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controller input
noisyboy
Member
i feel like with technology today there should be an option to use controllers main reason i dont play games like this is because we cant. this game looks amazing and im sure ill get it eather way but still what would be an easy $500 purchess from me is now only gonna be the little $75 pack simply becase no controller your basically losing money if games like WOW and FFXIV can u can.
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BDO is not totally successfull because of the dynamic system with 7 inupt + character direction + camera to use... but they did a good work, and for farming content it is enough even for me who never use controller (i only tried for curiosity)
They also did a good work with all menu, craft and shits, when i do craft on BDO i prefer use controller now
The other, FFXIV had to do it for console (PS3 at first) and they had experience from FFXI (PS2-PS3, Xbox360)
Also, Square Enix get "little more" money,
For AoC, game is priority over controller support (even if i approve it would be a good thing, and i really think the gameplay would fit well.
FFXIV way to do it is not so much work i think, and would be added when time, and ressources are avaible for it i think. The system is really basic. even for UI (shortcut directly in bars)
I would never again play an mmo that supports controllers.
The hotbar functionality is shit.
This means the game feels like a console game, even if you are playing with a mouse and keyboard.
So basically, good controller support means poor mouse and keyboard support- at least so far.
If Intrepid can find a way to add in good controller support without impacting mouse and keyboard support, then I'm all for it. If not, better to do one well than two poorly.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Template:Controller_support
FF14 manages just fine. I've been playing it just the same as I play WoW, even though it supports controllers.
Supporting controllers is literally just adapting controls. I don't know why everyone is so emotional about this lol
Especially since Ashes is doing the "Limited number of active abilities" system that games like Wildstar, ESO and GW2 have. They aren't going to have to program all the button combinations FF14 needs with it's 20+ abilities you need at any time.
That’s an optimistic view of ‘we may support controllers closer to launch’ and ‘the AoC mmo is not designed around controller support.’
Luckily, we don't even have to worry about that. They did not design the game around controller support, as was stated. It would be too late to change that by now.
I do think that it's weird to think that controller support inherently compromises gameplay, or even that they would implement it poorly. I understand why some would think that as it has happened before, but there is also proof of it being implemented well.
I personally wouldn't play with a controller, but I see no reason to gatekeep controller users because you "assume" adding controller support inherently compromises the rest of the game.
I'm not saying it can't be done, just that it hasn't been done.
Games like FFXIV feel like console games because of their inherent controller support, and that makes the game unbearable to play for some (myself included).
Can you explain how it feels like a console game?
Because I've played it exactly the same as I play WoW with just as many abilities as any WoW class.
None of the WoW players/streamers who've recently started playing have said anything like that either.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just curious why you say this when I've literally never heard anyone else say anything like this.
Edit: The only possible thing I can think of is you were using the "Legacy Camera" settings which feels strange to people used to normal MMO camera movement.
Experience in program development and knowing the cost of taking away functionality that consumers have come to expect. But sure, when you throw enough money at it and you manage to get the community of aoc along with the idea of altering the ui to make the game controller friendly. Sure.
It just does not sound realistic though. Not at this point.
But in theory anything is possible, even introducing console support to a game not designed for it, and with the same quality of game play as the keyboard and mouse interface without hurting the latter.
In practice you need to throw money at it and be willing to take the risk.
You know, maybe they will do that when the game has become too big to fail and they want to bring the game to consoles too.
The only way it would take away is if they had to limit the number of abilities you could use, or change how movement worked.
Neither of those is a problem for Ashes because
1. The hotbar has only 10 abilities, and a game that requires you to use at least 20 abilities/items/etc. at any time (that game being FF14) doesn't struggle at all because of it. Or at least Noanni hasn't described how it suffers from it.
2. MMO movement isn't very complicated
Maybe you mean menu navigation, which I will grant you is a little more complicated to program, but it's not the impossible task it's being made out to be here, and this is me speaking as someone who's also done program development.
AoC's camera design relative to its inputs is terrible and the controller makes up for that. If they want action combat, they need to improve it dramatically.
The way they handle auto attack is also needlessly stressful on the hands on keyboard relative to a controller. I want to play AoC for more than 2 hrs at a time.
Controller is the way to go currently for playing, keyboard for menus. I don't need out of combat menus controller friendly but the differently abled community might.
They haven't added the second hot bar yet. My one, imo reasonable, request for that design relative to controllers therefore is you let us swap hot bars by pressing some button rather than needing to hold it. That's literally all I ask at the moment. If they follow the model of joy to key's capacity (since they aren't planning on allowing 3rd party) I think the current intended design is fine relative to controller support.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
Beeing so predicteble the combat posses no problem in arranging controller supported key combos.
There is time to act. "To perform this, hold X while hiting O", or whatever..
Eso has 6 active abilities at any given time. Perfect for controllers. Not so much for mmo gameplay.
It's not the only way it sucks as an mmo. I hear now that people play with npcs rather than each other.
90% single player experience.
Ill never again waste time in an mmo whose first thought is to cash in from all platforms.
Waste of maintenance. Waste of resources.
FF14's long global cooldown and combo-string system I'll grant you could have been designed with controllers in mind, that's very true. But it plays very well even so on keyboard/mouse still even if you're coming from any other typical tab-target MMO. I do hate standardized rotations though for sure.
ESO's single-player content has no bearing on this argument. This thread is about controller input, I don't see how any of that is relevant lmao.
6 abilities is nice and comfy for controllers sure, but controllers can utilize way more than a six-ability hotbar.
but i think it is a lot personnal feelings.
For AoC, the best thing to do : build the game around keyboard and mouse like they do now. At first we need to have a game, before a game with 23978 way to play it.
Then, if time, try to have a UI for controller. Doing this way, adding controller won't impact keyboard and mouse. and i really think how the game is build, it can fit well a controller support.
Again, that's just ESO and they decided to go down that route.
Just because ESO opted to go for a simple system doesn't mean a complex system (like FF14) isn't viable. It's a bit disingenuous of you to latch onto that single point as conclusive proof.
This I completely agree with and is in part what I've been saying. Hell, even WoW just recently added controller support, and from what I've heard it works just fine.
The feeling of it just feels like a console game.
If you haven been playing a game like this for a while, you aren't going to notice it.
The studios that want to cash in from all platforms are.
I point out that ff14 is so slow that its combat can easily be mapped for a controllers.
Eso has only 6 active abilities. It can be easily be mapped for controllers.
An mmorpg is not meant to be played on a console or mobile phone.
The hotbars must be filled with actions, and they should all have available keys to be used QUICKLY.
Eso doesnt allow for more actions in the hotbar (that is why for PvP it's full of selfbuffs, only one CC, spammable, execution).
Ff14 is slow. Slow pace allows for key combinations as an alternative to keys, in order to access the actions the games hotbar allows.
Fact remains that no matter how much you like to argue for the sake of argueing, I am listing here why controller based mmos have limitations on its combat design, and that the only reason studios do that is to cash in.
You can choose to pretend you cant read. Others can.
And finally, Steven has said that he wont compromise the product. AoC isnt for everyone. It is for those that want an mmo with depth.
Controllers might be an afterthought. Cyas.
Ok I can see your perspective here, though I will say it's the kind of issue any game with crossplay deals with. FPS's are notorious for difference in skill between keyboard vs controller due to camera movement.
FF14 does also have an acceleration effect to it's movement too, so I'll also grant you that.
You don't know that ff14 is slow because of controllers. You're making an assumption.
Eso has 6 abilities yes, but so what? GW2 Wildstar and current AoC had/have 10 abilities at a time on the hotbar, and they don't support controller input. Sometimes the number of abilities on a bar is about balancing toolkits and not about ease of use.
Granted ESO COULD have limited their bar to 6 because of controller support, but it could also very easily be because they just wanted to have that level of skillset balance.
You're using this "6 slot" ESO hotbar as some kind of ultimate perfect argument against controller input, but you're only making big assumptions about it.
You can say "I just like to argue" because I'm making valid points against your stance that you find hard to refute and are ignoring, but that doesn't mean my counterpoints aren't valid.
And again, controller input implementation does not mean compromising a product. Anything implemented badly can compromise a product. You're not making a sound argument here. It's all assumptions.
And that is why it is my opinion that MMO's (other genres are different in this regard, imo) should stick to one or the other.
Either be a console/controller game, or dont.
Button combinations aren't that slow. There is in put lag. If Ashes shifts to a twitch based full action mmo that is so frame dependent you need to worry about small delays like that then we should be having that conversation in a different thread cuz that's not what the plan currently is as I understand it.
Just because /you/ can't play a fast tabtarget game on controller doesn't mean it isn't possible for everyone.
I have played games like this for a while. I know what you are talking about, but ashes current camera is terrible and combat schema not well suited to long hours of play for me. Even if they fix the camera, controller is more comfortable for longer play.
The camera feeling you want ashes to 'not have' is something you can get used to and even if you can't, is it a dealbreaker? My hands on the other hand won't adapt to four to eight hours of holding down some button for an auto attack on keyboard.
If yours can take it I am happy for you but I doubt
I'm the only one uninterested in punishing my body to 'proove' I'm a 'hard core gamer'.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
Keyboards require you to spread out your fingers and hold them in positions that can lead to carpal tunnel. It doesn't matter what your layout is if you have a hot bar with ten abilities, fast paced combat, and require holding or pressing a button for auto attack. Your hands are going to suffer in a raid or long play session if you are more prone to it even if you take breaks. A controller solves this problem. This doesn't even touch on their camera and movement system intended.
Im glad key bindings are ergonomic for you. They aren't for everyone given AoC's core combat. Let me map to a controller.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
If it released as it is now, we would need to all sit down and have a discussion - but for now it's fine.