My mind set on this is different, i can imagine a ethereal falcon that is part of your attacks rather than actually having a pet. I have the same idea with fighter and summoner where you can change your skills to summon blades in your skill to attack.
As examples of what i kind of mean in summon blades, I'd view falcon in the same way where you might summon a bird that does one attack and fades away. Else both would be a summoner with lingering mobs that fight with you. Which doesn't really feel like skills being augmented but rather then just being a weaker version of a summoner where you get a bird.
Thats where augment schools come into play. I actually mention a number of skills that would summon a spirit falcon and have it fade away shortly after its use.
As for "weaker summoner with a falcon" Summoners are mages, they will deal dmg in a very different way than what a ranger will. One is also mostly magical, while the other is mostly physical, so a ranger dealing a majority of their dmg with their bow and having a more-or-less untargetable pet/minion aid them further will be drastically different from a summoner using spells and directly controlling a multitude of pets and actually having to micro-manage their health pools.
Future Falconer, Top 1% PvPer and owner of Big and Beautiful Homesteads
This is the most wrong you can be. Summoners are summoners. Mages are mages. Literally different classes.
You're taking it way too literal. They will be MAGICAL dmg dealers/tanks/healers with some physical attributes from the summons they use.
Will they be magical damage dealers? What if their summons are 70% of their dps, and the summons attacking with claws? They will be a mana managment class, sure. But as any class can weild and weapon, assuming the damage type of the summoner, and not assuming that depends on what they summon, seems like a stretch.
But yeah, im mostly just trolling with my first post.
This is the most wrong you can be. Summoners are summoners. Mages are mages. Literally different classes.
You're taking it way too literal. They will be MAGICAL dmg dealers/tanks/healers with some physical attributes from the summons they use.
Will they be magical damage dealers? What if their summons are 70% of their dps, and the summons attacking with claws? They will be a mana managment class, sure. But as any class can weild and weapon, assuming the damage type of the summoner, and not assuming that depends on what they summon, seems like a stretch.
But yeah, im mostly just trolling with my first post.
From what Steven has said in previous livestreams. The direct character themselves are a magic user who will use that magic to summon powerful entities to do their bidding. So your summons will be what makes your class do what it does, but your character's slotted abilities will always be a magic user until further notice.
Future Falconer, Top 1% PvPer and owner of Big and Beautiful Homesteads
This is the most wrong you can be. Summoners are summoners. Mages are mages. Literally different classes.
You're taking it way too literal. They will be MAGICAL dmg dealers/tanks/healers with some physical attributes from the summons they use.
Will they be magical damage dealers? What if their summons are 70% of their dps, and the summons attacking with claws? They will be a mana managment class, sure. But as any class can weild and weapon, assuming the damage type of the summoner, and not assuming that depends on what they summon, seems like a stretch.
But yeah, im mostly just trolling with my first post.
From what Steven has said in previous livestreams. The direct character themselves are a magic user who will use that magic to summon powerful entities to do their bidding. So your summons will be what makes your class do what it does, but your character's slotted abilities will always be a magic user until further notice.
I mean if you want to argue semantics with me we can... the summoner is a magic class, sure. It will have magic abilities, sure. If i have an attack, "insect swarm" where i summon insects, and they swarm you. Does that deal magic damage, because im a magic class? Or does it deal physical because insects are biting you?
My mind set on this is different, i can imagine a ethereal falcon that is part of your attacks rather than actually having a pet. I have the same idea with fighter and summoner where you can change your skills to summon blades in your skill to attack.
As examples of what i kind of mean in summon blades, I'd view falcon in the same way where you might summon a bird that does one attack and fades away. Else both would be a summoner with lingering mobs that fight with you. Which doesn't really feel like skills being augmented but rather then just being a weaker version of a summoner where you get a bird.
Thats where augment schools come into play. I actually mention a number of skills that would summon a spirit falcon and have it fade away shortly after its use.
As for "weaker summoner with a falcon" Summoners are mages, they will deal dmg in a very different way than what a ranger will. One is also mostly magical, while the other is mostly physical, so a ranger dealing a majority of their dmg with their bow and having a more-or-less untargetable pet/minion aid them further will be drastically different from a summoner using spells and directly controlling a multitude of pets and actually having to micro-manage their health pools.
I would almost argue the oppisite of this take. Attacking a summoners pets, is their risk reward of having pets. For a ranger to get an untargetable bird, that he summons repeatedly for abilities, makes no sense in a game with a summoner class that designed and balanced pets to begin with
This is the most wrong you can be. Summoners are summoners. Mages are mages. Literally different classes.
You're taking it way too literal. They will be MAGICAL dmg dealers/tanks/healers with some physical attributes from the summons they use.
Will they be magical damage dealers? What if their summons are 70% of their dps, and the summons attacking with claws? They will be a mana managment class, sure. But as any class can weild and weapon, assuming the damage type of the summoner, and not assuming that depends on what they summon, seems like a stretch.
But yeah, im mostly just trolling with my first post.
From what Steven has said in previous livestreams. The direct character themselves are a magic user who will use that magic to summon powerful entities to do their bidding. So your summons will be what makes your class do what it does, but your character's slotted abilities will always be a magic user until further notice.
I mean if you want to argue semantics with me we can... the summoner is a magic class, sure. It will have magic abilities, sure. If i have an attack, "insect swarm" where i summon insects, and they swarm you. Does that deal magic damage, because im a magic class? Or does it deal physical because insects are biting you?
If we look specifically at Beastmaster (Summoner/ranger) its quite clear that it will deal physical dmg (unless the devs decide nah cuz its their game). Summoner will be the only archetype that can choose between just about any class they want, but only that class. Will you choose physical, healing, tanking, etc? At the end of the day tho, if YOU -The player- dies, your summons despawn (unconfirmed). If your pets can tank and heal *by your command* then they're useless if you're dead. So you, as a magic user, are still just as important as your physical/magical/healing/tanking pets.
Future Falconer, Top 1% PvPer and owner of Big and Beautiful Homesteads
My mind set on this is different, i can imagine a ethereal falcon that is part of your attacks rather than actually having a pet. I have the same idea with fighter and summoner where you can change your skills to summon blades in your skill to attack.
As examples of what i kind of mean in summon blades, I'd view falcon in the same way where you might summon a bird that does one attack and fades away. Else both would be a summoner with lingering mobs that fight with you. Which doesn't really feel like skills being augmented but rather then just being a weaker version of a summoner where you get a bird.
Thats where augment schools come into play. I actually mention a number of skills that would summon a spirit falcon and have it fade away shortly after its use.
As for "weaker summoner with a falcon" Summoners are mages, they will deal dmg in a very different way than what a ranger will. One is also mostly magical, while the other is mostly physical, so a ranger dealing a majority of their dmg with their bow and having a more-or-less untargetable pet/minion aid them further will be drastically different from a summoner using spells and directly controlling a multitude of pets and actually having to micro-manage their health pools.
I would almost argue the oppisite of this take. Attacking a summoners pets, is their risk reward of having pets. For a ranger to get an untargetable bird, that he summons repeatedly for abilities, makes no sense in a game with a summoner class that designed and balanced pets to begin with
Well who says the falcon wont be targetable? Thats why i said "more-or-less" because we dont really know until the devs give us that information to play with. This is a theory Afterall. I agree that a falcon could be killed and have to be respawned, but if its significance is solely an additional dmg number with an animation, than probably not. I personally WOULD love for my falcon to be more of a true combat companion than a pet, but by no means should a sub-summoner need to feel as strong as a summoner main.
Future Falconer, Top 1% PvPer and owner of Big and Beautiful Homesteads
I stand by my frist argument. Summoners are not mages.
If it uses magic, its a mage. Period. Mage is a general term used for a *magic user*. a cleric is a healing MAGE, a warlock is a MAGE summoner, so on and so on, but believe whatever you wish.
Future Falconer, Top 1% PvPer and owner of Big and Beautiful Homesteads
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited August 2022
All of the Primary Archetypes use some magic, but..
The Martial/Physical group is: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, Tank
The Arcane/Magic group is: Bard, Cleric, Mage, Summoner
Summoner is in the Arcane/Magic group.
I expect a Falconer might have an Arcane attack similar to the Tank's Javelin or the Gighter's Hammer Strike - but in the form of a bird/falcon.
It's also possible that a Falconer can Summon an actual animal/bird/falcon that does Physical Damage, but that would be an augment, rather than an Active Skill, so...I don't think the augment Summons would last long enough to be considered a pet. It would be a relatively temporary Summons... most likely.
Hello everyone, TrUSivraj here! I'm a huge fanatic of the potential class augments for Ranger/Summoner, also known as Falconer, so I thought I'd make a well-thought-out creative approach at what I think those skills could look like and do! With that, lets begin!
UPDATE #3: Adding theoretical Augment schools to the Summoner sub-archetype, further diversifying what a falconer will be able to do!
Hi TrUSivraj - I like these ideas. I did a theorycraft for Bard and each secondary archetype. This spreadsheet format might be a good way to express your breakdown too, so far just for 3 skills.
Hello everyone, TrUSivraj here! I'm a huge fanatic of the potential class augments for Ranger/Summoner, also known as Falconer, so I thought I'd make a well-thought-out creative approach at what I think those skills could look like and do! With that, lets begin!
UPDATE #3: Adding theoretical Augment schools to the Summoner sub-archetype, further diversifying what a falconer will be able to do!
Hi TrUSivraj - I like these ideas. I did a theorycraft for Bard and each secondary archetype. This spreadsheet format might be a good way to express your breakdown too, so far just for 3 skills.
I also have my eyes set on the Falconer. IF they get owls. I need it to be an owl. :X
... Worst case scenario, imma just go Scout instead. :]
I have a strong feeling that we will be able to skin our falcon, similar to what was discussed about summoner pets as well. Too soon to say for sure, but im hopeful!
Future Falconer, Top 1% PvPer and owner of Big and Beautiful Homesteads
Alpha 2 is nearing arrival! Though falconer won't be available, I will be creating more theorycraft builds around the ranger skills we will obtain. Looking forward to chatting with you all!
Future Falconer, Top 1% PvPer and owner of Big and Beautiful Homesteads
Alpha 2 is nearing arrival! Though falconer won't be available, I will be creating more theorycraft builds around the ranger skills we will obtain. Looking forward to chatting with you all!
actually.... it might be there at the start of a2, if we look at what steven said recently
NEW Official ranger skills were posted on the wiki, and I have created all new Falconer augments based on the current skills shown! I will create augments for all future ranger skills as well, so let me know your opinions on them!
Skill list is on the first page!
Future Falconer, Top 1% PvPer and owner of Big and Beautiful Homesteads
First off thanks to TrUSivraj for taking the time to write this up. It's not easy to try to balance a class but it is interesting to see a creative interpretation of the class.
At first read, here are some considerations to your ideas:
Air Strike - not sure this base skill should have an AOE effect unless poisonous fungal spores are included as an augment.
Imbue Ammo: Weighted - should have a shortened range given the weight.
Raining Death - I've seen this skill in many games and I don't like the lack of realism. Where do the multitude of arrows conceivably come from? It's always a forced attempt at creating an AOE ability in my opinion. I'd prefer a Sweeping Rapid Fire type skill.
Nature's Call - by the name, I thought you were going to force the enemy to take a bio-break.
Camouflage - Only a rogue should be able to go full stealth. I think ranger should have a camouflage attack that does greater surprise damage but once the attack is completed, the ranger can't camouflage within [120] seconds of its last attack.
Quickshot - what type of debuff did you intend to apply and what's the rationale?
White Rain is... lol.
Generally, I think there are more opportunities for debuffs that can be applied by a Falconer. A Falcon's screech skill could potentially distract, stagger or even stun.
While I like the idea of root effects as part of the class, I think these should be made as a low chance (ie. 15%) to root so that not all PVP is done while rooted.
Lastly, as a general comment, I'm not yet clear on the conceptual theory of how caster augments work on non-casting classes. I'd hope there is some logic to this. As a result, I'm not sure Conjury should exist as an augmentation school.
First off thanks to TrUSivraj for taking the time to write this up. It's not easy to try to balance a class but it is interesting to see a creative interpretation of the class.
At first read, here are some considerations to your ideas:
Air Strike - not sure this base skill should have an AOE effect unless poisonous fungal spores are included as an augment.
Imbue Ammo: Weighted - should have a shortened range given the weight.
Raining Death - I've seen this skill in many games and I don't like the lack of realism. Where do the multitude of arrows conceivably come from? It's always a forced attempt at creating an AOE ability in my opinion. I'd prefer a Sweeping Rapid Fire type skill.
Nature's Call - by the name, I thought you were going to force the enemy to take a bio-break.
Camouflage - Only a rogue should be able to go full stealth. I think ranger should have a camouflage attack that does greater surprise damage but once the attack is completed, the ranger can't camouflage within [120] seconds of its last attack.
Quickshot - what type of debuff did you intend to apply and what's the rationale?
White Rain is... lol.
Generally, I think there are more opportunities for debuffs that can be applied by a Falconer. A Falcon's screech skill could potentially distract, stagger or even stun.
While I like the idea of root effects as part of the class, I think these should be made as a low chance (ie. 15%) to root so that not all PVP is done while rooted.
Lastly, as a general comment, I'm not yet clear on the conceptual theory of how caster augments work on non-casting classes. I'd hope there is some logic to this. As a result, I'm not sure Conjury should exist as an augmentation school.
Thank you for your response! I noticed that some skills you had opinions about aren't mine. Many of the skills you critiqued are actually official skills already! The only abilities I included are the augments underneath them. Camouflage for example, WILL be a ranger skill ( its actually a pretty standard ability for archers in most MMOs, WoW for a prime example.)
EDIT: I added a disclaimer mentioning that all base skills are confirmed by their official wiki website for AoC until further notice (A2 testing specifically)!
Future Falconer, Top 1% PvPer and owner of Big and Beautiful Homesteads
Changed "White Rain" to "White Death" for you naughty boys and girls out there.
Changed "Natures Call" effect from leaving traps and full immunity to cleansing each attack you make and immunity only to DoTs and curses.
Future Falconer, Top 1% PvPer and owner of Big and Beautiful Homesteads
Comments
Thats where augment schools come into play. I actually mention a number of skills that would summon a spirit falcon and have it fade away shortly after its use.
As for "weaker summoner with a falcon" Summoners are mages, they will deal dmg in a very different way than what a ranger will. One is also mostly magical, while the other is mostly physical, so a ranger dealing a majority of their dmg with their bow and having a more-or-less untargetable pet/minion aid them further will be drastically different from a summoner using spells and directly controlling a multitude of pets and actually having to micro-manage their health pools.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuU1txumPQ5PqdU1D9cPhIg
https://twitch.tv/trusivraj
This is the most wrong you can be. Summoners are summoners. Mages are mages. Literally different classes.
You're taking it way too literal. They will be MAGICAL dmg dealers/tanks/healers with some physical attributes from the summons they use.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuU1txumPQ5PqdU1D9cPhIg
https://twitch.tv/trusivraj
Will they be magical damage dealers? What if their summons are 70% of their dps, and the summons attacking with claws? They will be a mana managment class, sure. But as any class can weild and weapon, assuming the damage type of the summoner, and not assuming that depends on what they summon, seems like a stretch.
But yeah, im mostly just trolling with my first post.
From what Steven has said in previous livestreams. The direct character themselves are a magic user who will use that magic to summon powerful entities to do their bidding. So your summons will be what makes your class do what it does, but your character's slotted abilities will always be a magic user until further notice.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuU1txumPQ5PqdU1D9cPhIg
https://twitch.tv/trusivraj
I mean if you want to argue semantics with me we can... the summoner is a magic class, sure. It will have magic abilities, sure. If i have an attack, "insect swarm" where i summon insects, and they swarm you. Does that deal magic damage, because im a magic class? Or does it deal physical because insects are biting you?
https://tolas.fandom.com/wiki/Schools_of_Magic
I would almost argue the oppisite of this take. Attacking a summoners pets, is their risk reward of having pets. For a ranger to get an untargetable bird, that he summons repeatedly for abilities, makes no sense in a game with a summoner class that designed and balanced pets to begin with
If we look specifically at Beastmaster (Summoner/ranger) its quite clear that it will deal physical dmg (unless the devs decide nah cuz its their game). Summoner will be the only archetype that can choose between just about any class they want, but only that class. Will you choose physical, healing, tanking, etc? At the end of the day tho, if YOU -The player- dies, your summons despawn (unconfirmed). If your pets can tank and heal *by your command* then they're useless if you're dead. So you, as a magic user, are still just as important as your physical/magical/healing/tanking pets.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuU1txumPQ5PqdU1D9cPhIg
https://twitch.tv/trusivraj
Well who says the falcon wont be targetable? Thats why i said "more-or-less" because we dont really know until the devs give us that information to play with. This is a theory Afterall. I agree that a falcon could be killed and have to be respawned, but if its significance is solely an additional dmg number with an animation, than probably not. I personally WOULD love for my falcon to be more of a true combat companion than a pet, but by no means should a sub-summoner need to feel as strong as a summoner main.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuU1txumPQ5PqdU1D9cPhIg
https://twitch.tv/trusivraj
If it uses magic, its a mage. Period. Mage is a general term used for a *magic user*. a cleric is a healing MAGE, a warlock is a MAGE summoner, so on and so on, but believe whatever you wish.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuU1txumPQ5PqdU1D9cPhIg
https://twitch.tv/trusivraj
The Martial/Physical group is: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, Tank
The Arcane/Magic group is: Bard, Cleric, Mage, Summoner
Summoner is in the Arcane/Magic group.
I expect a Falconer might have an Arcane attack similar to the Tank's Javelin or the Gighter's Hammer Strike - but in the form of a bird/falcon.
It's also possible that a Falconer can Summon an actual animal/bird/falcon that does Physical Damage, but that would be an augment, rather than an Active Skill, so...I don't think the augment Summons would last long enough to be considered a pet. It would be a relatively temporary Summons... most likely.
Hi TrUSivraj - I like these ideas. I did a theorycraft for Bard and each secondary archetype. This spreadsheet format might be a good way to express your breakdown too, so far just for 3 skills.
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/53138/bard-secondary-class-and-augments-theories-aoe-sleep-group-run-speed-group-melee-haste#latest
Thanks for this!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuU1txumPQ5PqdU1D9cPhIg
https://twitch.tv/trusivraj
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuU1txumPQ5PqdU1D9cPhIg
https://twitch.tv/trusivraj
Tthe falcon should be killable while in free flight mode, the player should control it and even attack others with it and attack other falcons
I'm done with ethereal pets and pets that can't be directly controlled and used in special ways
Falcon should also pick loot for me
I should be able to ninja loot stuff from far away with my falcon and then run away laughing at the carebears
... Worst case scenario, imma just go Scout instead. :]
I have a strong feeling that we will be able to skin our falcon, similar to what was discussed about summoner pets as well. Too soon to say for sure, but im hopeful!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuU1txumPQ5PqdU1D9cPhIg
https://twitch.tv/trusivraj
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuU1txumPQ5PqdU1D9cPhIg
https://twitch.tv/trusivraj
actually.... it might be there at the start of a2, if we look at what steven said recently
Skill list is on the first page!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuU1txumPQ5PqdU1D9cPhIg
https://twitch.tv/trusivraj
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuU1txumPQ5PqdU1D9cPhIg
https://twitch.tv/trusivraj
At first read, here are some considerations to your ideas:
Air Strike - not sure this base skill should have an AOE effect unless poisonous fungal spores are included as an augment.
Imbue Ammo: Weighted - should have a shortened range given the weight.
Raining Death - I've seen this skill in many games and I don't like the lack of realism. Where do the multitude of arrows conceivably come from? It's always a forced attempt at creating an AOE ability in my opinion. I'd prefer a Sweeping Rapid Fire type skill.
Nature's Call - by the name, I thought you were going to force the enemy to take a bio-break.
Camouflage - Only a rogue should be able to go full stealth. I think ranger should have a camouflage attack that does greater surprise damage but once the attack is completed, the ranger can't camouflage within [120] seconds of its last attack.
Quickshot - what type of debuff did you intend to apply and what's the rationale?
White Rain is... lol.
Generally, I think there are more opportunities for debuffs that can be applied by a Falconer. A Falcon's screech skill could potentially distract, stagger or even stun.
While I like the idea of root effects as part of the class, I think these should be made as a low chance (ie. 15%) to root so that not all PVP is done while rooted.
Lastly, as a general comment, I'm not yet clear on the conceptual theory of how caster augments work on non-casting classes. I'd hope there is some logic to this. As a result, I'm not sure Conjury should exist as an augmentation school.
Thank you for your response! I noticed that some skills you had opinions about aren't mine. Many of the skills you critiqued are actually official skills already! The only abilities I included are the augments underneath them. Camouflage for example, WILL be a ranger skill ( its actually a pretty standard ability for archers in most MMOs, WoW for a prime example.)
EDIT: I added a disclaimer mentioning that all base skills are confirmed by their official wiki website for AoC until further notice (A2 testing specifically)!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuU1txumPQ5PqdU1D9cPhIg
https://twitch.tv/trusivraj
Changed "Natures Call" effect from leaving traps and full immunity to cleansing each attack you make and immunity only to DoTs and curses.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuU1txumPQ5PqdU1D9cPhIg
https://twitch.tv/trusivraj
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuU1txumPQ5PqdU1D9cPhIg
https://twitch.tv/trusivraj
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuU1txumPQ5PqdU1D9cPhIg
https://twitch.tv/trusivraj