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Idea: Guild Player Kill Log

Simple idea really. To keep track of whether or not the players in the guild are being too toxic (because a little ain't so bad and the amount is relative to the guilds preference and intention) Have a log for every time a player kills another player that's accessible in the guild. That way if you are opposed to having a player camping continuously you can request for them to stop. On the flip side it could be used as a way to track guildies kills and reward them for it. Can also even have a "killed by" list so you can go avenge your guildies. Feel free to pick and prod at this idea, I defintiely want to see all of your thoughts.
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Comments

  • Ah the albion online guild I was in had something like this for our discord server. Basically they had two channels and one was for guildie kills and the other was for guildies being killed. The log would show what both players were wearing as items so you could tell if someone got bent over the knee unfairly or if it was a good fight. This was also used to make sure that guild members were not attacking or being attacked by verbally allied alliances/guilds.

    I don't advocate seeing the gear people wear but a similar system would be a great addition to the game.
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  • Sathrago wrote: »
    Ah the albion online guild I was in had something like this for our discord server. Basically they had two channels and one was for guildie kills and the other was for guildies being killed. The log would show what both players were wearing as items so you could tell if someone got bent over the knee unfairly or if it was a good fight. This was also used to make sure that guild members were not attacking or being attacked by verbally allied alliances/guilds.

    I don't advocate seeing the gear people wear but a similar system would be a great addition to the game.

    I dig that, that could be amended with a very basic and vague gear level system that just rates gear and adds it up to show the difference in power.
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  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Not a bad idea to have that in-game. I know my guild Ashes already has this in discord.
    My Mortal Online 2 clan does this on discord as well.

    The kill log is not necessarily what I am talking about. I am talking about a list of players and guilds that our guild has an official stance towards.

    Lists might look like this:
    Zizaran | Not Hostile
    Asmongold | Kill on Sight
    Sorcerer | Use caution

    I mean, something like an in-game "Google Docs" system would make this sort of thing a dream for me. Not the vision for your idea, OP. Just explaining my idea for an idea system that accomplishes a similar goal. Your idea would be cool too.
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  • Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Not a bad idea to have that in-game. I know my guild Ashes already has this in discord.
    My Mortal Online 2 clan does this on discord as well.

    The kill log is not necessarily what I am talking about. I am talking about a list of players and guilds that our guild has an official stance towards.

    Lists might look like this:
    Zizaran | Not Hostile
    Asmongold | Kill on Sight
    Sorcerer | Use caution

    I mean, something like an in-game "Google Docs" system would make this sort of thing a dream for me. Not the vision for your idea, OP. Just explaining my idea for an idea system that accomplishes a similar goal. Your idea would be cool too.

    That would be an awesome feature though! My idea is more towards either reward or disciplining, or even to just be like "Damn, so-and-so killed that dude 10 times 5 minutes ago, maybe I will give him a break this time"
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  • I like it.
  • RavelRavel Member
    edited August 2021
    I would like the opposite: a list of players (or their guild) that have killed players in your guild.

    Or even better, guilds can declare to be officially at war with each other and from that moment a kill count is maintained that show how many times your guild killed players of the other guild and vice versa.
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  • Ravel wrote: »
    I would like the opposite: a list of players (or their guild) that have killed players in your guild.

    Or even better, guilds can declare to be officially ar war with each other and from that moment a kill count is maintained that show how many times your guild killed players of the other guild and vice versa.

    both would be awesome!
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  • pyrealpyreal Member, Warrior of Old
    Doesn't see worth the effort. How does this build community, e-peening?
  • pyreal wrote: »
    Doesn't see worth the effort. How does this build community, e-peening?

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  • SathragoSathrago Member
    edited August 2021
    pyreal wrote: »
    Doesn't see worth the effort. How does this build community, e-peening?

    its about keeping track of who are your friends/enemies. If you alliance with another guild and the next day their members are killing your gatherers, it is a lot easier to find out who and if they did it. Clearing up communication and interactions between players from these different alliances will make or break agreements and guilds.
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  • edited August 2021
    It's not about the e-peening, it's more about .. "Who are my members killing/Who is killing my members?"
    The only concern I have is that it's a bit meta and one could sit there and watch the list in real-time to get information, which means if you have a spy in the guild and everyone can see this information they can spy on stuff they're not even there to witness.

    Would like to see it behind a permissions system so the leader can decide if/which officers and members can see such a list.
  • Sathrago wrote: »
    pyreal wrote: »
    Doesn't see worth the effort. How does this build community, e-peening?

    its about keeping track of who are your friends/enemies. If you alliance with another guild and the next day their members are killing your gatherers, it is a lot easier to find out who and if they did it. Clearing up communication and interactions between players from these different alliances will make or break agreements and guilds.

    While I agree, isn't this part of the game that Steven said he wanted to be a bit unknown? If everything is catalogued by the game, it takes away any possibility of infiltrating groups, stealthily killing people for their farms, etc. There should be more investigation required by players instead of getting everything spoon-fed.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Merek wrote: »
    While I agree, isn't this part of the game that Steven said he wanted to be a bit unknown? If everything is catalogued by the game, it takes away any possibility of infiltrating groups, stealthily killing people for their farms, etc. There should be more investigation required by players instead of getting everything spoon-fed.

    Having things like who attacked our guild and who is a threat be unknown is not going to be a thing. There is nothing intrepid can or should do to prevent guilds from making these lists in real time.

    When the game goes live, people will have these lists on discord or via Google Docs.

    These lists already existed in pre-alpha.
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  • SathragoSathrago Member
    edited August 2021
    Merek wrote: »
    Sathrago wrote: »
    pyreal wrote: »
    Doesn't see worth the effort. How does this build community, e-peening?

    its about keeping track of who are your friends/enemies. If you alliance with another guild and the next day their members are killing your gatherers, it is a lot easier to find out who and if they did it. Clearing up communication and interactions between players from these different alliances will make or break agreements and guilds.

    While I agree, isn't this part of the game that Steven said he wanted to be a bit unknown? If everything is catalogued by the game, it takes away any possibility of infiltrating groups, stealthily killing people for their farms, etc. There should be more investigation required by players instead of getting everything spoon-fed.

    It's mostly a quality of life thing for guilds to take advantage of, like Vhaeyne said, there are people already spending time trying to make these lists and logs outside of the game to keep track of things. I don't think allowing players access to an automated version in the game would hurt the game. If anything they can spend more time playing instead of trying to remember how Microsoft Excel works.

    I understand the concern for too much information, but what is being asked for here is player names, guild/alliances they are in. Other stuff like what class or weapons they use as well as the location on the map where it happened are possible additions but not something required for what people are asking for in this thread.
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  • Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Merek wrote: »
    While I agree, isn't this part of the game that Steven said he wanted to be a bit unknown? If everything is catalogued by the game, it takes away any possibility of infiltrating groups, stealthily killing people for their farms, etc. There should be more investigation required by players instead of getting everything spoon-fed.

    Having things like who attacked our guild and who is a threat be unknown is not going to be a thing. There is nothing intrepid can or should do to prevent guilds from making these lists in real time.

    When the game goes live, people will have these lists on discord or via Google Docs.

    These lists already existed in pre-alpha.

    That's fine and exactly how I want it. I just don't want the game to spoon-feed it, players can go ahead and make all the lists they want, but this way it allows for misinformation and subterfuge better than an in-game log that states [A was damaged by B] or [A was killed by B].
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Merek wrote: »

    That's fine and exactly how I want it. I just don't want the game to spoon-feed it, players can go ahead and make all the lists they want, but this way it allows for misinformation and subterfuge better than an in-game log that states [A was damaged by B] or [A was killed by B].

    Agreed, which is why I see having the game do it as a welcomed quality of life, but not needed.

    Part of the fun in EVE is spreadsheets... at least for me. Hell, I have had spreadsheets in WOW.
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  • Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Part of the fun in EVE is spreadsheets... at least for me. Hell, I have had spreadsheets in WOW.

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  • JustVineJustVine Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Merek wrote: »

    That's fine and exactly how I want it. I just don't want the game to spoon-feed it, players can go ahead and make all the lists they want, but this way it allows for misinformation and subterfuge better than an in-game log that states [A was damaged by B] or [A was killed by B].

    Agreed, which is why I see having the game do it as a welcomed quality of life, but not needed.

    Part of the fun in EVE is spreadsheets... at least for me. Hell, I have had spreadsheets in WOW.

    Yeah but the reason EVE has spreadsheets is well.... Good luck NOT having one if you want to make a profit long term >.>

    @Merek I suppose you don't want a 'you were killed by ThotBot22' death screen in this case either? If you get ganked by a group there is definitely room for 'misinformation', but when it comes to vengeance I personally want a clear idea of who I should hunt for my death.

    If the game's combat log doesn't read Hotdog_Demon92 used Fireball on JustVine for 243 damage, though I would be sort of confused as to what information should be in said combat log. What do you want game logs to say that isn't 'spoonfed'? If the example is acceptable then there isn't really /any/ room for ambiguity except in the smallest of cases and those small cases wouldn't be less confusing if the tool existed. (A guild member accidentally or purposely flagging for guild member pvp comes to mind.)

    Player's will have extremely specific and clear data to communicate if the above is acceptable to you. Going 'well I want my guildy to make external notes and to have to manage all this on my own' is fine, but it /is/ creating extra work an add on could have done. It is therefore a QoL thing I would expect would not be particularly hard or resource intensive for Intrepid to add.

    My last point on this topic is 'there are still reasons for a guildy to report to their officer.' What gear did they have, where were you, what were you doing, how did they get the jump on you, did you aggro them, what tactics did they use. All pertinent important information a good guild will want that this death log wouldn't provide. The social element is still preserved if you give us this QoL feature.

    The one situation I can see happening if this /isn't/ a feature is now I don't know who in my guild isn't reporting to their officer. I can't think of a good reason other than shame, for not reporting. That's a bad thing to let fester. This tool would allow a good guild to prevent festering and force social confrontation. Without it, it's letting anti-social behavior go unchecked, which I personally don't think is within Ashes general design philosophy.
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  • Another fun feature that could go super well with this is it could also pair well with the bounty system and keep track of the amount of player kills criminals have while they are being hunted. Could even list the names of their victims giving more incentive to their friends and guildies to join in on earning the bounty.
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  • Dolyem wrote: »
    Another fun feature that could go super well with this is it could also pair well with the bounty system and keep track of the amount of player kills criminals have while they are being hunted. Could even list the names of their victims giving more incentive to their friends and guildies to join in on earning the bounty.

    Totally using this as a spring board for suggesting an overly detailed "Wanted- Corrupted Player A" poster that has the avatar images of all their victims stapled/outlining the wanted poster itself. They would have little details like being apart of a "missing" sign or "Have you seen this person?" with bloody Xs crossed through their images.

    (For the clowns out there, this is only a semi-serious suggestion and given the choice I would throw it away in favor of core/vital systems. It is more of a detail/flavor thing that some games who enjoy even the little details like to do.)
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  • JustVineJustVine Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Sathrago wrote: »
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Another fun feature that could go super well with this is it could also pair well with the bounty system and keep track of the amount of player kills criminals have while they are being hunted. Could even list the names of their victims giving more incentive to their friends and guildies to join in on earning the bounty.



    (For the clowns out there, this is only a semi-serious suggestion and given the choice I would throw it away in favor of core/vital systems. It is more of a detail/flavor thing that some games who enjoy even the little details like to do.)

    What about the historical mime ex-pat community

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  • Sathrago wrote: »
    Totally using this as a spring board for suggesting an overly detailed "Wanted- Corrupted Player A" poster that has the avatar images of all their victims stapled/outlining the wanted poster itself. They would have little details like being apart of a "missing" sign or "Have you seen this person?" with bloody Xs crossed through their images.

    We're right there with you, brother... :#

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  • CROW3 wrote: »
    Sathrago wrote: »
    Totally using this as a spring board for suggesting an overly detailed "Wanted- Corrupted Player A" poster that has the avatar images of all their victims stapled/outlining the wanted poster itself. They would have little details like being apart of a "missing" sign or "Have you seen this person?" with bloody Xs crossed through their images.

    We're right there with you, brother... :#

    meme_wanted_sathrago.jpg


    "This just in, local man beaten to death for not sharing their fishing spot."
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    I have differing opinions on this.

    On the one hand, having access to objective information is good.

    On the other, not having access to this information adds potential for intrigue.

    If I tell my guild leader that someone from a supposedly allied guild killed me, that could potentially end an alliance and start a guild war.
  • JustVine wrote: »
    @Merek I suppose you don't want a 'you were killed by ThotBot22' death screen in this case either? If you get ganked by a group there is definitely room for 'misinformation', but when it comes to vengeance I personally want a clear idea of who I should hunt for my death.

    If the game's combat log doesn't read Hotdog_Demon92 used Fireball on JustVine for 243 damage, though I would be sort of confused as to what information should be in said combat log. What do you want game logs to say that isn't 'spoonfed'? If the example is acceptable then there isn't really /any/ room for ambiguity except in the smallest of cases and those small cases wouldn't be less confusing if the tool existed. (A guild member accidentally or purposely flagging for guild member pvp comes to mind.)

    I'm not against a local combat log, I'm against a globally accessible guild log that automatically writes down the name of everyone that your guild has engaged or been engaged by. I definitely understand wanting a clear idea for vengeance, so, if you've got a decent memory, you would remember their name or at least their gear.
    JustVine wrote: »
    Going 'well I want my guildy to make external notes and to have to manage all this on my own' is fine, but it /is/ creating extra work an add on could have done. It is therefore a QoL thing I would expect would not be particularly hard or resource intensive for Intrepid to add.

    I never said I wanted them to create anything, I said I wanted it outside of the game. QoL = Laziness in many cases, if you can't remember who wronged you, lucky them. And no, it wouldn't be very resource intensive but it's not necessary.
    JustVine wrote: »
    My last point on this topic is 'there are still reasons for a guildy to report to their officer.' What gear did they have, where were you, what were you doing, how did they get the jump on you, did you aggro them, what tactics did they use. All pertinent important information a good guild will want that this death log wouldn't provide. The social element is still preserved if you give us this QoL feature.

    That information is irrelevant. Their gear, 'aggro' and tactics are irrelevant. The question will always be, who did it? And if that's answered by a globally accessible guild log, there's no social element to be had. The only reason you'd want to keep their gear in mind would be if it's so unique you couldn't forget it unlike their name. But that's an irrelevant thought when I can quick-tab into the guild menu, click 'logs' and view 'combat feed' to see who and when.
    JustVine wrote: »
    The one situation I can see happening if this /isn't/ a feature is now I don't know who in my guild isn't reporting to their officer. I can't think of a good reason other than shame, for not reporting. That's a bad thing to let fester. This tool would allow a good guild to prevent festering and force social confrontation. Without it, it's letting anti-social behavior go unchecked, which I personally don't think is within Ashes general design philosophy.

    If your guild members don't report being killed then that's on them, either they don't care or they really do feel "shame". I don't understand how it can fester, if dying makes you feel shameful in a game you've got issues that need to be resolved outside of it.
  • JustVineJustVine Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    The combat log means they have objective clear cut info. There isn't any 'unclear' info about who killed who. The only 'potential' intrigue on that point here is a forgetful or asshole guildy. 'Forgetfulness' isn't fun gameplay or drama. Asshole behavior depends on your personality if you find that entertaining or not, but it isn't intrigue.

    Its far more lazy to just say a few names from your combat log in guild chat than it is to effectively debrief your officer on the situation. At least if the officer knows something happened they know someone needs a reprimand if they don't report.

    If you don't think all the other examples of important information isn't relevant, and you don't understand why it's better to have a positive confirmation rather than a negative one 'because you think personal issues should be resolved out of game' then I wouldn't be surprised if you told me you have never been in a leadership position in a guild. We can agree to disagree on those points due to our differing life perspectives.

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  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited August 2021
    Ravel wrote: »
    Or even better, guilds can declare to be officially at war with each other and from that moment a kill count is maintained that show how many times your guild killed players of the other guild and vice versa.

    Guild wars are still a work in progress and we don't have a ton of into about them, but this might be interesting info to have during one.

    https://www.ashes101.com/guildwars.php
     
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  • JustVine wrote: »
    The combat log means they have objective clear cut info. There isn't any 'unclear' info about who killed who. The only 'potential' intrigue on that point here is a forgetful or asshole guildy. 'Forgetfulness' isn't fun gameplay or drama. Asshole behavior depends on your personality if you find that entertaining or not, but it isn't intrigue.

    Its far more lazy to just say a few names from your combat log in guild chat than it is to effectively debrief your officer on the situation. At least if the officer knows something happened they know someone needs a reprimand if they don't report.

    If you don't think all the other examples of important information isn't relevant, and you don't understand why it's better to have a positive confirmation rather than a negative one 'because you think personal issues should be resolved out of game' then I wouldn't be surprised if you told me you have never been in a leadership position in a guild. We can agree to disagree on those points due to our differing life perspectives.

    I understand it's clear cut information, I don't want anyone to have it. I want drama, I want people to make mistakes, it makes the game more entertaining. Whether you like that or not doesn't matter, that specific debate is based on personal taste. And I don't get how someone else being forgetful makes me an asshole, if you're the dumbass that forgets who PK's you? Neither of us are, the person that PK'd you is technically the asshole. If your members aren't willing to properly debrief you about it, again, you've got shit members.

    Having a log in your guild window that lists who died and who got killed doesn't help, at all. If anything, doesn't that bring more 'shame' to players that don't report? "Hey, X, why didn't you tell me you got bodied 5 times within the span of 15 minutes at Misty Mire? What are you? Shit at the game? LOL!?" What someone doesn't know, won't hurt them. There's no need to project either, it's not very becoming of someone that's been in a leadership position...
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