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Verbal NDA lifted - Discussion thread

2

Comments

  • angelicshiyaangelicshiya Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I love the cave quest.
    Hint: READ THE QUEST!
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    A wizard is never late, he arrives precisely when he means to.
  • SathragoSathrago Member, Alpha Two
    Ragecon wrote: »
    Diamaht wrote: »
    Between work I was only able to get in about 3 or 4 hours but the game looked and felt great. The art, music and environment were just as good live as they are in the videos so that was nice to see.

    It would be hard for me to talk about combat since it was obvious the system was not in place for this test. One thing I did enjoy was the feel of character movement. It did not feel floaty, your character felt like it had real weight. That was another worry I had and it was assuaged.

    I was skeptical about character collision being active in this game, but it actually seemed to add a realistic feel to large groups.

    So far, so good. The game looks like it is taking shape to be exactly what was advertised. Now we just need to see, then break, then fix, then shatter, then repair the combat and crafting systems.

    Wonder what systems they will have to keep large toxic groups from surrounding a player so they can’t move anywhere 🤔

    I think this game has the best system already in place. Needing a social community. So if some group of toxic players start trying to circle you up and bully you around, you call in your friends and allies to deal with it. Create a place that is good to you and can protect you.
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  • halbarzhalbarz Member
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    halbarz wrote: »

    Awesome.

    As a follow-up question, did you see any specific benefits to upgrading certain nodes? I ask because I am curious how nodes will be balanced so that not every node at the sea will be maxed out and the inland ones wouldn't be considered.

    I did take the time to look for any differences in the nodes. I was specifically looking at vendor selection. I did not notice anything there I was mostly focused on plate though. The quests were similar between nodes, but different. There was just so much I wanted to do it was hard to take stock of everything.

    I could have easily spent a week testing every little thing in the starting area, but sadly the servers were only up during the day. Maybe that is a good thing though because I got a lot of sleep this weekend. Something I was not expecting. The feels when you use sleep to time warp...

    Thank you, for your insight :D

    @all A1 Testers, what were some of the "worst" bugs you ran into? :)
  • AsgerrAsgerr Member, Alpha Two
    I was reading some interesting feedback on the sub reddit as well.

    I've got some questions about some of the points raised there:
    • Some said the combat was not fun at all at this time. What are your thoughts?
    • Some were talking about the open world dungeons and their size and mob variety
    • How was the experience of death like?
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  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2021
    Combat was OK for testing an Alpha.
    Playing a Cleric had some attacks and some heals.
    When I duoed with a Tank, he killed stuff way faster... as in, I barely had time to get in an attack before stuff our level was dead, so.. I ended up just healing. That felt like what I might expect a Tank and Cleric duo would play out. We were able to find a spot were mobs were 2-3 times our level and mow them down at a nice pace.

    This Alpha was really for testing core systems, mostly networking and optimization. Combat was fine for that. The Level 15 raid that Steven led us on felt fun. I think we played it like a zerg - we didn't need strategies to survive - we had enough numbers.
    But, having a bunch of people on mounts racing to the attack locations and pummeling the raid boss was fun.

    Everything needs a lot more work, but that is to be expected for an Alpha.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2021
    Asgerr wrote: »
    Some said the combat was not fun at all at this time. What are your thoughts?

    I had fun with what was there. It was more fun for me with the spear, because I like to AOE grind. I went straight into grinding for the best gear the vendor would sell as soon as my node became a town. I was able to solo a elite with 50k hp once I got that gear. It took like 10 minutes of me spamming my swing and managing my mana carefully, but I did it. To me that is fun.

    I like to grind mobs though. Lineage 2 and FFXI were some of my favorite games because of the grind. I like Ashes combat so far better than L2 or FFXI. I imagine if someone only plays the newest most polished games they would not have had the fun I had. Ashes does look like it is going to be highly polished in the future.
    Asgerr wrote: »
    Some were talking about the open world dungeons and their size and mob variety
    Some of the dungeons are huge. I spent like a hour and a half in one just trying to get to the end and out. Once again very big Lineage 2 vibes with the open world dungeons. I checked out a handful of dungeons and they all seemed different enough. I did not find any bosses in the dungeons, just lots of elites. Some of the dungeons had more mob and scenery variety than others. The dungeons do look and feel great to be in. There was even one with pitfalls into the lower part of the dungeon like FFXI, but it was seamless instead of instanced.
    Asgerr wrote: »
    How was the experience of death like?
    I did not really die until day three when I was being carless with a group. I did not study the XP debt well, but I did rack up a bill on day three. Grinded off some of the debt. It did not seem that bad to me.

    On death you teleport to a respawn point. It seems to work as stated on the WIKI, but I am now realizing I could have looked harder at my XP bar and inventory to confirm correct functionality.


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    This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
  • AsgerrAsgerr Member, Alpha Two
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Asgerr wrote: »
    Some said the combat was not fun at all at this time. What are your thoughts?

    I had fun with what was there. It was more fun for me with the spear, because I like to AOE grind. I went straight into grinding for the best gear the vendor would sell as soon as my node became a town. I was able to solo a elite with 50k hp once I got that gear. It took like 10 minutes of me spamming my swing and managing my mana carefully, but I did it. To me that is fun.

    I like to grind mobs though. Lineage 2 and FFXI were some of my favorite games because of the grind. I like Ashes combat so far better than L2 or FFXI. I imagine if someone only plays the newest most polished games they would not have had the fun I had. Ashes does look like it is going to be highly polished in the future.
    Asgerr wrote: »
    Some were talking about the open world dungeons and their size and mob variety
    Some of the dungeons are huge. I spent like a hour and a half in one just trying to get to the end and out. Once again very big Lineage 2 vibes with the open world dungeons. I checked out a handful of dungeons and they all seemed different enough. I did not find any bosses in the dungeons, just lots of elites. Some of the dungeons had more mob and scenery variety than others. The dungeons do look and feel great to be in. There was even one with pitfalls into the lower part of the dungeon like FFXI, but it was seamless instead of instanced.
    Asgerr wrote: »
    How was the experience of death like?
    I did not really die until day three when I was being carless with a group. I did not study the XP debt well, but I did rack up a bill on day three. Grinded off some of the debt. It did not seem that bad to me.

    On death you teleport to a respawn point. It seems to work as stated on the WIKI, but I am now realizing I could have looked harder at my XP bar and inventory to confirm correct functionality.


    Awesome stuff. Thanks for answering in detail!
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  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I died once the second day. Seemed like I had accidentally killed a player and while I was mulling that over got one-shotted from behind.

    Racked up a few deaths worth of xp debt trying to retrieve loot from my corpses being camped near a pack of higher level Bandits, but... felt fine working off the debt.
    Combat is easy enough and streamlined for the Alpha that working off xp debt is not an issue.
    Should feel like more of a pain when everything is balanced correctly. But, it's difficult to gauge now.
  • halbarzhalbarz Member
    Bit of a general question, if the A1 testers could point out one thing that they are most excited about after their experience during the last few days what would it be and why? If also you elaborate. This so us non-testers can get a bit more insight into your experiences :)
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    It's an Alpha test, so nothing really exciting.
    There weren't enough servers. There was a considerable amount of rubberbanding - especially in areas with a high population.

    Other than that, it was fairly fun to test stuff out for hours at a time.
    Most fun when we ran into people we know from forums and podcasts and APOC.
    Getting messages about which Nodes had progressed to the nest Stage and which Nodes became vassals was fun. Getting an alert that the first vote for Mayor would take place in 15 minutes was kind of exciting in the moment because I was way across the opposite side of the map. Possible I could race to the Node in time to participate, but I missed it by a couple minutes.

    I guess the exciting part is just seeing in person that they have some rudimentary features and mechanics implemented.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    halbarz wrote: »
    Bit of a general question, if the A1 testers could point out one thing that they are most excited about after their experience during the last few days what would it be and why? If also you elaborate. This so us non-testers can get a bit more insight into your experiences :)

    I went into it not even being sure the nodes were working. When I found out they were I was super excited.
    Leveling a node really put the wind in my sails. I am excited to see node warfare, and be apart of a living breathing world. Up until now it just seemed like a idea that was really cool on paper, but now that I am have seen a glimpse of it. I want to see it all.

    Like I thought "The last dab" hot sauce on spaghetti might be good when my friend described it, but I was not until I tried it that I realized spaghetti would never be the same again...
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    This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
  • ShoelidShoelid Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Asgerr wrote: »
    I was reading some interesting feedback on the sub reddit as well.

    I've got some questions about some of the points raised there:
    • Some said the combat was not fun at all at this time. What are your thoughts?
    • Some were talking about the open world dungeons and their size and mob variety
    • How was the experience of death like?
    halbarz wrote: »
    Bit of a general question, if the A1 testers could point out one thing that they are most excited about after their experience during the last few days what would it be and why? If also you elaborate. This so us non-testers can get a bit more insight into your experiences :)

    The combat was servicable. I had a good bit of fun with it. I went into it expecting the worst, and was surprised that it was actually decent. It really suffered from a lack of customized keybinds, though.

    Didn't get to explore any dungeons unfortunately. Some of the world bosses were really cool though. Me and my friends managed to kill the twin raid bosses that Steven showed off a while ago.

    I quickly learned to fear death :D When I first started, I died a few times because I was messing around and ended up with 50% exp debt at level 3. I probably would have been better served remaking my character at this point, but I stuck with it. When I was group AOE grinding later, the death penalties felt extremely fair. Dropping items on death was rough, especially with the invisible gravestone bug (making it very hard to find your body) but was ultimately pretty fun.

    After the test, I'm super excited to explore the world! I loved the feeling that everybody was working on their own node and trying to make it their home, but in completely different spots of the map. There was a real sense of distance and discovery, and I wish I could have known everything that was going on in the server.
  • halbarz wrote: »
    Bit of a general question, if the A1 testers could point out one thing that they are most excited about after their experience during the last few days what would it be and why? If also you elaborate. This so us non-testers can get a bit more insight into your experiences :)

    on the contrary, what was the worst part of your experience ? it's always interesting to see what points they can improve :)
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I hated the minimap especially and the map, in general.
    But, for early Alpha...they were functional...mostly.
  • DiamahtDiamaht Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    halbarz wrote: »
    Bit of a general question, if the A1 testers could point out one thing that they are most excited about after their experience during the last few days what would it be and why? If also you elaborate. This so us non-testers can get a bit more insight into your experiences :)

    For me it was the look and feel of the game world. The environments were great, the music was great. It was a game world that just felt good to be in. We spend a lot more time in MMOs than in other games so you have to want to go there.

  • MushinMushin Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    It was not fun, it's alpha. To me, the only progress they made from the first alpha test to now was the game being more stable. Still tons of issues, my experience wasn't even remotely close to what I have been seeing on the streams. This game seems to be going backwards, by now I expected something better than apocalypse instead it feels like alpha zero.
  • AsgerrAsgerr Member, Alpha Two
    mushin wrote: »
    It was not fun, it's alpha. To me, the only progress they made from the first alpha test to now was the game being more stable. Still tons of issues, my experience wasn't even remotely close to what I have been seeing on the streams. This game seems to be going backwards, by now I expected something better than apocalypse instead it feels like alpha zero.

    It was never supposed to be fun
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  • MushinMushin Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Asgerr wrote: »
    mushin wrote: »
    It was not fun, it's alpha. To me, the only progress they made from the first alpha test to now was the game being more stable. Still tons of issues, my experience wasn't even remotely close to what I have been seeing on the streams. This game seems to be going backwards, by now I expected something better than apocalypse instead it feels like alpha zero.

    It was never supposed to be fun

    Yeah I know, that's why I said it's alpha.
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    mushin wrote: »
    It was not fun, it's alpha. To me, the only progress they made from the first alpha test to now was the game being more stable. Still tons of issues, my experience wasn't even remotely close to what I have been seeing on the streams. This game seems to be going backwards, by now I expected something better than apocalypse instead it feels like alpha zero.

    Trust me alpha 0 was waaaaay worse than this
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    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    How was loot handle in player groups? Did items drop for each player or do the players all have to jostle for the loot. Specifically kill certificates, were kill certificates given to all players in a group? Thanks in advance, Neu.
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  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    No. I think there are 3 or 4 resources that drop from kills.
    The loot automatically goes into the inventory of everyone in the group if the mob is looted.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Okay awesome, thank you Dygz.
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  • CakeBanditJrCakeBanditJr Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    mushin wrote: »
    It was not fun, it's alpha. To me, the only progress they made from the first alpha test to now was the game being more stable. Still tons of issues, my experience wasn't even remotely close to what I have been seeing on the streams. This game seems to be going backwards, by now I expected something better than apocalypse instead it feels like alpha zero.

    I'm sorry but I have to agree with Mushin. I am 100% optimistic still but this game is EASILY 2 years away. I wouldn't drop NDA if I was Intrepid. My 2 cents..
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I had a lot of fun, played cleric and mage. Hunting went smoothly, as did PvP, I thought both were fun.

    I did a lot of exploring and seemed to find some neat stuff that others missed, or at least I didn't see anyone on those spots. For example, some very nice ocean fishing spots and also areas where there were lots of minerals and other resources to harvest in hidden little nooks and crannies. As you got some experience harvesting you were able to buy higher grade tools (pickaxes, fishing poles, and the like) which enabled you to harvest higher grade materials. Once a node leveled up sufficiently, I realized that these higher level materials were not only needed in some of the crafting but also to build your caravans and to be the materials that you used the caravans to ship to another node. The caravan NPC worked well, giving you choices of what to ship and where to ship it to.

    Once the nodes advanced and there were a lot of buildings, all of the doors were usable. You could go into the town hall, library, houses, barracks and other types of buildings. Even at the village stage, many of them were three stories tall and had beautifully detailed interiors. (This hinted to me that the game might be further along in development than seems to be the general opinion).

    Quests gave much faster advancement than grinding, at least that is my opinion. The world is beautiful and rich in detail. Mob progression and placement was nice and the mobs could be dangerous if you weren't careful. Roads and paths developed as the nodes progressed, as promised. The world is huge.

    I had a very positive experience. Clearly there is plenty of work to do, but it certainly beat my expectations.
  • RageconRagecon Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I see a lot of good and bad comments about this last weekend, but one thing I’m seeing is a lot of people talking about the skills and combat and quests, when that’s not what was being tested this weekend. It was to test the servers themselves, feedback on the rest sure should be given, but take it all with a grain of salt, look at what they have shown us on stream vs what was played over the weekend. It’s obviously a much older build than what they are playing on.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    You see, the problem was the NDA Drop was removed for the last weekend test and the verbal NDA was lifted after the test. Those of us without NDA Privilege have no clue what the specifics of the tests are. We only know the dates, the current brand (Alpha 1) and the option to upgrade if we want.

    We've given feedback the same for months, just because the verbal NDA has been dropped doesn't mean the months of the same feedback will automatically change unless change has been seen in the direction we want.
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  • Hey, I've got a couple questions.
    First though - Thanks for playtesting the game!

    So how does the world scale? Like could I just spawn my new character, pick a random direction, and run forth and find quests and mobs I can level on no matter what (a system like ESO's "One Tamriel" or WoW's Chromie Time) or will I be kind of led from Quest Hub A to Quest Hub B with mob levels kind of dictating where I can go?

    And later when I'm higher level or max level are lower areas trivial AOE trash farms or do they scale up with you or do you scale down? I'm not really sure how I feel about scaling, but this is a concern for me since the group I play with is a mix of hardcore and casual players and were generally far apart in progression after a few weeks.

    Also... will the world be big enough that a small group of players, say 10 to 20 strong, can realistically tromp off to one of the far corners of the world and start a small community there without much threat of assaults or hostile takeovers? No aspirations to be the next Winterfell, but I wouldn't mind being the next Karhold or Bear Island.

    Thanks again for your time!
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    @Blackford Regarding your first question, that is exactly what I did with my first character ~ I didn't stay in the starter area and just ran off and explored. I died to mobs. I died to players. I died to more mobs. I saw pretty beautiful scenery. I met a friend from the boards. I found a level -0- node. I died to more mobs. I created a new character. But it was all fun!

    As to your second question, not having tried that I can only speculate. Probably you can, at least to a large extent, though others would find you eventually. The world is huge. Even not too far from the first node to reach Village level, I found a rich spot with lots of resources and only one other player ever wandered in.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2021
    Might have been one or two tests back that there were very few mobs in the world. But, I think the purpose of that specific test was for how player density affects the servers.

    Last weekend, there were plenty of mobs - not a ton of variety in the mobs. Maybe a dozen types of mobs from Level 1 to Level 15. We players maxed at Level 10.

    There were also small pockets of areas where we could harvest...herbs, trees, minerals and fish.
    Generally challenging to find those locations.

    Seemed to me less than 20 quests available, but the quests I had were basically enough to keep me preoccupied while I explored the world and tried to figure out where I needed to go and what I needed to do to complete the quest.

    The Alpha One map is about 20-25% of the world map. People would probably be able to find the Node if they also wanted to set up camp where you are...once the Node hits Stage 1. They might not be able to find 10-20 people running around trying to progress the Node, but 10-20 people cannot progress a node to Stage 3 by themselves.
  • truelyyytruelyyy Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2021
    My overall very simplistic impressions

    - I had fun and the world is immersive due to the content being in the world, no super easy fast travel from one side to the other of the map, meaningful decision making, looting players corpses for materials :D
    - I think the combat is decent and fun given the stage of development (some weight and not overly rigid or floaty)
    - Was cool to see a level 3 node

    things I'd like to see before the full NDA release to give a decent first impression:
    - more networking fixes for rubberbanding issues which I know is currently the main focus and is improving test by test
    - There were a lot of bugs around quests. It won't give a great experience if people go to a quest location and it's not there/doesn't work or you complete a quest and can't hand it in. I understand there will be these bugs but hopefully a lot less.

    Overall the community around this test has been great and fun which I believe is in part due to the immersive world so the core values are holding true from a player experience point of view for me.
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