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A public roadmap?

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Comments

  • WhiskyWhisky Member, Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    Whisky wrote: »
    You have obviously never played SC. Anyway, Irrelevant. A roadmap does not necessarily need to have a timeline associated with it. It can be as simple as This is what we have now, this is what's next, this is what is further down the road. Not a schedule per se, just what could be.
    We already get that every month in the dev stream.

    Ok, so putting it in words and pinning it in a forum is asking too much? I think not, it's like an intern-level task (I doubt they have any but seriously, not difficult).
  • WhiskyWhisky Member, Alpha Two
    mr n0body wrote: »
    Those so strongly against it, why do you think players are asking for it?

    For me, I would like to know what is coming, so I know what is open to discussion.

    There is not much use in talking about features that won't come in the near future, and also not much use talking about features that have already been decided upon and are under development (or already released).

    If I can see what is on the horizon, I know what can still be influenced by the opinion of players, and can talk about these topics here on the forum.

    You might think the disadvantages outweigh this, but be careful not to think that we are here to stand in the way or "attack the devs for delays".

    The feeling I am getting in this forum is that some players here think "they have been doing a good job so far, so better not let these newbies influence our game or it will end up like [insert MMO]", and in this desperation, they attack anyone and everything.

    This is exactly what ruined WoW: fanboys defending the company day and night against any criticism, fighting against each other while their game went to shit. The AoC is VERY interested in player feedback because they don't want to go down that same path. If they didn't want feedback, or only wanted feedback once the game is launched, they would close the forum until the game is launched. I don't know how much you know about development, but often it takes more work to change things than to get the right upfront, so it is important to talk about these issues so the game doesn't get delayed later.

    No need to defend them, they are grown men and can fend for themselves.

    Can't believe we are having this huge of an argument about A ROADMAP THAT ALREADY EXISTS.

    Chill out guys, no one is here to steal your candy.

    lol that suits my purposes just fine.

    I am sure Noaani will have some asinine pout fest about how its not a roadmap lol.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited July 2021
    Whisky wrote: »
    You realize you don't need to white knight so hard right? No one is bashing the game just making suggestions.
    You clearly aren't aware that I am probably the biggest critic of this game on these forums.

    The parts of the game that I find stupid (family summons comes to mind, as does not allowing a combat tracker, yet rewarding players based on how effective they are) I will happily call out.

    I'm also probably the only person on these forums to tell the creative director to fuck off.

    However, that doesn't mean I can't also put my point across with equal veracity when I happen to agree with Intrepid - or even when Intrepid have not made their stance public knowledge.
    Whisky wrote: »
    A back end is not required
    I don't think you understand what a back end is here.

    A back end of an MMO are things like the systems that connect your login to your characters, that connect your characters to the games world, that handle chat, that handle mobs, that handle all systems run by the server.

    They absolutely are essential for the game to even function on a basic level.

    These are the things Intrepid are mostly working on right now.

    Now, you seem to think I have no good reason for disagreeing. This is odd, as I have shared my reasoning a few times.

    I will share it again, just for you.

    With a roadmap, people like you can - and will - come along once every few months, compare where the game is at in relation to the roadmap they gave a few months ago, and complain to all your friends if it is not where they wanted it to be. Even if they don't give dates, you will complain if you can't see progress on things they said they are working on.

    Rather than this, Intrepid want to give you all the information on what they are working on along with the information on the challenges they are having - so that at the same time you find out what they are working on, you also find out what they are having trouble with, and often times why. If they take half of that information out, you won't go out and get the other half for yourself - so Intrepid want to keep it all together.

    You can't even say that you wouldn't do this, as in the above post you have suggested that an MMO doesn't need systems to connect players login to their characters. You may not have known that is what you were saying, but that is because you didn't care enough to get more information.

    Which is exactly what you would do if Intrepid had roadmaps. You have already proven that the behavior they don't want to happen is exactly what you will do.

    So far, no one has given any valid reason to want a roadmap other than this - if you have one, by all means share it.
    Whisky wrote: »

    I am sure Noaani will have some asinine pout fest about how its not a roadmap lol.

    Of course it isn't a roadmap.

    The only information that has in relation to what is to come is that the game will have an alpha 2, two betas, a head start and a launch.

    If you actually had been paying attention to the game, you would know the original idea was to have two alphas and two betas. Everything else on that list (16 entries by my count) were added after the fact.

    You can probably expect a similar number of entries to be added between where we are now and when the game launches. These won't be things that they will say before hand, they will announce changes to things like this, as well as dates, as they are about to happen.

    I'm really curious as to what information you gained from that schedule - as it seems to me that it is just people wanting a roadmap, realizing they won't get one, and so jumping on that and shouting "ha, success!", when really there is no information on it at all.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    WinnieV12 wrote: »
    Dygz wrote: »
    Whisky wrote: »
    You have obviously never played SC. Anyway, Irrelevant. A roadmap does not necessarily need to have a timeline associated with it. It can be as simple as This is what we have now, this is what's next, this is what is further down the road. Not a schedule per se, just what could be.
    We already get that every month in the dev stream.
    Well format that into a public roadmap.
    That's what the wiki is for.
  • WhiskyWhisky Member, Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    Whisky wrote: »
    You realize you don't need to white knight so hard right? No one is bashing the game just making suggestions.
    You clearly aren't aware that I am probably the biggest critic of this game on these forums.

    The parts of the game that I find stupid (family summons comes to mind, as does not allowing a combat tracker, yet rewarding players based on how effective they are) I will happily call out.

    I'm also probably the only person on these forums to tell the creative director to fuck off.

    However, that doesn't mean I can't also put my point across with equal veracity when I happen to agree with Intrepid - or even when Intrepid have not made their stance public knowledge.
    Whisky wrote: »
    A back end is not required
    I don't think you understand what a back end is here.

    A back end of an MMO are things like the systems that connect your login to your characters, that connect your characters to the games world, that handle chat, that handle mobs, that handle all systems run by the server.

    They absolutely are essential for the game to even function on a basic level.

    These are the things Intrepid are mostly working on right now.

    Now, you seem to think I have no good reason for disagreeing. This is odd, as I have shared my reasoning a few times.

    I will share it again, just for you.

    With a roadmap, people like you can - and will - come along once every few months, compare where the game is at in relation to the roadmap they gave a few months ago, and complain to all your friends if it is not where they wanted it to be. Even if they don't give dates, you will complain if you can't see progress on things they said they are working on.

    Rather than this, Intrepid want to give you all the information on what they are working on along with the information on the challenges they are having - so that at the same time you find out what they are working on, you also find out what they are having trouble with, and often times why. If they take half of that information out, you won't go out and get the other half for yourself - so Intrepid want to keep it all together.

    You can't even say that you wouldn't do this, as in the above post you have suggested that an MMO doesn't need systems to connect players login to their characters. You may not have known that is what you were saying, but that is because you didn't care enough to get more information.

    Which is exactly what you would do if Intrepid had roadmaps. You have already proven that the behavior they don't want to happen is exactly what you will do.

    So far, no one has given any valid reason to want a roadmap other than this - if you have one, by all means share it.
    Whisky wrote: »

    I am sure Noaani will have some asinine pout fest about how its not a roadmap lol.

    Of course it isn't a roadmap.

    The only information that has in relation to what is to come is that the game will have an alpha 2, two betas, a head start and a launch.

    If you actually had been paying attention to the game, you would know the original idea was to have two alphas and two betas. Everything else on that list (16 entries by my count) were added after the fact.

    You can probably expect a similar number of entries to be added between where we are now and when the game launches. These won't be things that they will say before hand, they will announce changes to things like this, as well as dates, as they are about to happen.

    I'm really curious as to what information you gained from that schedule - as it seems to me that it is just people wanting a roadmap, realizing they won't get one, and so jumping on that and shouting "ha, success!", when really there is no information on it at all.

    Actually, it is. And while "you don't think" (you could stop there, being honest) I am certain you have no idea what you are on about. Anyway, problems solved.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Whisky wrote: »

    Actually, it is. And while "you don't think" (you could stop there, being honest) I am certain you have no idea what you are on about. Anyway, problems solved.

    It isn't a roadmap, it is just a statement of the destination.

    But hey, if you want to claim it as a roadmap so everyone stops asking for one, have at it.

    Thing to keep in mind, it is user created - not made by Intrepid. That is why it only contains information on things that have happened, as opposed to things that will happen.

    But hey, sure, a roadmap!
  • Quin_1878Quin_1878 Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    CC Keys Anyone??

    ModCheck

    Maybe it will show up on the roadmap. Kekw
  • WhiskyWhisky Member, Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    Whisky wrote: »

    Actually, it is. And while "you don't think" (you could stop there, being honest) I am certain you have no idea what you are on about. Anyway, problems solved.

    It isn't a roadmap, it is just a statement of the destination.

    But hey, if you want to claim it as a roadmap so everyone stops asking for one, have at it.

    Thing to keep in mind, it is user created - not made by Intrepid. That is why it only contains information on things that have happened, as opposed to things that will happen.

    But hey, sure, a roadmap!

    HA I nailed it! Kid can't stand to be wrong! lol too funny.
  • KhronusKhronus Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I don't see the need to have someone at Intrepid sit down and write out a roadmap of what they are working on. Would it be nice to see one? Sure. Do we need it? Not at all.

    What they have worked on and implemented just in the small amount of time I have played during Alpha 1 BLOWS MY MIND and this is nowhere they expect to be at launch. The game is moving along, they are hiring and making needed changes, we get monthly updates that are completely transparent and FINALLY we are watching livestreams where they don't talk about how cute the mounts are haha. Let them focus on development and not wasting time on a roadmap that may or may not come to fruition.

    @mr n0body Noaani has a unique approach to many of the posts on this forum and I respect every one of them. They are straight forward and in most cases are very valid inclusions to the topic. So much so that I felt the need to even say this.
  • KhaosTheEmptyKhaosTheEmpty Member, Alpha Two
    Can someone give me the tldr of what the debate is at rn ?
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    WinnieV12 wrote: »
    Can someone give me the tldr of what the debate is at rn ?

    Some people that want a roadmap and realized that Intrepid have said no for very good reasons decided to take a wiki based release schedule chart that has none of the information asked for (ie, what is currently being worked on by Intrepid - which is the base level of what everyone wanting a roadmap wanted), and decided to claim that it is actually the roadmap they were after all along.

    This is clearly just a way to break out of a debate while saving face, as literally nothing that was asked for was on the chart.

    That's basically it.
  • KhaosTheEmptyKhaosTheEmpty Member, Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    WinnieV12 wrote: »
    Can someone give me the tldr of what the debate is at rn ?

    Some people that want a roadmap and realized that Intrepid have said no for very good reasons decided to take a wiki based release schedule chart that has none of the information asked for (ie, what is currently being worked on by Intrepid - which is the base level of what everyone wanting a roadmap wanted), and decided to claim that it is actually the roadmap they were after all along.

    This is clearly just a way to break out of a debate while saving face, as literally nothing that was asked for was on the chart.

    That's basically it.

    ah thanks
  • WhiskyWhisky Member, Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    Whisky wrote: »

    Actually, it is. And while "you don't think" (you could stop there, being honest) I am certain you have no idea what you are on about. Anyway, problems solved.

    It isn't a roadmap, it is just a statement of the destination.

    But hey, if you want to claim it as a roadmap so everyone stops asking for one, have at it.

    Thing to keep in mind, it is user created - not made by Intrepid. That is why it only contains information on things that have happened, as opposed to things that will happen.

    But hey, sure, a roadmap!

    HA I nailed it! Kid can't stand to be wrong! lol too funny.
    Noaani wrote: »
    WinnieV12 wrote: »
    Can someone give me the tldr of what the debate is at rn ?

    Some people that want a roadmap and realized that Intrepid have said no for very good reasons decided to take a wiki based release schedule chart that has none of the information asked for (ie, what is currently being worked on by Intrepid - which is the base level of what everyone wanting a roadmap wanted), and decided to claim that it is actually the roadmap they were after all along.

    This is clearly just a way to break out of a debate while saving face, as literally nothing that was asked for was on the chart.

    That's basically it.

    Actually what happened was, Noaani got proven wrong, on about every front, the people that wanted a roadmap found one and moved on with their lives, while Noaani stayed here arguing against herself rather than admit she was wrong. So here she sits, being an angry little person. Kids these days.
  • WhiskyWhisky Member, Alpha Two
    Khronus wrote: »
    I don't see the need to have someone at Intrepid sit down and write out a roadmap of what they are working on. Would it be nice to see one? Sure. Do we need it? Not at all.

    What they have worked on and implemented just in the small amount of time I have played during Alpha 1 BLOWS MY MIND and this is nowhere they expect to be at launch. The game is moving along, they are hiring and making needed changes, we get monthly updates that are completely transparent and FINALLY we are watching livestreams where they don't talk about how cute the mounts are haha. Let them focus on development and not wasting time on a roadmap that may or may not come to fruition.

    @mr n0body Noaani has a unique approach to many of the posts on this forum and I respect every one of them. They are straight forward and in most cases are very valid inclusions to the topic. So much so that I felt the need to even say this.

    Hmm, well then birds of a feather I guess.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited August 2021
    Whisky wrote: »
    Actually what happened was, Noaani got proven wrong, on about every front, the people that wanted a roadmap found one and moved on with their lives, while Noaani stayed here arguing against herself rather than admit she was wrong. So here she sits, being an angry little person. Kids these days.

    What the person that linked the chart you are now claiming to be a roadmap asked for
    mr n0body wrote: »
    - what is currently in development;
    - what is planned for the future
    - what is confirmed, but not planned yet
    Literally none of that was present on the chart you are now claiming to be a roadmap. All the chart is, is a visualization of the fact that there will be a beta test period after the alpha test period, - which, assuming you know anything about the Greek alphabet, should be fairly obvious.

    So, this roadmap that you seem happy with is literally saying "we are just developing the game and testing it in the same way as every other MMO ever made".

    Hey, if you're happy with that, cool. However, if you think that is a roadmap, I wouldn't want to go on a trip with you.

    I mean, I'm glad you think you got what you wanted, but honestly, what on that chart were you not already aware of?

    ---

    Also, as to you "nailing it" with claiming that I would say that the linked chart is not a roadmap, I assume based on both your comment on it and the fact that you claimed to have "called it" would mean that you didn't in fact read the two posts following that link being posted where I and another poster both said that it isn't a roadmap.

    So, in fact, you didn't call it. What you did was say a thing that had already happened would indeed happen. Not a great "call" on your part.

    It would be a bit like me "calling" who was going to win the mens 100m race in the Olympics just now. I'd look a little silly if I attempted to "call" it after the fact, imo. Even more silly if I gloated about "calling" it correctly when that call was after the fact.
  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    mr n0body wrote: »
    I would also like to see a roadmap:
    - what is currently in development;
    - what is planned for the future
    - what is confirmed, but not planned yet

    Would be amazing to know 100% that no cash-shops are being added, for example.

    So if committal to a dated schedule is outside what they are prepared to post, perhaps a lose chart that shows the sequence / timing of broad developed and developing works. ( diagrammatic sequence chart without dates, flow chart / process chart )

  • Would I like a more detailed roadmap? Yes.

    Is there any chance I will get that? Probably no.

    I did not ask for a roadmap that gives detailed dates and times for every single little feature. I asked to know what will be released in what order.
    My main objective is to know the difference between:
    - “things we still have a chance to give our opinion on”
    VS
    - “things that are already released and probably won’t change”

    So I am happy with the release schedule. Especially since I don’t think this conversation is going anywhere anymore. We all said what we think, we agree on some things, disagree on others, no use fighting over it or trying to force my opinions on others. It is fine to disagree with me, it is good to have different opinions in the forum.

    All we can do now is let other users add to the conversation and/or wait for the devs to give us their opinion. But I don’t see devs answering individual posts either so…?

    Maybe don’t try to argue down the line of “this is not what YOU wanted”. I mean cmon, I am happy with the Release Schedule, is that not enough for you? What’s the point in saying “oh you used the wrong word, you called it Roadmap, which means you can’t be happy with the Release Schedule”?
    How about letting ME decide what I am satisfied with?

    Other than that, I can’t think of anything else to be said, not on my part at least.

    Release schedule, for anyone still searching for it:
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Release_schedule

    PS: if you reply to this post, if possible add this link, so others also have an easier time finding things without reading through pages and pages of discussion. Thanks everyone 🙏
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    mr n0body wrote: »
    Maybe don’t try to argue down the line of “this is not what YOU wanted”. I mean cmon, I am happy with the Release Schedule, is that not enough for you?
    I'm glad you're happy with it.

    What I don't get is - what information in regards to what is to come is in it that you were not already aware of?
  • KhronusKhronus Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Whisky wrote: »
    Hmm, well then birds of a feather I guess.

    I don't like birds.

  • WhiskyWhisky Member, Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    Whisky wrote: »
    Actually what happened was, Noaani got proven wrong, on about every front, the people that wanted a roadmap found one and moved on with their lives, while Noaani stayed here arguing against herself rather than admit she was wrong. So here she sits, being an angry little person. Kids these days.

    What the person that linked the chart you are now claiming to be a roadmap asked for
    mr n0body wrote: »
    - what is currently in development;
    - what is planned for the future
    - what is confirmed, but not planned yet
    Literally none of that was present on the chart you are now claiming to be a roadmap. All the chart is, is a visualization of the fact that there will be a beta test period after the alpha test period, - which, assuming you know anything about the Greek alphabet, should be fairly obvious.

    So, this roadmap that you seem happy with is literally saying "we are just developing the game and testing it in the same way as every other MMO ever made".

    Hey, if you're happy with that, cool. However, if you think that is a roadmap, I wouldn't want to go on a trip with you.

    I mean, I'm glad you think you got what you wanted, but honestly, what on that chart were you not already aware of?

    ---

    Also, as to you "nailing it" with claiming that I would say that the linked chart is not a roadmap, I assume based on both your comment on it and the fact that you claimed to have "called it" would mean that you didn't in fact read the two posts following that link being posted where I and another poster both said that it isn't a roadmap.

    So, in fact, you didn't call it. What you did was say a thing that had already happened would indeed happen. Not a great "call" on your part.

    It would be a bit like me "calling" who was going to win the mens 100m race in the Olympics just now. I'd look a little silly if I attempted to "call" it after the fact, imo. Even more silly if I gloated about "calling" it correctly when that call was after the fact.

    Blah blah blah, you're wrong get over it.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Whisky wrote: »
    Blah blah blah, you're wrong get over it.

    Same question to you as I asked above. What information in regards to what is to come is in what you are calling a roadmap that you were not already aware of?

    I mean, I don't care about winning or losing, I care about accuracy of information. However, if you are indeed happy with the chart that was linked and consider it the roadmap you were after, what information is on there in regards to what is coming up were you not already aware of?

    Now, you want to think that you won and I lost. You want to think that the chart linked is the roadmap you wanted. That's all cool, but all that means to me is that you should be able to answer this one very simple question.

    If you can't answer that question - if you can't actually point to some information on that chart that you were not aware of in terms of what is to come for Ashes, then all you are doing is trying to argue that you won, in a discussion where no one was trying to stop you winning.
  • KhaosTheEmptyKhaosTheEmpty Member, Alpha Two
    Khronus wrote: »
    Whisky wrote: »
    Hmm, well then birds of a feather I guess.

    I don't like birds.

    Wdym they taste so good.
  • Having digested hundreds of hours of online content about Ashes I'm hungry for more information, just like everyone else.

    However, if I wanted a public roadmap then I would be focusing on what I want rather than what I need.

    What I need is Ashes of Creation released in a good state as soon as possible, anything that distracts Intrepid from that task will delay the game.

    If Intrepid released a roadmap then there would be inevitable questions, accusations, mis-information and other "negative PR drama" related to the roadmap which would eat up their time. Whatever they give us we will always want more. I'm happy for them to go quiet for a while and start to re-build the hype a few months prior to Alpha 2.
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