mr. Stufferton, the magically animated stuffed poodle mount."
" large green happy field with butterflies, then suddenly you see my freehold tower with the skin on it of a dreadlord tower black and fiery. "
or"
Staff Post:
A segment of the quote:
"As of this time we haven't announced any restrictions on what kinds of cosmetics you could use in certain areas/biomes"
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/49096/brine-and-bounties#latest
This personally is a 100% deal breaker for me, Im not interested in playing yet another one of these mmorpgs, and I made my feelings abundantly clear.
Players who bought these aesthetics may be fine with it, but I would be interested in whether this world which will be the actual reality of the game acceptable to others.
as a noteworthy point: at present there is no intention to allow players to disable player bought cosmetics in-game, so that they arent affected by other players intending to choose to do this to the world... all while paying a sub fee...
So please post your opinions and comments, does this world sound acceptable to you? I for one feel a little side-swiped by the imagery depicting one thing and the intent being in effect the exact opposite (a beautiful immersive world which matters vs a cosmetic driven world dominated by cash-shop cosmetics, out of place free-holds and players riding corgis while changing their race to angels and demons....) but that is just me.
""snowy mountain and then suddenly you turn the corner to see my freehold with a beach oasis skin on it and I sit atop of Mr. Stufferton, the magically animated stuffed poodle mount."
" large green happy field with butterflies, then suddenly you see my freehold tower with the skin on it of a dreadlord tower black and fiery. "
or"
Staff Post:
A segment of the quote:
"As of this time we haven't announced any restrictions on what kinds of cosmetics you could use in certain areas/biomes"
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/49096/brine-and-bounties#latest
This personally is a 100% deal breaker for me, Im not interested in playing yet another one of these mmorpgs, and I made my feelings abundantly clear.
Players who bought these aesthetics may be fine with it, but I would be interested in whether this world which will be the actual reality of the game acceptable to others.
as a noteworthy point: at present there is no intention to allow players to disable player bought cosmetics in-game, so that they arent affected by other players intending to choose to do this to the world... all while paying a sub fee...
So please post your opinions and comments, does this world sound acceptable to you? I for one feel a little side-swiped by the imagery depicting one thing and the intent being in effect the exact opposite (a beautiful immersive world which matters vs a cosmetic driven world dominated by cash-shop cosmetics, out of place free-holds and players riding corgis while changing their race to angels and demons....) but that is just me.
2
Comments
I posted this in another thread:
Mechanics>Aesthetics>Immersion
Personally I truly believe that. If you look at most MMORPGs it seems like that is the hierarchy is in place. No one cares how immersive a game is if it doesn't look good. No one cares how good a game looks if it is not fun to play. I mean this as generalizations not absolutes.
When it comes to your main question. Is it acceptable for out of place cosmetics to be in the game? I think it is a big yes in this case. Intrepid has sold these cosmetics this whole time. No one should have really been under the impression that they would play in a world where there was not these crazy looking cosmetics. Not when they have been announcing new crazy looking cosmetics every month and in Kickstarter. Intrepid was never trying to sell a game that was focused on high immersion. When they show off the monthly cosmetics, they are telling you "This is going to be a part of the game.".
I think it is perfectly acceptable, because that is the game they want to make, and that is the game they have been selling for years. If all of a sudden they said you you could turn off cosmetics to get a pure experience. The pitch forks would rightfully come out. That would be be them going against years of telling us that you can't disable cosmetics unless you are in a siege with low performance.
I hope this is not a deal breaker for you. I don't think many MMORPGs in the future are not going to sell cosmetics. It is just too good of a model to pass up. If it is a deal breaker. The whole genre might be dead to you.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
"I don't care." "No one cares". But, this person cares... I personally care at least a bit.
Not saying those responders shouldn't have posted, since this is counter-feedback, but at that point we'd need a whole poll. Maybe the majority of people don't care and therefore this game won't be for the people who prefer immersion of this type, since in some cases majority rules.
And of course, if someone wants to put their oasis freehold skin in the middle of a snowfield, that takes precedence over someone who 'doesn't want to have to see this immersion breaking thing'.
But similarly, the option 'toggle other player's cosmetics' might not be too terrible, particularly for the really really creative freehold skins? I think I'd vote yes on that.
This isn't really like other cosmetics. A ship moves. A player moves. A mount moves. A pet moves. These things can't really 'feel out of place' the way a freehold skin can.
Just because Ashes is open to community feedback does not mean Ashes is a democracy.
The DEVs are making a product and selling it to you. They have been very consistent about the features of their product for years now. They don't want to have toggled cosmetics.
You can hear it from the DEVs themselves:
This is not something to be voted on, and if it was there are likely millions of dollars worth of pro-cosmetics votes from the people who buy them. Again, I am not pro-transmog. I am very pro-toggle button. That does not mean it can ever happen. It would devalue everyone's purchase who bought a cosmetic.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
Maybe it can be something that the Parent node government can restrict? Similar to local councillors.
Unfortunately the choice not to allow players to disable other players intentionally world/immersion breaking choices, completely devalues any active sub within the game completely disregarding their experience in-favour who pays a little bit more, in the pursuit of monetising the game, a feature which directly and irrevocably decreases the quality of said game and therefore decreases the value of every single sub to said game.
As I said previously if they dont unequivocally state that players cant do this im 100% out, I am completely un-interested in playing yet another TRANSMORPG I want to play an actual MORPG.
and from the sounds of it from the most recent dev post unfortunatenly unless stated otherwise, it looks like this may be yet another game driven by money making and maximising micro transactions over bringing us the quality game we have all craved.
You may feel that it devalues your sub, and that is a perfectly valid feeling.
Everyone who buys cosmetics is paying for a sub too. Adding a toggle button would disregard their experience in favor of who complains more...
Even if you managed to move a mountain and get a toggle button added to the game. A million people would come out of the wood works and move that mountain right back. We don't hear from the pro-cosmetics swarm right now because they are happy. If intrepid said: "We are thinking about a toggle button for cosmetics..." in the next DEV update. The discord, Reddit and this Forum would be on fire before the stream ended.
Unfortunately for you and me, many people play MMOS these days for transmog. I would wager that more people play for transmog than Immersion or recognizable PvP targets. I hate to bet against my own interests, but a safe bet is a safe bet.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
Do you wanna refund everyone that has bought a cosmetic skin?
Didn't think so.
Illusions run rampant. Just because you see a building on fire in the arctic does not necessarily mean there are actual flames there.
I don't think cosmetics and skins will come with tags that can be restricted by the Mayor.
(Transmogs/illusions are part of immersion for a high fantasy/high magic RPG.)
Glad to see another good point on tour!
I could ramble about the D&D spell "disguise self" for paragraphs, but you summed it up.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
Both responses seemed to be giving their concept of how they felt about it, which I assumed would not be relevant to give, if the decision was already made outright (as indicated by the video given).
Therefore I went the route of doing the same (and the indication that this particular type of cosmetic might not have the same impact and might not have been what they were referring to).
I wouldn't give any feedback to indicate 'I want to be able to turn off other people's cosmetics' for anything other than 'especially jarring freehold skins', so I guess that's my only contribution.
But I guess *outstanding* freeholds could attract some ... unwanted attention ...
I mean, ppl are gonna go after all freeholds after a successful siege anyway, but they'd probably go after weird ones first.
"Node down! Looting time! Know any freeholds nearby?"
"I think I've seen some houses along the way .... ohhh I remember now, there's a fiery warlock tower south of there. Let's raid that thing"
"Sure."
I would rather all the buildings can look out of place than just a few that stand out making you think "That player paid money to look out of place"
I don't want to see neon/glow-in-the-dark/illuminated cosmetics, other than, perhaps, as limited time period rewards for specific in-game achievements. i.e. for players that have done something special and deserve recognition for a month (or so?). By way of example, a flaming skull cosmetic (ref. Hell Rider) could be a nice reward for last month's PvP winner.
The very second neon cosmetics are available in the cash shop the game will take a turn for the worse IMHO.
I never want to see a node full of players dressed for Mardi Gras EVERY DAY. This would likely kill the game for me.
I am more than happy with the wide variety of cosmetics that I have seen so far, I'm just wary of what could be added in the future. Once Pandora's box is opened and neon cosmetics escape then there is no going back!
i mean. ok theres a Fiery tower on a Gras Land Biom next to idk a Deep Forest. thats kind of stupid to me but. OK.
Now Imagine theres an Area with more than 1 of those Freeholds next to each other.
Now we got a Fiery Tower next to an Oasis next to an CRPYTtower of Darkness. next to a Mushroom building with Redcap Roof all on this Grasland Area.
I mean cm'mon thats pretty damn goofy.
Game will look like an amusement park.
lmfao, weren't very interested in playing it to begin with if this bothers you that much. Have you seen the gameplay promises they've made for this game? But no, you draw the line at cosmetics that have no bearing besides immersion, it's better for everyone if you and people who think like you skip this game.
Then can I cast dispel magic on your house?
If no, then they actually aren't immersive like you're implying.
But on the other hand I know that person probably picked it because it makes them happy when they see their home.
I feel like if someone came up to my freehold and told me that they thought it was terrible looking, or that I should remove it, I'd feel horrible. At the end of the day I'd never want to do that to someone who clearly enjoys what they're making. Just because I think something looks bad doesn't mean that another person thinks the same way. Everybody has different tastes, so while I might not like it, it doesn't make it wrong, it just makes it different.
At the end of the day I feel I have to put my selfishness aside and allow the players to do what they enjoy within the limitations of the game. Because it's a game where people don't have to think about their own realities, and maybe this helps them in one way or another.
Every time I logged into Valheim, people in my guild kept telling me that they'd knock down my house cos they thought it was ugly.
In the end, I just knocked it down myself and stopped playing.
I really appreciate reading this. I have this exact same attitude and it really is nice that there are others who agree. Just because certain design choices (especially cosmetics) do not match my taste, I know there are other people who do like it. I don't believe that my tastes and opinions should matter more than someone elses, especially when it comes to cosmetics.
I understand people won't understand this viewpoint but to me it makes sense - We are about to enter a world that is completely made up. Nothing will ever be as "cool" in real life as any worlds in video games if you have the right imagination. I don't see Verra as a world untouched, ripe with cultural architecture....I see it as a world that we are entering and building it up how we want to build it up. With the thought process, I am perfectly ok seeing a giant pink mushroom at the top of a snowy mountain top. This even makes it better for me.
On the flip side, if I am playing a single player game, I fully expect to be immersed into a world that is exactly what the developers want me to see. mmorpgs have no place for immersion imo. The lore is cool AF but it's hard to be immersed in any mmorpg when you are one message, one voice line, one player name away from being reminded you are in an mmorpg.
*Mr.xXbootyclapper69Xz starts dancing* = immersion destroyed.
So because some things are going to non-immersive we might as well throw out all immersion? I hate that you keep using this argument. It's completely counterproductive.
You SHOULD be arguing for immersion to be pushed to compete with the anti-immersive things that might pop up.
You hate "Mr.xXbootyclapper69Xz"?
Argue for a better naming system.
You don't like name customization being limited?
Argue instead for a restricted required surname/nickname and the ability to show only surnames/nicknames.
And if we can't have any of these options, then lets make the rest of the game immersive to make up for it.
This argument I keep seeing of "If it's not done 100% it's not worth even adding it in part" is the most backwards thinking argument I've ever seen.
Thankyou! I'd been trying to come up with a good character name!
Remember to have neon green hair and play a tank but refuse to call it such.
Did I say to throw out all immersion? OFC I want to see themed mobs in specific biomes, themed gear cosmetics, lore spewing from every corner of Verra, quest chains that take us through world exploration, and NPC's with dialogue that allow us to diver deeper into the world.....but at what cost?
Who are you to tell someone what to name their IN GAME character? Forced immersion is not immersion. You MUST name your character with a proper "high fantasy" first and last name or face being reported! Good sir, did you place that breezy oasis freehold in the dense forest area!? Hubbabaloo! A level ONE....with that cosmetic on!? WHAT IS GOING ON?!?.
YOU are taking the immersion away from me as my form of immersion includes all of these things. Again, the type of immersion you are wanting has ZERO place in an mmorpg. It just isn't possible at a level that would still be fun. When you start to sacrifice fun for a squeaky wheel, that's when you lose.
For game development as a whole.
Bruh, when did I ever argue this.
All I did was give examples of possible arguments.
I even added a side-option to said possible argument addressing exactly what your complaint is here.
Are you ok?