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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
This is an interesting point that could potentially be a solution.
Instead of there being primary tanks and less-good tanks, why not Single Target tanks and multi-target tanks? The idea for this would be that the single target tanks are able to take on massive hits with well timed defensives allowing them to dance on the point of a knife with extremely powerful singular enemies. Then you have Multi-target tanks, those that can mitigate sustained damage over a long period of time with auras, debuffs, and other abilities. They would be the defense against a death by a thousand cuts, while the single target tanks focus on blocking body-shattering blows.
In relation to the original post, I could see a Brood Warden being a Multi-target tank. One perfect ability for this would be a debuff aura of tiny insects that harrier and annoy the crap out of enemies within, reducing the damage they deal by a small amount or giving them a chance to do glancing blows with their attacks. Maybe his primary tank pet is a brood mother that can cast out a cone of broodlings that latch on to foes, draining life from them and returning it to the brood mother. There are plenty of cool things that you could do with this multi-target tank style in mind.
So, the reasoning for a potential split between single target tanks and multi target tanks is to reduce the fixation on one particular class being the best at tanking. Sure there will still be those that argue about who's the best at each role, but this approach alleviates the need to balance ALL tanks for ALL tanking scenarios. Things are taken an additional step further if you add in dodge tanks vs block tanks vs health tanks vs kiting tanks vs resist tanks.
Basically if players are allowed to choose more than TANK role, and instead between multiple types of tank roles, I believe this will keep things more balanced and less "min-maxy".
Brood Wardens might be able to have their tanking Summons on multiple targets, sure.
We can't say for sure, as they might go about it attempting to let all tank archetype classes fully tank while allowing choice of gear and talents let you specialize in different types of tanking. I think the worst thing they could do is try to make all the tank archetypes, even if they are primaries, full on all purpose tanks.
This is something I would expect the developers to take in to consideration with the classes that have tank as their primary.
Of the 8 tank/* classes, I expect one to excel at single target, four of them to excel at different combinations of single target or AE with physical or magical primary damage, I expect one to be avoidance based, I expect one to be able to function to some degree without a healer/* present in the group, I expect one to be able to function from a distance, and I am unsure what I expect tank/bard to be at this point.
With 8 primary tank classes that all need to have a place to shine, they are already kind of stretching things a little too thin imo. They can't start trying to make a 9th class have it's own specific niche along the same lines.
All 8 classes of the Tank Primary Archetype will be viable main tanks at endgame. That is the current design.
I think you bring a valid point that surrounds viability which targets my second question of my OP.
At the end of the day, if something is not viable it should not be forced in end game content for the many reasons you’ve explained throughout the thread.
We won’t know until we get more information but since this is mild theory crafting I think the viability will depend on if the Brood Warden, based on augments, will have competitive tanking cooldowns comparable to a primary tank. I don’t think they’ll have an equal number of tools as a primary tank but if they have enough to be viable than it’s an option. That is something that can be easily measured because eventually we can literally just compare abilities or passives with each other and see if it keeps up.
They’ve stated multiple times they don’t believe in addons like damage meters so measuring % probably won’t be a thing either. It will just come down to whether classes have the tools to do their job and the skill behind the players. It’s possible to have a tank class with a subpar player controlling it be outperformed by a tank summoner who might have a few leas tools but makes up for it in skill.
As to your questions as to why a guild would bring a tank summoner to a raid? Well, for starters not enough tanks on raid day or tanks can’t make it for some reason. if proven to be viable because maybe the summoner player has proven themselves, that’s why the summoner worked hard to show his skill and it accomplishes the game fantasy of the role they chose to help fill that role.
Summoner DPS or heal will always be useful in end game content. I just want to see the tank get some love. Most likely they’ll be able to do group content viably but I can hope for some viability in end game content. Most games don’t have summoner tanking viable passes leveling or farming.
These are some great ideas 😎
(And is baseless bravado in any case)
Secondary Archetypes are not designed to fill Primary Archetype roles.
So...Summoner/Tank is not going to be on par with a Tank/Summoner.
Tank/Summoner can replace a Tank/Tank as main tank.
Summoner/Tank cannot replace a Tank/Summoner as main tank.
As long as a Summoner/Tank can fulfill the Summoner role, they will get some love.
I don’t believe the Summoner/Tank will ever be able to fill in the main tank role in end game content. The whole OP was just to speculate whether they’ll ever be viable as an off tank in certain instances if they went Brood Warden. I just haven’t seen tank focused summoners thrive in other games in the end game. Just curious to see what they’ll look like when all the info is out there.
The Brood Warden could have a tank support play style giving tanks or group members survival buffs, maybe they can summon a giant tank pet that allows them to off tank to some capacity or maybe have a swarm of smaller pets that mitigate damage. Or they’ll just fall under the same tropes of other games where they’re only really useful as a farming class in some open world areas or a leveling bot. I pray for the former ideas than the latter.
The main issue I see at present is the lack of goads/taunts. The Tank Main must be the tank because the skills all have threat generation in the moves (all except one move at level 10). It means that other classes won't be able to surpass a Tank Main in threat generation unless you gimp yourself on Gems (Choosing threat gems instead of DPS or some other Gems).
In my mind, if you can tank group content, you can tank any content. I know so little about Summoner right now that I can't be certain of anything but if a Summoner can act like a Feral Druid then the Summoner would be a good tank. Someone else stated there is already 8 Tank Classes though so do we really need more than 8 Tank classes and would someone who wants to tank take a different class than a Tank Main and flavour class?
I don't often theory craft with such little information available. I also don't feel confident that we can cycle aggro between Tank Mains let alone Tank Pets. It comes down to threat tables and player skill. Without a goad or taunt then threat tables become rather limited without the ability to cycle aggro.
They can choose a tank-type Summons and they can add tank augments on top of that.