Weapon Size

angelicshiyaangelicshiya Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited June 2021 in General Discussion
I was reading a tweet by the Ashes account and they were talking about the new armor that has red fire in the chest; and someone under the tweet asked about the weapon and why does it look so small and if there is a standard size for weapons or if they can scale.

So my question to the intrepid team and general discussion what do you think about having enlarged weapons for melee fighters.

some examples that come to mind are the dynasty warrior characters and their array of different weapons and sizes.


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A wizard is never late, he arrives precisely when he means to.
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Comments

  • angelicshiyaangelicshiya Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited June 2021

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    A wizard is never late, he arrives precisely when he means to.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Is this the tweet in question?


    If so, I think that would be a pretty substantial weapon for a person of that size.

    I think it is just the camera angle making it look small. There is a fair amount of distance between his hands.

    Also, I think weapon scale will just depend on the weapon type and the art/cosmetic you are using.
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    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • dsnt look that bad to me, maybe it could be a littlebit bigger, that weapon already pretty not realistic so ye would be nice to make it larger
    but maybe its just the camera angle as @Vhaeyne said it
    i would like to see big weapons
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
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    I literally couldn't design a worse looking weapon if I tried.

    Thanks, OP, for listing a whole pile of things for the developers to keep clear of in this game.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    For context:
    When I replied to OP, I could not see the images of examples they provided.

    Seeing it now. I, have nothing against oversized weapons. In some settings they are a bit much. I don't think they would be improper in Ashes. We turn into a pile of Ashes when we die, so as far as I am concerned, anything goes.

    It's no holds barred, Everything is subject to change, ect.
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    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • Sov54Sov54 Member
    A warhammer head being bigger than a actually functioning one is not reallistic, but would add some options for cool designs and are part of a high fantasy world by now.

    On the other hand, a hammer being as big as your torso looks just extremely ridicule to me, and can't help thinking what Freud would say about them, lol.

    The axe and mace in the pictures above are perfect examples of what NOT to do.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited June 2021
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  • dwarf axes should be bigger than the standard, for one they would have the strength to use a bigger weapon effectively plus it'd make up for their lack of reach
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited June 2021
    I mean... any race and any class can use any weapon, so...
    Dwarf axes would just become standard for everyone if they are "bigger".
  • ShergrimShergrim Member
    edited June 2021
    Dygz wrote: »
    I mean... any race and any class can use any weapon, so...
    Dwarf axes would just become standard for everyone if they are "bigger".

    thats fine too cos that axe in the tweet looks like a toy
  • warhammer dwarves have one handed axes bigger than that :#:)
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited June 2021
    Yep. Ashes is not trying to be Warhammer.
  • GrihmGrihm Member
    Personally, oversized weapons and armor feels more fitting in an JRPG MMO than in the world and theme of Ashes. Polearms etc could instead be used to add length, but personally i would vote no for things to go the Final fantasy way.
  • angelicshiyaangelicshiya Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Well the community seems to be against from this mini thread, I still think there is a place for it somewhere. Maybe a legendary or something but as @Dygz pointed out, Steven shut that down quick. And @Noaani I think its cool but to each their own

    mbkahfsvhyz9.jpg
    A wizard is never late, he arrives precisely when he means to.
  • I think there is a middle way. The pictures in ops post way too oversized but i can imagine a cool looking weapon that would be oversized by historical accuracy. And yes definitely dont go JRPG, over the shoulder, man sized, wide, heavy swords.
  • A sword is an oversized dagger, if you think about it.
  • AsgerrAsgerr Member
    What people think war hammers look like:

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    What war hammers actually look like:

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    With that said, I much prefer the badassery of the first one. Without needing to go as big as that, oversizing weapons a little wouldn't be a problem for me. Otherwise all swords would look like boring letter openers on screen.
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  • exactly this ^^
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Asgerr wrote: »
    What people think war hammers look like:

    0de04fc68e6f5a77e3da6095aa7ed666.jpg

    What war hammers actually look like:

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    With that said, I much prefer the badassery of the first one. Without needing to go as big as that, oversizing weapons a little wouldn't be a problem for me. Otherwise all swords would look like boring letter openers on screen.

    This is why when Steven says: "No oversized weapons", and we get weapons shown in the tweet. I don't know what to believe. The axe in that tweet seems pretty oversized to me.

    The hammer and shield combo in the first picture you posted is badass in a fantasy context.

    When I am in a museum looking at ancient weapons of war. They are all badass in a historical context.

    Weapons are badass.
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    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • eukataeeukatae Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I hope Steve stays true to his word; I dislike seeing weapons that weight more than the wielder.
    Thousands of years of combat we have a pretty good idea of what constitutes an effective weapon; they don't weight more than the wielder.
  • Over-sized weapons are overrated. It'd be nice to have high-fantasy without having Anime-sized weapons.

    That's your weapon?! Have fun at the chiropractor's office twice a week for the rest of your life....

    How many of your enemies are standing still for a full minute so you can balance that over your head into a striking position?



  • GrihmGrihm Member
    As far as big weapons go, i would say it also depends on the character wielding it.
    When going to the max, i would vote for a stop at around these.

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  • MarcetMarcet Member
    If you ask me, yes, I like big ass weapons. But if they take the more realistic way and make them smaller/lighter I'll still love it.
  • ConradConrad Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    They should have a fine balance between fantasy and realism. Warhammer Fantasy (not Shit of Sigmar) does a lot of concept right and it's a good idea to take inspirations from them. Axes on dwarves being a good example as mentioned before. Dwarves bulky and strong and probably could 1h a much bigger axe than a human.
    It's important to remember, realism gets boring fast, but mixing realism and fantasy opens many gates.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Conrad wrote: »
    Warhammer Fantasy (not Shit of Sigmar)
    <3
    LOL, While I agree that the old WH Fantasy had cooler lore, I tend to have more fun with the AOS rules.

    That said, I always liked the concept of verisimilitude being the focus in fantasy. As you said, once you can suspend disbelief and agree that the bulky dwarfs make sense as a possible race. It is easy to buy into them being able to hold that larger weapon with their beefy arms.
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    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • GrihmGrihm Member
    As for realism, i´d say that´s out the window pretty fast considering we are gonna run around in plate and chainmail at full speed.
    However, i see " realism " in this case more on the topic of " does this seem reasonable " rather than " King Steve of old did in fact have this two handed throwing shield as proven by an archaeology find ".

    Also, at some point, a weapon turns it´s own page. Goes from
    1: a Weapon
    2: a game weapon
    3: a big fantasy weapon
    4: JRPG

    I hope to see the list end at step 2 max.
    If any oversized ones need to be in the game, polearms, halberds etc would work.
  • angelicshiyaangelicshiya Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    So tired of these realism arguments. as stated by @Tyranthraxus and his chiropractor "joke"... like we're fighting dragons and casting meteors. Your argument is that a weapon that is oversized isn't realistic and they will need to go to the doctor or will be to slow for enemies. Well I would argue that casting fireballs is unrealistic and that you would burn your hand off.

    Anyway difference in opinion, I don't need them to be gargantuan, just normal to plus size. :wink:
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    A wizard is never late, he arrives precisely when he means to.
  • GrihmGrihm Member
    I feel there are differences between a massive " reasonably " built weapon, and when it turns just way too big. It also does not help when a character is build like a spruce twig and wields something a DeathWatch Chapter Master would have trouble lifting with two hands.

  • I don't see why this can't be tied to transmog. Since it is going to be in the game then it kinda ruins the pure feel to the game anyway. So you might as well let people scale the weapons to a specific limit. Some races are going to be smaller than the average size of some of these weapons. While some weapons are often scaled to the user a lot of two handed weapons weren't. It was seen as training to grow into being able to control a weapon that massive. Each one for different purposes.

    Dual wield was never really a thing seriously done. A lot of games use that and that is more ridiculous than using Final Fantasy 7 weapons. xD

    I wouldn't take a big stance on it unless you are going to severely limit transmog. Since transmog is going to make certain parts of the game regarding how weapons look feel stupid anyway.

    Regarding weapons I would put effort into making all weapon models in the game look good. It's only important that better weapons look more cool, but that doesn't have to be done by making lower level weapons all look stupid as well. xD
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    U.S. East
  • MerekMerek Member
    I think the head of the axe is rather small, it could use a slight increase overall. I'm not interested in Final Fantasy sized weapons, but they should be intimidating.

    A small framed woman with a two-handed sword, probably a Claymore.
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    A dwarf with a hammer.
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    I'd say these proportions are good. However If realism is of concern, the axe from the tweet would break upon impact. The point where it is attached is far too thin and definitely weak.
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