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Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Suggestion: Imgame selection of the Class
Asraiel
Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
initial post changed see below
Currently its on the caracter design window where the player has to select its class like it is kinda default in every mmo rpg
but what if:
the class selection is made ingame in the starting zone where you also can learn what base stats are the one that each class may need. it would also allow for a later change of the class so if a player did go tank and at one point may be dissatisfiyed with its class he can eter start a new character or simply resets its choosen class for a fee and select an other class (timelimit between switches) so he doesnt have to loose all progress he made incl housing crafting and else to do all over again.
so players design their character enter the world getting thru a short tutorial where they can select their class and also learn more about the classes. also getting starting gear and weapon as a reward maybe some additional xp as well, to start the jurney. the npcs may then later acct as selection of the augmentation class as well giving infos and let you selet the augument.
then maybe allow a switch of the augment every 14 days and a switch of the baseclass every month or so. but depending on the option comes with a gold fee. that would also add a possebility to counter inflation on the currency and adds more options to the players specialy it they might not have to much free time due to work and rl. so they also can test other classes without them have to grind themself up again and get all the housing crafting and else done again.
i personal would like such a system, even do i might go and haveing all classes as maxed character myself like i did in other games.
changeing post
change prime focus on main class not on augmentation
Currently its on the caracter design window where the player has to select its class like it is kinda default in every mmo rpg
but what if:
the class selection is made ingame in the starting zone where you also can learn what base stats are the one that each class may need. it would also allow for a later change of the class so if a player did go tank and at one point may be dissatisfiyed with its class he can eter start a new character or simply resets its choosen class for a fee and select an other class (timelimit between switches) so he doesnt have to loose all progress he made incl housing crafting and else to do all over again.
so players design their character enter the world getting thru a short tutorial where they can select their class and also learn more about the classes. also getting starting gear and weapon as a reward maybe some additional xp as well, to start the jurney. the npcs may then later acct as selection of the augmentation class as well giving infos and let you selet the augument.
then maybe allow a switch of the augment every 14 days and a switch of the baseclass every month or so. but depending on the option comes with a gold fee. that would also add a possebility to counter inflation on the currency and adds more options to the players specialy it they might not have to much free time due to work and rl. so they also can test other classes without them have to grind themself up again and get all the housing crafting and else done again.
i personal would like such a system, even do i might go and haveing all classes as maxed character myself like i did in other games.
changeing post
change prime focus on main class not on augmentation
may do it on a smaller scale races does have diffrence in base stats that is given. but not every class matches every race in optimazation & augmentation. but insead of a ingame class selection, adding the option to switch between 2 or 3 classes that are close together in behavior, skills, dmg typ.
example:
main class mage can switch to summoner
templar to gladiatior
hunter to rogue
and so on
if over quest or npc, if gold fee or questline, if limited in use or unlimited, these variables i leave open.
those switches requires not a compleat gearchange since the switcheble classes use the same type of dmg, shure some gear might be in stats better suited for one of 2, but overall wouldnt cause to much change.
caster remains caster, melee stays melee, supporter keeps supporting
2
Comments
What is your opinion on something like this? (Fair warning I watched this muted with cc so I don't know if they are obnoxious, but what is on the character creation screen is the focus here.)
but only class and augment as switcheble. race remains the choosen also gender. but maybe ther will be lader on some ingame npc vendors that sell char recreation stuff for ingame gold. (seen it in the way of a real money item and because of the race diffrence it may lead to p2w shout outs) so better sticking there to ingame gold to be save
Before i explain, i remember you we will be able to change the second archetype thru a quest already, so this will be possible. also the 8 class you can have from your main archetype will be more like "specilization" than really "different class" because while augments modify class skills, the class skills and main stats depends only on the main archetype.
On a game where you can play "all" the choice you do while creating a character has no real impact for after. And this lack of impact lead to loss of identity of each players. in MMORPG where the choices matter, there is some kind of pride with your race, your class. When doing alt is too easy, or when you can have all class on the same character easily, there is no more pride for it. I don't say it is bad or good, but just it is a real difference.
this is a thing where we mostly have to just trust the choice the devs made. because it is deeply included in the whole philosophy that direct the game development.
I feel like most people make these suggestions just because they are bored. There's quite literally no benefit to changing the current system, at all.
Why complicate something that's been simplified for the very reason that it makes no sense to over complicate it?
but there will also be many peoples that simply cant afford so many hours in a game. giving a ingame class selection option and maybe a class change option doesnt change the old fashion system. noone has to change but if someone wants he can. it unlocks just the possebility and a game like ashes that has so many diffrent systems effecting players its no big deal having that as well.
Ashes in general specialy since im here right now during the Alpha one where only a tiny amount of systems are programmed and many others only been wisperd on gives the opportunity to make such suggestions. its a way to give an imput on somthing that may never was thought of. if its gonna be implementet or not is up do devs to decide. i only did the inseption
I am still hard set no against having the ability to change your primary archetype at any point for any reason.
Being able to change your primary archetype at anytime cheapens peoples play time and lessens the class structure. Gear will have stats and not all stats will be good for all classes. Look at current WoW for the last several expansions gear has all the stats for all the classes that can use it and as you change roles the stats change with your role change. This is ultra weak and lessens class identity. The players ability to customize their character to their liking/play style. The old days you could choose to stack different skills at the cost of something else crit over haste. Now the stuff is so badly homogenized to account for the role changes and "balance" everyone is the same.
Rift at launch I played mage went Pyro/archon. I specced and stat stacked for crit based build. Slow for the first 20-30 seconds then 20-30 seconds later I have aggro from the raid boss because I started crit rolling on the boss and the Parsers(meters weren't in yet) showed slow build and spike and plateau above everyone else.
This build and gear set was not good for other classes. Things need to stay separated to keep class identity and roles firm to promote group play.
When everyone is everything like GW2 grouping in not needed just go face roll and never build the community/team work need to do harder things.
This thread died a while ago and that was a good thing. But feel free to read people's thoughts.
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/comment/245534#Comment_245534
Templar, gladiator, cleric, chantor, mage, summoner, hiunter, assasin, gunner, mecha and bard ene ervy char with 1 proffession maxed (crafting) as well geared for pve and pvp. cleric was my main class but i started once with gladiator and switched due to the situation that healer were most needed and rare ingame. but as healeing class that also coold do damng i ended up with 4 gearsets. and these were all kinda primeclass bound. like robe for casters, chain for cleric or chantor, plate for templar and gladiator, lether for assasines and hunter with physical boost and also lether with magic boost for gunner and mechs.
was hell of a grind took me around 3 years but once i had them a update came with lvl increse and boom all gear was crap.
for me in personal i like to play healer but there are also the time when u just wanna dps yopur enemys down from far or beat them up in close combat. so haveing the other classes permanent was the way to go for me. but not everyone has that ammount of time up their sleve as i do. so they only made 1 maybe and alt as well but that was it.
as u refering that having a class and switch it makes it weak because the gear doesnt wsitch with the change say it all even by giving the chance to do a switch not many would use it specialy not if their dmg or geartype needs to be switched as well. I see more of the chance that some peoples may do a switch between mage and summoner or tank and gladiator or so. that way their gear still delivers the benbefits.
augments is a diffrent thing there you need kinda to have the time to test what suits u the best even if some of the names inspire your fantasy you cant tell what the effects of the augments does and so you might choos the wrong one.
@bloodprophet i partly read in the posted link, my suggestion here doesnt intend to mix skills by choosing block from tank metor from mage.
you choose a class and u have the skills of the class if u switch you get the skills of the new class.
augments apply only bonus effects on skills and doesnt give skills itself, maybe like if the heal "regeneration" getting augment from "Gift of the Magi" it then does restor hp and mana for exaple but the mana it will give is a lot lower than the origianl skill, same otherway around then the heal would be lowered. or it will be apply a compleatly diffrent effect casue of devlopment decisions
now what is better:
option 1: having dissatisfyed players that may even make a break because they dont wanna redo all the lvling and grinding up again because they choosen the wrong augment
option 2: giving them the chance to switch it after some time for a ingmae currency fee?
i go with option 2 its better to have them keep playing
in the end i see your fear but that only plays if you belive everyone would use such a class change ingame to the maxed extend. there would definetly be some that may do it with a alt char some may do it in the lvling up progess as well onced reached maxed lvl i dont think there will be many useing it and a big chunk will never touch it. so everyone has a win on it.
+ you need to consider this is a subribtion game not a f2p crap that getting flooded with tons of players that will turn down the qualety of the playerbase.
Your primary arechtype will not be swappable.
I agree with this choice.
Alts will be a thing and should be.
Here from the wiki :
So you won't have to redo a character because of bad choice of secundary archetype.
And for primary, you have to redo leveling with your idea (one character all primary archetype) or in alt system.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Alts
The alt will be able to receive completed item (like stuff) from the main. Also cosmetic (cash shop thing) you have from one character can be transfered from one character to another in the same account.
So doing an alt (or more) or having all primary archetype on same character is for playtime side, the same thing.
maybe i expirenced to much freedon by living in the only country with a direct democratic system
Being involved in a direct democracy system (even if only on a canton level) should require you to think more, not less.
Then, through interesting questing, at the very first lvs you choose to be a mage or fighter or rogue tank etc. And at early mid lvs you get your specilized class.
But the thing is that today mmo combat, weapon and class systems have more depth to their behaviour and that is why you have to choose your path at the character creation step.
Worst case scenario you delete and make a new character. It shouldn't take very long to realize you dislike your archetype. It's not like you are going to have 12 hours of game time before realizing you don't like it.
And if that's the case, oh well. Make an alt. This actually happened to me in a few games; in TERA Online I leveled a Berserker 2/3 of the way to max level before deciding I can't stand it. That's a lot of time committed to a character I don't like anymore. Whatever, it's now a relatively high level alt that is useful to my other characters I enjoy more.
Since in this game we are supposed to be accomplished adventurers before we step through the portal to Verra, it just doesn't really work *here*.
may do it on a smaller scale races does have diffrence in base stats that is given. but not every class matches every race in optimazation & augmentation. but insead of a ingame class selection, adding the option to switch between 2 or 3 classes that are close together in behavior, skills, dmg typ.
example:
main class mage can switch to summoner
templar to gladiatior
hunter to rogue
and so on
if over quest or npc, if gold fee or questline, if limited in use or unlimited, these variables i leave open.
those switches requires not a compleat gearchange since the switcheble classes use the same type of dmg, shure some gear might be in stats better suited for one of 2, but overall wouldnt cause to much change.
caster remains caster, melee stays melee, supporter keeps supporting
for alphas and beta testers i agree but on those that may come later to that game and coulndt test it your during testing may it be harder to decide.
mainly my ideas doesnt look at pro players or adicted players that are here befor the release. i look on the new players that will start their jurney in Verra after release or even years later. and on those that doesnt spend 6" hours a day to play that may play on weekend 6 h a day but may during the week sometimes not play it.
ashes has great concepts and i hope it will be live for 20+ years but. it missing one mayor thing its not gonna be released in a world that has no or only a minority of other titles in it as mmo rpg genres like WoW had on release. there are almost countless other mmo rpgs on the market. so it needs to stand out but also give a userfriendly environement. for example may heard of the sandboxgame in devlopment "DualUnivers" with a estimated playground size the size of europ and build up to have 2 million active players on only 1 server. i tested it frist chise after char makeing 20min tutorial or 1h tutorial during the tutorial getting shown a room with around 40 other tutorials that may take even longer, enetring a world huge and free to players interaction but dead no other players around. it sounds amazing and is definetly something never done befor but i dont belive it will be as succsessfull as it could have been by changeing some of the features planed.
well a bit away from ashes but jep if seen tons of good games disapearing or became alsmost unplayeble due to decrese of playerbase. and did accwire that knowlegde over the past 25ish years of playing games (befor i was to young and tecnology wasnt that advanced or cheap). but all i can to share my thoughts and ideas. the mayor thing i learned in the time the vast majority doesnt reply or share their thought its the minority. also if 20k of 100k allredy know what class they wanna play it doesnt make them the majority.
i know more that know in what direction they wanna go if they love close combat or dealing dmg from afar or love playing supportive. but cant point on 2 words in a text and say befor played that this is their class.
on a other game i played gladiator at frist. casue the game befor was a hack and slay, but then i saw the need for healers so i did switch to healer befor the 1. char reached max lvl. after sometimes it got boring cause healer ment that you play a diffrent game than the rest. the rest trys to erase the red bar on a mob while the healers goal was to keep the tanks and other mates red bar glowing fully in the shiniest red possible. so i started mage first it was a relife dealing dmg again but i missed a bit the supportive aspect so i ended up playing summoner instead of instand dmg i used dots and debuffs to assist my mates. so by playing the same game i had 4 main classes. and you guessed right i wasnt alpha or beta tester i came about 4 years after release to the game.
This sounds more like a journey of self exploration that you benefitted from.
Would you say that you were surprised and didn't know what to choose when you switched to Healer? Or that you 'knew you would be relieved to do damage again when you switched to mage'? Or even that you 'would miss the supportive aspect' when you changed to Summoner?
Did the game not tell you 'Healers heal things and don't kill people', 'Mages generally don't give a lot of support because they are busy doing damage', 'Summoners do more DoT and Debuffs and assist'.
Ashes tells you these things, at least this much.
If you don't know what class you want to play, learning it by trying whatever you think is 'best' or 'most useful' and then realizing that you do, or don't, enjoy it, is part of growing.
The vast majority of new Ashes players won't be new gamers. And they will be familiar with RPGs and the Fantasy genre.
You don't have to be a gamer to know which Primary Archetype you prefer. Anyone who has played any RPG will have a very good idea which Primary Archetype they wish their character(s) to have.
And, if they don't, it's easy to figure out with alts in 20 minutes as long as each character is not stuck in a 10+ minute tutorial.
You aren't going to figure any of that out from a short tutorial.
Having four characters with different Primary Archetypes is expected for an RPG.
Tutorial doesn't negate that.
that wy i posted this insted or the initial post
i also played other games where no class hat a primary roll. and even do i did switch character over 5 years of playing i kept playing all of them as main chars non could be considersdered being a alt char.
as mentioned player will know if they wanna close combat, range combat or support but pointing exactly one out after just downloading the game and start playing i dont think so. after some gameplay they will see if they like the game or not and so may invest some time in research of the game and content. there will then be the time when they will made their final decicion on class and archtype.
but since i changed the initial idea there is no need to disscouss around the now old part of the idea. maybe i need to link it to the correct post in the start post so that new comenters know where the topic directs now.
i dont play only one gametype, besides mmo rpg i also play survival, rts, fps, sumulations, trading games, card games, riddle games and so on the list is alsmost endless.
i did switch from gladiator to kleric because the server and the communitsy had a high demand on healers. and dd's do also support if you take dmg as support or aggroskills as support. the longer a fight goes the harder for the healer. same goes for aggro pingpong its hellish as healer. the cleric had 40 skill up it sleve and also coud do high dmg if top geared but the majority did see ahh a cleric we have a heal and if you wanted to do dmg instead they turned you down. noone expect a mage to heal others or to maybe use their mana regen skill on someone in need but thats wy it is there healer heals tank, tank keeps aggro, mage deals dmg and supports the cleic with mana the holy triangle to say.
and many does expirience sometime that they just wanna plaay something diffrent. for me its highly on the game and combat mechanics shure i know what i will not play but what the one class will be for me i didnt decide yet. im hovering currently around 30ish possible types out of the 64 given.
in regular rpg you have a few classes to choose from alldo mostly less than 10 and on many games it doesnt matter that much which classes since every class can do about everything. and having a focus more on singleplayer than groupe plays.
i thank everyone that posts in my topics if non would reply they would be seen as something that never will happen. and its the way to go, to give the dev maybe a input. if some part of a idea made it or not thats up the devs to decide. im happy ether way. giveing me a platform to share my thoughts and ideas.ö thats what a forum is for (my opinion)
i like to see ashes becoming something new and not takeing in what everyone else has and mix it to a homogene mass. example most games use tle letter "I" for inventory but ashes says no we use "B" for Backpack instead. majority of games useing class selection in character creation and no options to switch later ingame, i dont know yet what ashes will do.
i seeing it maybe a bit rebellious like my granparent told my parrent that rock'n'Roll aint music its only noise. or my parents did the same to me by saying electro is just noise. but they keept doing it nomatter what the majority said and that was for the better.
man i realy like walltext. must be a fetish i guess xD
8 classes with 8 augmentations 64 diffrent end classes
Any tutorial would only include the 8 Primary Archetypes.
Classes do not become available until Level 25.
i said 2 time that secundary archetype can be change already. . .
I consider we will be able to do 8 character per server. and there will be systems to transfer thing from one of your characters to another of your characters, just do 8, one of each primary archetype, and if instead of conjurer you realise a necromancer would be better for your guild, they take your "sumoner" character, do the quest to change secundary archetype, and is good.
Your idea just reduce how much a choice have to weight ... It is what we defend "choices matter"
That's market speak.
The 8 archetypes are what any other RPG would call classes.
When you pick a secondary archetype you're just opening up ways to modify the way your main archetype skills work. So your fireball explodes into healing light, or your charge attack leaves an ice trail.
It's nothing like having actual separate classes the way you think of them from every other RPG. It's way for them to say "64 CLASSES, OH THE VARIETY!" when there is really just 8.
(Don't get me wrong, 8 completely unique archetypes isn't bad, and being able to customize further with augments, being able to pick any weapons to go with them which also have skill trees, and then also having unique things from your race, maybe religion... There really is a great potential for variety, just not the way it is sometimes portrayed in advertising.)
shure u can say taht it has only 8 classes but thats the look like on a tree the classes are the stem but obove is the tree that goes in so many diffrent directions that one side of the tree cant be the same as the other shure the origin is the same but thats about it. a mage that can heal or a mage that can tank shure its a mage but its someing diffrent.
the game supports 64 names for classes based on augmentation, otherwise it would only give 8 classnames and not 64 class names.
the seedling may be the same but after growing out not 2 trees look the same and so become diffrent and by adding brenches of other trees to it it may no be a apple tree anymore maybe it evolved into a a lemon tree. still a tree but someing diffrent.
i can refer to an other game it had warriors, magicians, priests and hunters at start. with lvl 10 you choose if as worrior aou wanna become a templar or a gladiator, if a magician becomes a mage or a summoner, if a priest becomes a cleric or a chantor, if a hunter becomes a ranger or a assasin. in your telling there are only 4 classes but it was 8 classes. the seed was the same but as it grew it became someing else.
and you keep saying the term "arch" which i doesnt use i simply say classes so we both mean something diffrent.