Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
No Noaani, they did not misunderstand you. You are extremely consistent about this in every single thread. If people 'misunderstand you' it's because YOU suck at 'giving useable feedback'.
This thread
Dev Discussion #32 Thread
Feedback Philosophy Thread
I could keep going on but that last one sums up YOUR 'philosophy' quite well. 'It's impossible for a player to give a suggestion that matters, they just want you to think they are listening to your suggestion.' In other words 'everyone else giving feedback outside of what I have experience with using constructively as a developer is useless.'
Some people know what they want and they have a fairly good idea of what they want leads to in game. This is useful data for a company who's goal is for people to have fun. You consistently say 'its useless to give this data'. Perhaps that is because you believe:
"You can either be good at that(collate user feedback), or you can be a good designer - you can't be both as the time spent improving in one will mean you can't improve in the other."
Grandserpent works in a creative field that requires 'both' set of skills. Perhaps yours just suck because no one ever challenged you to do otherwise.
Next time you see a builder building a house, go offer them a tip on how to do it better. I mean, you've lived in houses all your life, surely you know how to do it better than them.
If you have an electrician around, offer them some advice.
Tell Ford how to do a better job of making your cars engine, or a baker how to make bread better. Next time you or a loved one go in for an operation, be sure and tell the doctor how to perform it.
It is absolutely ridiculous that this is a topic of conversation. Of course professionals know what they are doing better than you do - that is why they are professionals.
Arguing the opposite is arrogance at it's finest.
I would go so far as to say that you are more worried about undermining other people's opinions than to actually contribute to this thread, and you have been doing this on many other threads as well.
It is ok to have an opinion. However, you shouldn't ground your opinion on arguments based on the idea that you are the only person that understands anything, and everyone else doesn't.
And you shouldn't become all sensitive when people react negatively to your opinions when you express them in that way.
In threads where you don't use this approach, your opinions come across much better.
All I am doing here is pointing out truths. If someone feels that the truth is undermining their opinion or idea, then clearly their opinion or idea was built on unstable ground.
From my point of view, this thread has gone above and beyond in proving my point. I hope some others can empathize with this and that we can work together in building a community in which more voices are heard and where it is easier to see what ideas most players are defending.
Thanks for all the input guys, many good suggestions.
There are ideas in this thread that have been pulled from many others, and discussions often happen across different threads.
If posts move around, this form of organic discussion is no longer possible.
-> sorted, not moved. sort posts by top votes. sort comments by top votes, sort posts by date, sort by top votes this month/year etc.
Would love to hear some ideas on what forum structures the community has used in the past and how those solved these issues.
In the classic forum structure, I have always been a fan of vanilla forums. In more recent years Discourse seems to be fairing better, especially since it is so easy to attach files, images etc, though I still think they lose to Vanilla Forums in the broader sense.
Lithium would be amazing (the spotify forum in the example), but it is super overpriced. Have you guys seen other good approaches out there?
The best suggestion is as I suggested right at the start, be a part of the community. This means reading posts, not just skimming threads for the most upvoted posts.
This seems to be a common thing with you, you are wanting ways to throw in an opinion on things without actually being a part of the community - your insistence on a roadmap is a means to that same end as well.
The forums here are primarily to facilitate a community around the game, be a part of it, or don't be a part of it - your call.
That's not a nice thing to say. Everyone has to start somewhere, and being welcoming to new players should be our priority as a community. "your opinion doesn't matter because you are new and haven't read this 200 replies post" sounds a bit toxic, or at least not very welcoming and expecting a bit too much of players. Did you read every post and every comment from the forum?
A good idea can come from any player, it is the amount of positive or negative feedback the idea receives that should determine how good it is, and not how long the user has been a part of the community.
And I didn't ask for the roadmap, that was not my post. I only commented agreeing with it. The community answered where to find it, and I learned.
Honestly, what's wrong with that? Try to be a bit more welcoming to new players dude, it is an MMO after all, and we should make an effort into creating a friendly, fun and positive community, which in turn will attract even more players that contribute to the game. If we derail this in negativity, we will start attracting the wrong type of player IMO.
If you don't like the roadmap (or "release schedule" doesn't matter what it is called I found what I needed there), don't take it out on other users. Create a thread, get support, take it to the devs and ask them to unpublish it from the wiki. Don't complain to me. I am not part of the dev team.
I'm not sure if you know what Ashes is about.
It is a game where players can literally kill each other and take their stuff, where I can come along and not only destroy your house, but destroy the city where all of your friends live as well. I can take the supply chain you have created in order to make some in game coin and turn it up on it's head.
Ashes is already going to attract the wrong type of player - that is not something a sudden dose of reality on the forums is going to alter in either direction.
I have not complained to you.
You came to these forums clearly not understanding what a forum (or specifically this forum) is for. You have wanted to turn it in to a place where individual ideas can be up-voted in some sort of tactic to try and wrestle Intrepid in to having to implement ideas that the community thinks are popular - and where people can just check in every few months to see if Intrepid are "om schedule" with their development.
My posting in reply to you has been to attempt to point out to you that what you think is the purpose of these forums is not actually the purpose of these forums. These forums are here so that there can be a community - so that us perspective players can all talk about the game, and about other games and how they could potentially relate to Ashes.
If you jump in to a community (any community) that has been active for near five years and instantly start suggesting it needs to be changed, expect pushback.
r/AshesofCreation
Why do we need two subreddits?
Really 100% REALLY sure?
Or are you just inventing bullshit because you don't want other people's opinions on the forum?
Well then I don't need to keep answering the same questions over and over here. I already answered all this.
This has nothing to do with the subject. You are just making up stuff because you didn't like the idea. This is not a democracy, we arent voting to force devs to implement anything, they will decide that themselves. I already explained what would be the advantage, and "uprising of the masses" was not part of it.
are you justifying toxic behavior towards new players with "in the game, I can kill you and destroy your house"? Seriously?
You keep pulling new weird stuff into the conversation for no other reason than being toxic to new players. This is ridiculous.
no, no it won't. the vast majority of players will not act like you are acting right now. The vast majority of people are decent and learn to live in a community like normal people. Stop acting like you are part of the company. You are a player like everyone else here. Deal with it.
oh jeez, you found out my evil plan. yes I am here to destroy this MMO. mua-haha-haha-ha-ha
Didn't know you were the forum manager. Sorry are you part of the AoC team? Only your opinion on how the forum should work matters? Nice sense of community there bro, real mature.
You are just complaining because you don't want anyone else's opinion, just yours. The forum is open to everyone, and the dev's themselves point out how much they want and value player feedback. Deal with it.
Any adult should be mature enough to have conversations with diverging opinions.
If you have an opinion, create a thread and talk about it, get others to support it. You can give your opinion, just like everybody else. Just don't get cranky every time someone doesn't agree with you. You aren't better than anyone else in here.
New players will continue coming, new ideas will continue to be posted and there is nothing you can do about it.
If you are acting like this in the forum, I can't wait to see your reaction when I destroy your node.
Deal with it, or go play Mario.
You think it's a good idea to give people a simple button to press mindlessly that has the ability to shape a discussion, I pointed you to an example of a situation where giving people a simple button to press mindlessly results in actual stupid outcomes.
I assume you are aware that this isn't the only such case.
At the very least, people should understand the entire topic before providing an opinion. Like buttons on Reddit and the like are often just pressed after reading the first 7 or 8 words, and in many cases, people just see that something has a lot of posts, or has a gold or what ever, and throw in another like because they think that is the thing to do.
It is not a good system, it is not a good way to get solid ideas noticed. If you want to get solid ideas noticed, post about them, have people point flaws in your idea, work with those people to address those flaws and end up at the other end wit ha really solid idea that stands scrutiny. This is something you and I have even started in another thread.
If your idea can't hold up to the first sign of a disagreement, then the issue is with that idea, not with the disagreement. Yeah, and in 5 years, three things have changed because of it - two of which were likely to change anyway. The only actual thing to come from "player feedback" is Intrepid understanding that we don't want daily tasks of any description.
You can keep listening to them telling you they value your input all you want - I am looking at their actions. Their actions are that they are making the game that Steven has said he wants to make, and are consistent with their comments from very early on, before Steven even had a PR/CS/community team (he said he is paying for Ashes to be made, he is having it made how he wants, he doesn't care if people complain about it, but we are welcome to come along for the ride).
Again, if you want to listen to the PR spin, have at it. I was under the impression that this is what we were doing. You want the forums changed from what they are in to something else, I don't.
This is a fairly civil conversation, by internet standards, I'm not sure why you are complaining about the conversation itself. It's this kind of thing that people do when they realize they have no valid points left to argue - but I am sure if you got the that point, rather than attacking the conversation itself, I'm sure you would be mature enough to just admit that your idea may have been misplaced (not even a bad idea, just misplaced).
Just keep the troll messages coming, I have all week.
That is a factor of this structure, yes.
It isn't the best thing though.
Good luck trying to maintain a discussion like we have been having on a setup like Reddit.
Again, as I said earlier in this thread, this thread itself is an example of why the status quo should be maintained in this case. You may not have enjoyed the discussion, but it is a discussion all the same - which is the point.
The devs respond less than 1% of the time.