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Node Progression Status

MordecariousMordecarious Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
edited October 17 in Alpha One Spot Testing Archive
While playing the alpha-1 my guild and myself have been grinding in one area primarily to increase the node's level. (we consist of a steady 18-20 players) We have put forth almost all of our effort in a single node and progressed it to level 2. To give a little more perspective, we are guild level 5 now, and have taken down all the world dragons on about a daily basis, minus Elder dragon of fire cleared 1 time so far. Has anyone else wanted to see the node's progression or how much is left before the next level? I think this would increase certain guilds and player to focus their efforts more on their node or nearby nodes so that later they do not become vasseled. What are your thoughts?

Comments

  • MrPocketsMrPockets Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Yea, some sort of easy indication of how far along a node is, would go a long way in providing a bit of player direction.

    It might be cool to have to level up some sort of skill (or maybe an unlock) to get detailed info such as a progress bar or % value. Just a bit more content or ways to encourage social interaction.
  • SoggyBandaidSoggyBandaid Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Hi @Mordecarious I was directed to your thread by Toast!
    For background this was my comment in the map size thread. The conversation was about map size and node control:
    SoggyBandaid wrote: »
    For me I think an important aspect is not just how much territory zerg guilds can control, but how much territory grass roots guilds can't control. Map size aside, I've seen a lot of players asking about seeing node progression in alpha. I don't want to see node progression, but I believe the implication is that smaller groups are struggling to level nodes at all.

    I don't know the back end node mechanics, but I think the leveling should be exponential. Even if a max 1200 alliance can't actively control all poi, it won't matter if small alliances (say 60-120) cannot actively grow a village.

    To answer your question I don't think we should have a node progression bar, but if the clerk or other NPC could indicate the status of a node with maybe text indicating low/medium/high progression xp, vassal state, or locked status. That way you could check on the node when you're in town but still keep some of the mystery I think is lost by putting a progress bar.

    After reading the Dev discussion on guilds, I get the impression a fair amount of people (myself included) play in smaller guilds 20-30 players. Those players want to make a difference and using your alpha guild as an example, I think reaching village (level 3) should be attainable for guild of this size.

    Finally, the nodes begin locking out other nodes as soon as level 1, and the wiki says this model will be tested in Alpha 1 (https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Nodes#Vassal_nodes). To me this system feels strained since I cannot see to which node my effort contributes. I would suggest nodes can freely develop until level 3, but I think there were technical concerns with that approach. So my backup request is a territory overlay for the map similar to the nodes video series so players can see which node controls certain terrain.


  • MordecariousMordecarious Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    @SoggyBandaid Thank you for your imput. I don't mind not having a bar showing progress, If there was a breakdown of how much xp is needed would be Great. Today alone a core group of guys and myself have grinded 1,005,000 in guild quest alone and at least 8,000,000 xp today in one node that is level 2 already alone in one day. I think a breakdown would be nice to now if a guild of 10-30 is going hard in one area, they will know how much to expect to need to grind.
  • MrPocketsMrPockets Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I understand the apprehension about openly providing progress bars, I have it too. At the very least there should be SOME level of detail available at the node itself.

    One thing we need to keep in mind, is that in practice, most nodes will probably not be leveled up by individual guilds. Also, isn't control of the node (ie: mayor) separate from leveling the node? I would probably put separate these 2 problems.

    1) Is it feasible for smaller guild to significantly influence the node progress? (How long does it take to get to level 3 with 100s of players vs 10s of players?)

    2) Is it feasible for smaller guilds to gain control over a node after it has been established? (The running theory is that the different node types will allow this to happen)

    There should be some interesting experiments in the future around these topics. Based on experience from other games; smaller, more organized guilds should be able to put up a fight against the 'zerg' guilds.
  • MelofeignMelofeign Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I just want to know if 1 village per map presently is intended, or if other servers have more than one village at one point without GM intervention. If we know that only 1 village is allowed, then we can try to siege it if that is possible, or we can work with the village to get the good buildings put together instead of work on areas that cannot be advanced.

    If we are supposed to have more than on village, then we could check and see if it is bugged or if we're just too close. But without knowing we can't continue to test what may need to be tested.
  • unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I think that progress bars available during testing phases could be fine. But for the live game the most I would like to see is maybe an npc in the town hall that has to be accessed level 3 and above. Or only data that the mayor can see and disseminate as they see fit. It is going to be incredibly easy to game the system if people know which nodes are near to "pop" vs others. Will also give too much information for those that want to siege said nodes. We know they are about to hit 4, so we are not going to waste our time doing the declaration quest. Instead, wait till they level, then run the quest, and hit them while they are still trying to develop the next level of defenses and bonuses.
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  • LloydLloyd Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    My personal opinion is progress bars are no good. What I would like to see is simply at certain breakpoints have construction being visibly seen. A new quest giver shows up. A new tent. Some supplies showing up. People working on the outer walls. Stuff that just randomly comes in at certain percentages. That way when you're out questing, or hunting exp, and you come back you get the "whoa, was that there before?" and after a few times of doing it, you can see some growth of your town just adds immersion.
    h2vohwwirjqd.png
    _____________________________________________________________________________________
    Current Member of the Gray Sentinels.
  • EzirensEzirens Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2021
    Lloyd wrote: »
    My personal opinion is progress bars are no good. What I would like to see is simply at certain breakpoints have construction being visibly seen. A new quest giver shows up. A new tent. Some supplies showing up. People working on the outer walls. Stuff that just randomly comes in at certain percentages. That way when you're out questing, or hunting exp, and you come back you get the "whoa, was that there before?" and after a few times of doing it, you can see some growth of your town just adds immersion.

    even though it would be great to have "visual progression" it would take vastly more resources and time than putting up a simple % notification.

    Could be a feature added later but gameplay value you get is kinda low compared to them working on other more important components with their limited resources.

    I think personally I would like to be able to tell couple of things:
    1. is node making progress? Can I make a rough estimate on how long it will take to get to the next stage? (am I slowly moving the needle forward towards a goal)
    2. is the node locked out and prevented from leveling? (Should i be preparing to siege other nodes instead)
    3. What stage the node currently is

    I think that a basic % done underneath node name
    Winstead - lvl 3
    23%

    This % doesn't have to be real time and could be on some length of delay. Though should have a system where if a node levels up there is a lock out period where they are given x time to shore up defenses before they can be attacked.
  • MrPocketsMrPockets Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Ezirens wrote: »
    even though it would be great to have "visual progression" it would take vastly more resources and time than putting up a simple % notification.

    Could be a feature added later but gameplay value you get is kinda low compared to them working on other more important components with their limited resources.

    I think personally I would like to be able to tell couple of things:
    1. is node making progress? Can I make a rough estimate on how long it will take to get to the next stage? (am I slowly moving the needle forward towards a goal)
    2. is the node locked out and prevented from leveling? (Should i be preparing to siege other nodes instead)
    3. What stage the node currently is

    I think that a basic % done underneath node name
    Winstead - lvl 3
    23%

    This % doesn't have to be real time and could be on some length of delay. Though should have a system where if a node levels up there is a lock out period where they are given x time to shore up defenses before they can be attacked.

    This is a great point. Scope creep is a real thing when making any kind of software. We need to make sure we focus more on realistic goals for the base game, so the game can actually release, and iterate from there.

    Currently the simplest compromise seems to be to provide any details locally by talking to an NPC. Which I think is totally acceptable for launch. The big question is just what details should those be?

  • DracoKalenDracoKalen Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    RFE- Add map functionality so that when you look at the map you can see what the node is currently at (town/city/metroplis)
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Recent thread regarding this topic.
    https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/49602/nodes-growing-up

    Second post in from Noaani nails it pretty good.

    "Also, since housing in a node is first come, first served, Intrepid have stated that they don't want to give an indication of where a node is in terms of progress. "

    Large Guilds will find a way to cheese these kind of things locking out the ability of anyone finding a house.
    Imagine logging out one night only to have your friends tell you it leveled 15 minutes after you logged out, Or conversely logging in and 10 minutes later it levels as your still standing there and get a great choice. It all risk vs reward.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • UrulokiUruloki Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Node Progression status would be nice. I'd make it part of the Clerk's information. Maybe, you have to be a citizen to see it? But, it's more than just Exp Progression. When is the next Mayor Election? Who is the current Mayor? How many Citizens are there? How many houses are available to purchase? How many free holds are withing the influence range? What vassal's exist? etc....
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    A lot of those thing are planned to be available i the City hall.

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Mayors#City_hall

    City hall is a government building within a node.[29]

    We want the City Hall to be the place where big decisions are made for each Node. It should be where the “ruling class” comes together and decides what to do (these decisions can quickly make them the “old ruling class” too).

    Mayors and node governments use City hall to visualize and control activities within their node. These capabilities will also be available via mobile/web inteface.[2]

    Status of the node's economy.
    Status of upcoming elections.
    Status of trade agreements.
    Status of caravans.

    Players can interact with the node board to get a list of its citizens.[18]

    Clicking on a citizen will reveal information about their guild, society, religion, and property ownership.[18]

    Early view.
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Mayors#/media/File:vlcsnap-2020-03-28-19h58m47s518.png
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • LloydLloyd Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Yeah, I suppose I should have clarified. I was talking long term goals. % bar is fine for alphas/betas.
    h2vohwwirjqd.png
    _____________________________________________________________________________________
    Current Member of the Gray Sentinels.
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Lloyd wrote: »
    Yeah, I suppose I should have clarified. I was talking long term goals. % bar is fine for alphas/betas.

    You mean for when they will level?
    That won't be a thing to stop people from gaming the system with node housing.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
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