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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Subscription Fees Suggestion
Hirschegar
Member
Shortly, I've found a solution for players who have nothing else to do other than playing on EU/NA servers without having to pay the original price.
The main problem people have mentioned in the previous discussion was about how will we avoid players from pretending that they're from Egypt or any other MENA country, I've mentioned a few ways to increase the constraints for players to do so but still it will happen so you have a valid point.
By this way, people shouldn't be worried from botters/hackers/gold sellers on EU/NA servers. The Majority won't tend to trick the system because besides the constraints(Egyptian phone no., local credit card, VPN) they'll have to pay double the price (or even more) just to claim the game firstly. Who's going to risk his cash and paying more just to save few pounds on the long term? even if this happened, the consequences of getting caught tricking the system would get you banned!
Not just paying the double and have to pass these constraints every single day/month, you'll always be threatened that you may lose all your progress at anytime and starting all over again! This isn't a FPS game where starting over won't matter that much. Even for gold sellers who will try to use bot, they will have to pay more than the original price firstly and if they get caught then they will have to pay again more than the original price which would make no sense for gold sellers to do so.
Saving up for paying $30-40 one shot is the best way for us as it is impossible to pay $15/month and about the harmonized regions, MENA players are excluded we don't have our servers (like in any other popular online games it's better for them to rely on that we're near to Europe so we can play on EU servers without lagging 18-25ms).
I've covered all these points in details previously so if you haven't read the previous discussion kindly check it out.
The main problem people have mentioned in the previous discussion was about how will we avoid players from pretending that they're from Egypt or any other MENA country, I've mentioned a few ways to increase the constraints for players to do so but still it will happen so you have a valid point.
What about having $30-40 cash that must be paid in order to claim the game for Egyptian players, after that they will have to pay $2.5 monthly.
By this way, people shouldn't be worried from botters/hackers/gold sellers on EU/NA servers. The Majority won't tend to trick the system because besides the constraints(Egyptian phone no., local credit card, VPN) they'll have to pay double the price (or even more) just to claim the game firstly. Who's going to risk his cash and paying more just to save few pounds on the long term? even if this happened, the consequences of getting caught tricking the system would get you banned!
Not just paying the double and have to pass these constraints every single day/month, you'll always be threatened that you may lose all your progress at anytime and starting all over again! This isn't a FPS game where starting over won't matter that much. Even for gold sellers who will try to use bot, they will have to pay more than the original price firstly and if they get caught then they will have to pay again more than the original price which would make no sense for gold sellers to do so.
Saving up for paying $30-40 one shot is the best way for us as it is impossible to pay $15/month and about the harmonized regions, MENA players are excluded we don't have our servers (like in any other popular online games it's better for them to rely on that we're near to Europe so we can play on EU servers without lagging 18-25ms).
I've covered all these points in details previously so if you haven't read the previous discussion kindly check it out.
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Comments
Concerning the monthly subscription and depending on the price (that might be changed later) $15 per month that's after finishing the four test phases(alpha/beta).
It is sad how the price looks so "cheap" while players from 3rd world countries won't be able to afford it.
Before getting into details, I would like to give a brief about gaming in Egypt. MMORPG games in particular:
MMORPG games are the most played genre and became mainstreaming long time ago in my region. Back then, whenever you enter an internet/cyber cafe in Egypt you would see 98~100% playing Silkroad (one of the greatest MMORPG games of all time) . Sadly, after the game is dead we couldn't find a 'proper' mmorpg game to unite all the players once again. It's been over 16 years, but there are players who still play it in private servers(not as much as before ofc) as they didn't find a good alternative. It didn't even start at Silkroad, there was Kal Online in 2002 and many more MMORPG games.
I can clearly see the potential of AoC and how it could be the next mainstream in Egypt/MENA region, except that there is a subscription service.
Example of MMORPG game that is so popular but failed in MENA region/3rd world countries : World of Warcraft ($15/month).
Examples of subscription services that didn't even launch in MENA region/3rd world countries cause they know players won't be able to subscribe due to difference in currencies: Xbox game pass, EA game pass.(Locking regions)
You might think that the salaries are higher relative to yours (in digits) but the fact is the average salaries in Egypt is lower than the average salaries in USA (without even counting the differences between the two currencies).
The only subscription service that people from my region pays for it is streaming service like Netflix. Not individuals, forming group of 4 friends each one pays 50EGP in which the price is equal to 200EGP. So, they can watch movies/TV shows from different users.
The mentality of people here to stay updated and buy a new $40-50 game(637EGP-785EGP), they start saving up until they have the amount of money to purchase the game and pays it one shot, so they won't have to worry about saving another money. And most probably they will wait for discounts even if it is 5% it still matters.
Without announcing the prices of certain regions that will be segregated from other regions, I already know that the harmonized subscription prices will be high too.
Besides I'm against segregation by anyway, online games are meant to be able to play with players from around the globe not players from your region only.
I'm not suggesting to remove the subscription system, its removal isn't a solution at all. As I also respect Steven's idea of avoiding the highest no. of bots in-game. However, I also would like to support the developers for their work whether by my subscription fees or by purchasing cosmetics/packs.
My suggestion is to reduce the subscription fees to $3(=47EGP which is affordable), while prices of any shop items remain the same. And still as there is payment people will avoid trying to bypass the system and use bots, and if so they will get caught and they aren't going to pay another $3 to start all over.
If that would affect badly on the studio, then we can have different prices relative to regions like how steam deals with Argentina with their Argentinian store (the price of any game is equal to 1/5 in Argentinian store). But many people took advantage of this by using VPN and creating Argentinian accounts. We can be able to have control of this by requiring a unique Egyptian/MENA phone number and local visa (like Vodafone Cash, Meza, etc..), players might try contact people to pay for them but they will face two problems first one to link their account with a local phone number, secondly the account must be verified as MENA player(chosen early in account registration). Nobody will try to risk all of that just for this reduction.
I've been a tester for many online games whether in its closed alpha phase or beta as I love contributing in such things but I felt so disheartened after I realized more than a year ago that I won't be able to become one as it costs $500(=7,830 EGP) for alpha one test.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Payment_model
There will be no server for MENA players as we usually play on Europe servers in any online game.
Sure, you will miss out on some things, but if there are not enough players in a given area for Intrepid to base a server in that region, there is little else that can be done.
Asking Intrepid to take 20% of the income from the bulk of players in order to facilitate a group of players that isn't even large enough to fill one server seems a bit over the top.
No, I didn't ask for a separate server and I never will.
What I'm asking for is so clear I don't know why are you people going far from what I'm saying :'D
To have a reduced subscription fees while playing on Europe server.
Many of Ashes /major competitors charge a $15 / month subscription, a box cost (frequently $60), and a separate box cost for each expansion, in addition to having a cash shop. Intrepid is giving a very reasonable price for a game with a Triple A budget. Notice that Intrepid is located in the U.S. and must pay costs at U.S. prices.
Regional servers with localized pricing are the intended fix for countries with lower incomes. If the localized pricing is too high on the regional server is too high, that is what needs to be discussed rather than attempting to alter the price of a different region. If there is not a local regional server available, then I doubt there is a fix.
While a $3 deterrent would probably deter some, a 500% higher price at $15 / month should be far more effective. In the U.S., the price of a 20 ounce Coca Cola is $2.19. Practically the cost that you are suggesting for a deterrent. This would be far easier for hackers/cheaters/botters/etc. to bear. Particularly when they have to keep repurchasing accounts.
IMO, regional pricing is the key. If players do not use the region they are from, it is on them.
The reason I bought up a specific server is because that is what Intrepid are doing for all regions that they charge less for.
If you want to pay less than $15 a month, then the only option available to you is to convince Intrepid that there are enough players in your region to support a server, and the infrastructure in that region (specifically a host) that charges a fee that reflects that lower price.
This is their method for supporting people in regions that are less well off - and Intrepid are already standing to not make profit on this, and potentially even lose money.
They have no plans at all for substantially different fees that allow access to the same servers. If you want to play on an EU server, you have to pay an EU subscription fee.
I haven't say that "I'm poor" or players from Egypt are, it is the difference in currencies that causing the problem.
Your metaphor is invalid.
As I mentioned above the Argentinian store on steam which offers exactly the same online games (that have the same servers for players around the world) that any other store on steam offers but with a reduced price (varies from (1/4~1/5) * its real price). In 2013, a player on steam's forums highlighted the situation of Argentina's currency and the difficulty of buying games and steam responded. The reduced prices in Argentinian store has been published in 2014, and yet we haven't see since then steam doing the same for another store.. this didn't happen. They aren't required(no one is) to offer this to everyone, they just did it for the first one who asked for it.
Off-topic: I'm kinda confused, why would a player from first world countries who isn't facing any problem in paying few pounds for gaming would be against an idea of reducing prices for players who aren't able to afford these pounds due to difference in currencies that sounds more like asking for locking regions but in a legit way. Respectfully, you aren't in the same situation to understand the feeling and realize how awful this is. You aren't required to support an idea that helps connecting all players across the globe but just don't be against it!
I understand how $15/month is not a thing for a company located in the U.S. and as you mentioned Intrepid is giving a very reasonable price for AAA game budget. Fees shouldn't be $3 for all players, meanwhile account creation and payment methods should be harder for these exceptional countries like every time you have to connect your unique local phone number and the existence of local payment method and your IP(that can be changed easily by VPN) just listing few ideas to make it way more complicated to decrease amount of cheaters/botters.
That's exactly why there shouldn't be harmonized prices on a specified server, subscription fees should rely on the player's region not server's region, so the most easier solution is to have the fees set the same for players around the world and there would be exception for some countries. (can be easily monitored by local/global payment methods)
That is why Intrepid have come up with the plan they have come up with - and that is why the first two people to reply to you in this thread said that a region specific server with a region specific subscription fee is what you want to try and convince Intrepid to look in to.
Additionally, verification of identity for an online video game would meet widespread rejection from privacy advocates.
To get a phone # anywhere:
https://countrycode.org/get-international-phone-number#:~:text=Go Global Without Leaving Home&text=By using a service such,to whichever phone you prefer.
Or, there are many options by searching "how to get a phone number in another country"
You suggested a local credit card as evidence. However, you can get a international debit card that can be used in any country.
https://www.finextra.com/blogposting/16811/travelling-abroad-you-need-an-international-debit-card
Additionally, PayPal can be used internationally (in over 200 countries)(use a VPN if there if your in a different country) and PayPal does not share the details of the payer.
Link: https://www.businessinsider.com/does-paypal-work-internationally#:~:text=You can transfer funds between,within your country of choice.
There are probably other options to obtain a card from another country. Such as buying stolen credit card numbers on the dark web.
Providing the option to pay reduced prices on a specific server compared to the rest of the player base gives hackers/botters/etc. a way to reduce the cost barrier for getting caught cheating. Providing such a reduced pay option is specifically harmful to the gameplay of players paying normal price.
Regional servers with fair pricing for the region is the solution.
That comment from Steven should not be viewed as a financial prospectus for Intrepid.
Ashes is using Amazon to host the game. Every player that is playing the game will mean Intrepid need to give more money to Amazon.
$3 a month will not cover that bill.
This is basic business. When you have a customer, they need to pay enough to cover your costs in providing your product to them at a minimum.
Concerning the website you provided for phone numbers, if you want to have a virtual Egyptian phone number you can't have it in trial and you must buy, check their monthly plans and you will be shocked from their prices. I tried to pick one of the cheapest websites that provide the same service and it require $13/month let's assume its $10/month only.
Concerning the local credit card, I mentioned in the post examples like Vodafone Cash & Meza & etc.. International debit card shouldn't be used as same as PayPal, payment methods for only local based credit cards. If you are going to talk about buying stolen one from dark web again, then yeah it counts as "buying it" and not only one you have to keep buying new stolen ones to use it for paying monthly subscription and that would be suspicious for the system.
if you are ready to pass these obstacles every single month and might get banned at anytime and lose all your progress, you would just need one more thing to do and it is to calculate the total which is the reduced price + virtual Egyptian phone number monthly fees + stolen cards.. that would definitely exceeds the normal fees :'D
As I have mentioned, back then Silkroad was the mainstream for around 6 years and it is a full PvX game. That's why I'm pretty sure AoC could easily be the next mainstreaming online game in Egypt. It's not about begging it's about increasing the playerbase which is also directly proportional to increasing the revenue.
In the 4th line you said the opposite of what you just said in the first 3 lines.
Let's assume that Asia region has a segregated server that offers a reduced subscription fees($3). Knowing that the price is reduced(only $3) that would increase the attempting of hackers/cheaters to bypass the system as every time they get caught they aren't going to repay that much for a new account for a new attempt(assuming the hacker is U.S. citizen). After many attempts and trials.. a hacker bypassed the system and created a hacking program (for in-game money), he can easily switch from Asia server back to NA server and use this hack inside this server as it is LITERALLY the same game. After the hack is spread all over the internet you will find NA players are using this hack and the normal fees subscription won't let them stop from creating new accounts as it is just 15 pounds(for U.S. citizens) which is nothing. So the existence of $15 for subscription might be a barrier for hackers who want to start their attempts to hack the system but won't be a barrier after the hack is already out.
Regional servers with fair pricing for the region is no longer a solution.
Cool, problem solved.
$15 a month for all then.
I will mention that whether the cost of stolen credit cards are worth it is subject to the same types problems as above; however, such cards can be as low as $0.11.
https://www.comparitech.com/blog/vpn-privacy/dark-web-prices/
My purpose in mentioning the dark web was only to demonstrate that there are probably more ways to get around these checks. I am not an internet security expert. We are talking about whether systems will be effective in stopping hackers, many of which are experts in beating security systems.
I went ahead and checked on PayPal by attempting a quick purchase, Ashes does not accept PayPal. However, it does accept the payment processor Xsolla. If you give your credit card information to a 3rd party, that party should not share it with the payee. That aspect of security is one of the purposes of using 3rd party payers. So, Ashes should not receive localized information about your credit card using Xsolla.
Additionally, it appears that you could create an account on Amazon using a VPN to change your location and buy local gift cards as Amazon makes these available if your location is marked correctly.
"Amazon has a different site for each country it serves, and each site requires an Amazon gift card be bought and spent in that region; i.e.: an amazon.com card cannot be used in Canada, but an amazon.ca card can. "
https://www.swagbucks.com/articles/guide-to-international-gift-cards
It really seems like your suggesting for Ashes to use a location verification system that is easy to beat rather than difficult. Once a hacker goes farther than me and figures out specifically how to bypass the verification and posts it to a relevant forum, its not going to be difficult for anyone.
No, it goes together perfectly. You may not have understood it though. If there are two (or more) prices available for a single server; and, the prices are dependent upon user location, then the lower price provides a way for hackers/botters/etc. a way to reduce the cost barrier for getting caught cheating. Regional pricing for a server is the solution to fix this.
In the following statement, you attempt to create a hypothetical hack in which my previous statement does not work.
You just invented a hack that we don't know if it is possible to create; or, if it were created, how long it would be before Intrepid would fix the relevant exploit to stop it. At this point, your essentially describing a fantasy of beating Ashes security system as a defense for why Ashes should do away with using regional pricing. You should go back to using currency exchange rates in 3rd world countries as a reason for reducing 80% of the subscription price in the Euro (one of the strongest currencies in the world). You made more sense with that argument.
I wanted to consider switching servers legitimately (similar to your made up hack example, but legitimate), so I will describe that here. Assuming that you can pay the $3 for the first month and then transfer to a new server, it seems apparent that you would be required to pay the remaining $12 before transfer since you have to pay the price of the server that you are on using regional pricing.
Additionally, we don't know when server transfers will ever be available. If the game starts out healthy, they may not be available for years or more.
"Server transfers will not be possible initially. The developers intend to assess the impact on housing and other systems closer to launch.[20]"
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Account_management#Server_transfers
The subscription price presents a substantial barrier for many types of cheating and provides the necessary income to develop Ashes for the foreseeable future.
Regional pricing per server is the solution that prevents getting around the intended subscription price of Ashes. That is the reason that Intrepid has given for using it; and, it works.
Secondly, I highly suggest that the fees for NA/EU servers should be the same for most countries and there be an exception for few countries like Egypt.
The way Intrepid have set it is that the subscription fee is for the server region. If you want to play on EU servers, pay EU prices.
Intrepid are doing a solid favor to potential players in regions that dont have as much disposable income but have enough people to support a server by setting up a server in that region (which should be slightly cheaper for Intrepid, as they should be getting local rates). Using local servers that should be cheaper allow Intrepid to offer the game to people of that region cheaper.
This is a great thing Intrepid are already planning on doing for these regions, more than any other MMO that I am aware of has ever done. People coming in and complaining that it is not enough are litterallyshitting all over what is essentially a gift that Intrepid is offering.
I guess some people have no shame.
Paying a monthly fee makes me feel like I have to put in a certain amount of hours every month into playing the game or else I'm wasting money. $15/month is only one or two hours a month (if relating it to hourly pay) but I personally don't want to feel pressured into playing a game. It takes the fun out of it. Also, realistically, I would want to play more than two hours a month to get more for my money.
In the event that you want to entertain this, I can think of a solution. Make the monthly fee optional. For everyone, the game can have a "free" model like Guild Wars 2's, where you pay one time for the expansions, and most of the money comes from the cosmetics cash shop. You may also want to charge once for the base game. For anyone who wants to contribute more, there can be a "subscription" where people pay monthly fees to earn exclusive monthly costumes, or even a one-use buff that lasts 10 minutes. Something small and insignificant, or a cosmetic that isn't legendary.
However, this does not address the issue of people buying accounts for bots, gold sellers, and other unwanted players, so this solution does not work for the reasons that Intrepid Studios listed for using a sub plan. Nevertheless, I'm posting this anyway.
Due to how the game will be sub, I will never be able to play. I will continue to look at YouTube videos and wish that I could, but my reality is that it's a bad idea to play any game with a sub plan, no matter how good.
I understand you, I really do. Also to be fair removing subscription fees isn't a solution.
And yet, I came here for a solution to the current situation. I really hope they implement the idea.
But I never expected this would be the response of one of these people.
I believe that there are disrespectful people everywhere
I started playing MMO's over 20 years ago. Back then, there wasnt even an option to pay in my local currency - I had to convert to USD. I was paying very nearly 10 times the comparative price (compared to average income) to what others were paying.
So yeah, I fully understand.
The thing is, Intrepid have given many of these regions a solution to this. It is one that will cost them money, though not an excessive amount. Rather than being happy that Intrepid are the one MMO publisher that is actually thinking of such regions, you are asking to get even more than what they are offering, while paying even less.
Apparently, much more popular in Egypt than in the West.
I had many U.S. friends playing it but I think you are right thought.
Me too!
Half Silkroad, half Archeage.