Discussion for improved combat animations

Denahi

First off I want to say that I wish for nothing else than for this game to succeed because it intently excites me and the developers are actively engaging with the game's community which I seldom come across. Currently combat mechanics are being debated to great lengths and whilst I personally believe that whether or not the final version is a tab target, action oriented or a hybrid of both styles, there should, be a focus on implementing additional yet pivotal combat animations to the system. Why? Because I believe that it's a thousand times more immersive and mmorpg like to embrace a combat style that reflects the uniqueness of our characters and the variety of monsters that we encounter. I also want to point out that I am aware that some players don't want an action focus mmorpg, which isn't what I am getting at with this post, I am pushing for a more vibrant style of combat that can appeal to both sides of the spectrum, ultimately what I want is for the combat to be more immersive in the sense that we are actually fighting the enemy in front of us, and not for the enemy to brainlessly just stand there. An example in game would be this webspinner
As you can see the spider was just slashed in its face, surely that should prompt a reaction, the spider cowering briefly would have been a realistic approach. Another example is this troll , if it's hit repeatedly by heavy weapons then it should have an animation to reflect the realness of the fight, an example of its stance . In contrast if it is hit by a smaller weapon like a dagger or a bow it would growl whilst covering its face with one arm trying to minimalize the damage from the smaller more annoying weapons. These were examples that I think would fit into the scenery and world of this game, and I would also like to add the fact that these animations does not have to be super intricate nor do they have to apply all the time as that might be a tad too immersive. However I sincerely hope that this post isn't immediately repelled, as these animations are not game breaking but something to make the combat feel a bit more immersive.

Conrad

I think it would be cool if we could see our enemies feel the Blows and react to them in between their attacks. Would be really cool tbh and more immersive

Dygz

No.
You will take the combat animations you were given Pre-Alpha and like it!!!

Denahi

Dygz wrote: »

No.
You will take the combat animations you were given Pre-Alpha and like it!!!

Let's engage in actual constructive feedback here, and not rebuke every single discussion as you so often do, no offense but every time I see you comment on something it's an attempt to shut the debate down

Dygz

Right. Every time.
And the discussions always end after I make statement. Just as I intended.
I Have The POWWEEERRR!!!

Kionashi

fair enough....that said I think we should improve the player's animations first before going with the mobs.

Denahi

Kionashi wrote: »

fair enough....that said I think we should improve the player's animations first before going with the mobs.

Definetly agree with that.

Denahi

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/842311901957980181/873485341661732874/20210807-103619-1480x720.mp4
Okay so this is the closest thing I had in mind when I talked about knockbacks and heavier attacks. And I am perfectly aware that this is an mmorpg not dark souls. With that in mind however, heavy attacks would be capable of pushing back enemies even when they're using a shield, this to me looks more like commiting to a heavy attack where you can push around shield users or smaller players/mobs if the attack lands, and landing 2 consecutive heavy attacks in a row would be capable of temporarily knocking back the shield or stunning them.

xodox

Denahi wrote: »

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/842311901957980181/873485341661732874/20210807-103619-1480x720.mp4
Okay so this is the closest thing I had in mind when I talked about knockbacks and heavier attacks. And I am perfectly aware that this is an mmorpg not dark souls. With that in mind however, heavy attacks would be capable of pushing back enemies even when they're using a shield, this to me looks more like commiting to a heavy attack where you can push around shield users or smaller players/mobs if the attack lands, and landing 2 consecutive heavy attacks in a row would be capable of temporarily knocking back the shield or stunning them.

clearly making the heavy weapons have "push back" effect will add more dynamics to the current combat system. skills, traits, even weapons may have a counter feature to circumvent this.

Azherae

Dark Souls has iFrames on both stagger and roll, though.

You can't be hit again while in heavier staggers. This doesn't work well in MMOs.

Would you be saying we should get iFrames for the whole stagger? Should PvE mobs get any?

And if they do does that mean that Bosses shouldn't stagger anyway, so that we don't have to worry about that in raids?

Denahi

That's a valid point, firstly I think that iFrames itself is a debate in itself that has to be adressed if we want more dynamic combat. Clearly bosses can't have the same iFrames "advantage" if we can call it that. As for players and normal mobs that would need testing, but to start with there are probably ways to work around iFrames, and if there aren't then iFrames wouldn't have to apply for the majority of attacks, eitherway this is one way to go about it, I am not sure what else would make the combat more impactful.

Azherae

Denahi wrote: »

That's a valid point, firstly I think that iFrames itself is a debate in itself that has to be adressed if we want more dynamic combat. Clearly bosses can't have the same iFrames "advantage" if we can call it that. As for players and normal mobs that would need testing, but to start with there are probably ways to work around iFrames, and if there aren't then iFrames wouldn't have to apply for the majority of attacks, eitherway this is one way to go about it, I am not sure what else would make the combat more impactful.

Which is why MMO combat isn't normally 'impactful'. The stagger and iFrames go hand in hand for balance reasons. Since most games aren't fun to play when they have iFrames on stagger, they just don't have stagger. Even just 'my teammate did a heavy attack on this enemy and knocked them out of range of my own attack skill and wasted it' is a problem for MMOs. Coordinating this is an entire 'group skillset' in Monster Hunter and the monsters there only flinch out of the way of an attack maybe 10% of the time.

Noaani

Two points.

First, iFrames are cancer in MMO's. When combat comes down to having iFrames so that it looks pretty, or not having them so it actually functions properly, it shouldn't be a debate in an MMO, even if there is that debate with single player games.

Second, labeling this thread a petition is a mistake, it makes it look like you are trying to force Intrepid to do things your way, even though that was not the intent of your post (which is clear to anyone that read the actual post - unlike Dygz).

You should have labeled this thread Discussion around improved combat animations, not petition for.

Minor thing, but important regardless.

Denahi

I agree, clearly iFrames has no place in mmorpgs, that being said the way combat looks like right now isn't very appealing at all, I still think that stagger can be utilized without relying on iFrames, admittedly I don't know how that would look like.

Azherae

Denahi wrote: »

I agree, clearly iFrames has no place in mmorpgs, that being said the way combat looks like right now isn't very appealing at all, I still think that stagger can be utilized without relying on iFrames, admittedly I don't know how that would look like.

Then why do you think it?

Ten Word Answer:
I Think Stagger Can Be Utilized Without Relying On iFrames.

"What are the next ten words of your answer?

Denahi

In terms of pvp, to be able to stagger someone should be reasonable difficult, and the "reward"/incentive to attempt to stagger someone is a window of vulnerability for the one's that's staggered. Numbers would have to be tweaked, however iFrames does not need to be present in that scenario, at the top of my head, maybe to balance it out the staggered opponent would take less damage from you during that short period. It's just an idea, as for PVE and bosses, I don't know

Azherae

Denahi wrote: »

In terms of pvp, to be able to stagger someone should be reasonable difficult, and the "reward"/incentive to attempt to stagger someone is a window of vulnerability for the one's that's staggered. Numbers would have to be tweaked, however iFrames does not need to be present in that scenario, at the top of my head, maybe to balance it out the staggered opponent would take less damage from you during that short period. It's just an idea, as for PVE and bosses, I don't know

It's difficult in 1v1. It's much less difficult in 2v1. If you tweak it so that two players can't stagger-lock another basically completely, then either the stagger is so short that it won't matter, or the stagger is so difficult/rare that there's no real point to adding it.

It all depends on what you want out of the game, in the end, as long as you're 'petitioning' for something specific that you actually want, then great.

Anyway, the answer I gave in the Combat Discussion is starting to sound like what you're talking about, after all.

If you meant 'stagger should be difficult because hitting people in PvP is difficult'... we're not sure that's the intention yet, and as you've seen in your arguments, there are some people who don't seem to want it that way, so there's no indication right now that it will be.

Denahi

Well for now I just want more people to adress this discussion as it's important now that Alpha 1 is closing down for a longer period.

Azherae

Denahi wrote: »

Well for now I just want more people to adress this discussion as it's important now that Alpha 1 is closing down for a longer period.

Sure. Sorry if I'm being overbearing. I just don't want a lot of focus on things that people will end up hating later because it comes with other things they don't want.

Denahi

No, what you're doing is good, it defintely revealed some things that I hadn't considered before you brought it up