If there were a training room to measure DPS/HPS would you use it?

Bardtic

Inixia wrote: »

I'm surprised how many people seem to be conflating having a simple training dummy with their arguments for raid dps parsing. Those two are... not very similar at all haha they have very different roles.

A training dummy is just there to see what works in a convenient way without having to go out and try the same thing against monsters, it isn't going to cause 'every guild to be elitist', kill socialization or to only care about min maxing. The person on the training dummy is usually just some average kid trying his best to test a new spec. There are some really wild fears being created around here over something pretty small.

I think the issue is if there is a DPS meter associated with the Combat Dummy when there isnt one in the rest of the game.

Inixia

Bardtic wrote: »

I think the issue is if there is a DPS meter associated with the Combat Dummy when there isnt one in the rest of the game.

sure but it should be a non-issue. unless people are arguing that *any* combat information will ruin the game via some sort of weird slippery slope?? There's a big difference between using a training dummy in conjunction with your combat log or in-game tool to test new specs in a safe controlled way away from monsters, and using dps parsers mid-raid to set goals for yourself on a attempt by attempt basis and actively call out mechanics for your team. Its like... night and day.

Noaani

ViBunja wrote: »

But most people come from WoW. So you bet that's going to happen, DPS meters also helped in the destruction of socializing, and just created the meta of kicking the person who can't DPS instead of talking and improving with their party/raid.

Actually, what created that was the fact that if you kicked someone from a group or raid, you could replace that player in an instant, and were likely to never see that player again.

Basically, what caused that behavior, what caused the toxicity in WoW, was the LFG/LFR system.

You take away a group leaders ability to replace a person, you make it so that they know they will have to see that person again, and all of a sudden you make it so that group leader doesn't really have the option of booting that player, even if they are under-performing.

If a game is going to treat players as replaceable parts, players can't be surprised when other players treat them as such as well.

PotatoMasherAnnie

Lord Mathis wrote: »

Just a side note it might be cool if guild halls could have their own training room. Possibly make it more advanced then just dummies like dummies on tracks that move around to simulate basic boss level mechanics. Guilds could meet up at the halls with noobies and take them through the ropes showing of mechanics and helping them practice their rotation. That and a designated guild sparing area would be awesome additions

I would play the heck out of that!

PotatoMasherAnnie

Dygz wrote: »

There are people who have said that if Tank/Tank gives the highest DPS, that's what raiders will demand - even though the design is for any of the 8 classes to be viable main tanks for endgame content.
Because the goal is not simply to defeat the encounter(s), but to do so with maximum efficiency as dictated by the numbers.
"You think you're good, but I can show you by the numbers that you aren't as good as you think you are."

Very good point! I never even thought about people using the knowledge to reroll their class, but especially in a game like AOC where there are so many combinations between the primary and secondary archetype it would definitely happen. It will be impossible to balance all 64 combinations so there would likely be some classes people wouldn't play. You only have to look as far as mythic raiding in WoW to know how boring that gets, when people stack a specific class because it does 3% more damage than the others.

Marcet

Yes a training room with dummies and all that, I like it.

Dygz

Inixia wrote: »

I'm surprised how many people seem to be conflating having a simple training dummy with their arguments for raid dps parsing. Those two are... not very similar at all haha they have very different roles.

I felt that was more of a tangent than a conflation.

Gubiak

Absolutely yes. Getting better at dealing damage gives me a sense of accomplishment. It allows me to help my friends and dunk on my enemies if I am good at the game.

Dygz

PotatoMasherAnnie wrote: »

Very good point! I never even thought about people using the knowledge to reroll their class, but especially in a game like AOC where there are so many combinations between the primary and secondary archetype it would definitely happen. It will be impossible to balance all 64 combinations so there would likely be some classes people wouldn't play. You only have to look as far as mythic raiding in WoW to know how boring that gets, when people stack a specific class because it does 3% more damage than the others.

In Ashes, whatever balance will really be with the Primary Archetypes, rather than all 64 classes.
And, even then, it's rock, paper, scissors. Group balance rather than individual/solo balance.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

There are people who have said that if Tank/Tank gives the highest DPS, that's what raiders will demand - even though the design is for any of the 8 classes to be viable main tanks for endgame content.
Because the goal is not simply to defeat the encounter(s), but to do so with maximum efficiency as dictated by the numbers.
"You think you're good, but I can show you by the numbers that you aren't as good as you think you are."

Despite over a year of discussion on this topic, this right here just continues to display your total lack of understanding of what combat trackers are used for.

If one guild wants to show off to another, the only thing that is valid to do so are mobs that have been killed, and the time it takes to kill those mobs. Other data is used as a means to that end, not as a means to show off in and of itself.

The fact that you STILL don't understand this is a testiment to how little attention you are paying to the discussion on these forums in regards to objective data in general, despite your insistance on spreading your uninformed opinion all over the place like some sort of airbourn pollutant.

ItzGhostt

Im a min/max whore.. always have been. Boasting and trashing people on the meters was a known thing for me. Its entertaining when everyone in your group knows you and its the SQUAD.. But in larger groups its a turn off for a majority of people that want to just play an MMO for what it really is. I am all for this DPS blindfold and NO DUMMY unless its just a wooden stick to practice rotations on and maybe not show any numbers or HP. But someone else stated this, with a boss that's not just spank and tank, mechanics and a perfect rotation hardly exist except a few times a fight in a pooling window if you have that depending on the boss. As a raid leader in vanilla WoW clearing NAXX - Dps meters wern't that important and wasnt a leading factor for me (althought I glanced at them and had my moments) it was more positioning and wipe causes unless the BOSS was literally a dps check. Im ok with both but as I get older I think it has caused more problems then the drive it did for me in my prime gaming days.. Being second or third pushed me to try harder and focus more.. Seems today it just seperates the community as does a raider io. I brought myself back to WoW only a few times since Vanilla and every single time I try to do mythic plus they look at my io and once I convince them I know what I am doing usually I out dps these people with a higher IO because its jsut a number and honestly they dont know who I am or anything its just a BS stat. Rating people over this stat without performance is garbage in an MMO and has no place for it. I would rather have someone in my raid doing 3% less dps with a good attitude and willing to help the other members excel then some asshole talking smack and bringing the morale down.

My 2 cents if it matters - GhosttLG Twitch

Tragnar

When people choose to form a group that is supposed to take up to several hours they usually tend to ask you for your game CV, because taking several people that literally have no idea what they are doing can transform a chill afternoon farm session in some raid/dungeon into a wiping nightmare that can just utterly destroy your whole enjoyment from it - especially if it is expected to use ingame currency for buffs.

I've been there, done that - and if I can I just avoid it by running only with guild then that is what I do. Of course if the content is super easy and I can literally solo carry everyone to the endboss then I dont have a problem with that if I get out of that run what I went in there for.