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2021 AoC Concerns
tiberiustheron
Member
It's been a few years now and I am still seeing and hearing the same concern. My concern is so much of AoC is weighted on players being interested in PvP as the end game content. As a PvP lover myself, I understand after years of experience in MMOs, that it takes ALL types of players to make an MMO successful. The MMO can not class itself as PvP, PvE, or even PvX. It has to be an MMO for everyone. From the crafter, to the gather, to the raider, to the players who enjoy conflict. The MMO has to have something for everyone and a quality amount of content at launch.
The game seems to be far too focused on PvP. And aside from niche PvP games and EvE... All PvP focused MMORPGs have failed or at the very least been unsuccessful. Since I started playing MMOs in 1998 I have watched all except a few be successful. None of the successful MMOs was solely PvP focused.
A lot of us already see AoC as just ArcheAge 2.0 and that brings its concerns. But the main one being the lack of content outside of PvP. PvP is awesome, fun, and well needed. But it can't be everything for end-game content. ArcheAge crashed and burned in no small part to people just flat out getting bored of the constant conflicts, community toxicity, and lack of stuff to do. And I see all three with AoC, and it hasn't even been released yet.
I would encourage the Dev Team to make similar changes that New World has done now. New World started out as a trash PvP focused game. I Alpha tested it from the start. AGS kept asking us for feedback, listened, and make the big changes needed. New World is going to release now and be hugely successful. It's now a nice hybrid model of both PvP and PvE. It has something to do for ALL players. Not just those of us who want to PvP.
I've invested heavily in AoC, so I am only wishing the game the best. But I have my concerns, and they are completely valid. Thousands of people in the Discord agree as well. I think a small vocal minority in the AoC community is helping AoC down a path of complete failure if the games end game content is not diversified for everyone and not just a select few.
I understand if you don't agree and I welcome your opinion. However if your opinion is AoC is just for PvP, don't play the game. Then please don't bother even posting here. If you are unable to be civil, constructive, respectful, and mature then please just move along.
TLDR:
AoC does not need to have PvP as its sole focus. It needs to engage all players and playstyles.
The game seems to be far too focused on PvP. And aside from niche PvP games and EvE... All PvP focused MMORPGs have failed or at the very least been unsuccessful. Since I started playing MMOs in 1998 I have watched all except a few be successful. None of the successful MMOs was solely PvP focused.
A lot of us already see AoC as just ArcheAge 2.0 and that brings its concerns. But the main one being the lack of content outside of PvP. PvP is awesome, fun, and well needed. But it can't be everything for end-game content. ArcheAge crashed and burned in no small part to people just flat out getting bored of the constant conflicts, community toxicity, and lack of stuff to do. And I see all three with AoC, and it hasn't even been released yet.
I would encourage the Dev Team to make similar changes that New World has done now. New World started out as a trash PvP focused game. I Alpha tested it from the start. AGS kept asking us for feedback, listened, and make the big changes needed. New World is going to release now and be hugely successful. It's now a nice hybrid model of both PvP and PvE. It has something to do for ALL players. Not just those of us who want to PvP.
I've invested heavily in AoC, so I am only wishing the game the best. But I have my concerns, and they are completely valid. Thousands of people in the Discord agree as well. I think a small vocal minority in the AoC community is helping AoC down a path of complete failure if the games end game content is not diversified for everyone and not just a select few.
I understand if you don't agree and I welcome your opinion. However if your opinion is AoC is just for PvP, don't play the game. Then please don't bother even posting here. If you are unable to be civil, constructive, respectful, and mature then please just move along.
TLDR:
AoC does not need to have PvP as its sole focus. It needs to engage all players and playstyles.
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Comments
This game is more than just pvp, pve, pvx, and crafting, but will also be heavily enjoyed by casual players and the rp community. By casual, i mean it isn't a rush to get to end game and min/ max everything, you can do what you want at your own pace. The amount of people that are interested in this game just to decorate their house or run a tavern is significant.
I don't think you should underestimate the quantity and quality of PvE content. How many dungeons did they have in the Alpha 1 island? And that was only 1/5 of the world size. We also know that there will be some sort of story line that will be PvE related, and instanced for those that don't want the PvX experience.
It also depend of the Number. Usually Min/Max Meta people are a small amount of Casual player. So even mix/Max player might not even control the world as much as we think.
I think more Casual Player living in the Node doing gathering and RP their Houses might have a stronger control sinse their number might impact more the Mayorship vote than a few Min/Maxer.
In term of war tough they might have a stronger control sinse their fighting force might be stronger. But even there if they lost the mayor vote their node might not even want to fight agains another one.
The only thing that bother me the most is the Death Penalty. Im sure somes peoples will their to abuse it. By attacking players
Ashes does have something for nearly everyone, the crafter, the gatherer, the raider and the pvper. That doesn't mean it's going to line up with each individual person's preferences in each area. The pvper might want full loot drop, consequence free at all times pvp, not happening in Ashes. The raider might want every raid to be instanced and accessed by teleportation, not happening in Ashes. But both groups are catered to regardless.
All pvp focused mmorpgs have not failed. You list Eve, that's one. Albion Online, Mortal Online series, Darkfall series, Black Desert, Lineage, the survival mmos like Atlas, Ark and Conan...that's all just off the top of my head, there's a lot more than that. There's definitely a market for pvp focused mmos. It's undeniable. But if you look at the list of pvp focused mmos you begin to see a pattern. Many of them are underfunded, p2w, full loot toxicity, feature incomplete, buggy messes.
Ashes is looking to avoid all of that and actually make a good game. Whether or not it's a "pvp focused" game is up for debate. In a sense, it's neutral. You can't turn pvp off and you must do some form of pve to progress. You will be forced at times to do both. Pvx as they call it.
I disagree about Archeage. I can only speak for my server, but it failed primarily because of p2w. As soon as the thunderstruck log p2w hit my server's population started dropping drastically. On top of that, we had already been dealing with p2w for months. There already were p2w'd out of their minds players running around who could take on 5, 10, 15 players with ease. The thunderstruck log update let everyone know that not only were the devs not going to fix that, they were doubling down on the p2w. Why am I sitting here planting these crops on my farms for the 1000th time to make money when others can just buy all the best gear in minutes with real life money? Absolutely game breaking.
And New World? New World is one of the worst thought out games I've ever seen. It has a lot of potential, and it has some time and certainly the resources to get it's act together. But it has big problems that need attention. I can't even begin to type it all out. End game content can be reached in 3 days, youtubers have proved it. The action combat is a buggy mess, streamers have proved it. The structure of pvp is a mess. What faction controls cities doesn't really matter, the rewards and penalties aren't big enough so there's no incentive to actually care about it. There's not big enough incentive to really flag up for pvp period. There are no faction population caps, so the pvp will be extremely unbalanced on many servers. Many servers will be dominated by one color, rendering the whole pvp system useless. The quests are absolute garbage, some of the worst I've seen in 25 years of playing mmos. Same thing over and over. The raids are use 4 or 5 abilities, spam left click, dodge around rinse and repeat.
In many respects, Ashes should look at what New World did and just do the opposite.
Well I could point at that most PvP focused games don't last as long as ones that have both healthy PvP and PvE... More to do makes more players happy as long as they can do both well
New World isn't even released yet. Ashes hasn't even tested any of the system's it has in mind to keep the game from becoming a pvp gankbox.
Guys already here to change the game. Like "nope nope nope, trust me guys I helped castrate the pvp in New World, I know what Ashes needs too."
I think the better the PvE content is in the game, the more significant the PvP will be, since without objectives to fight for, theres no incentive in the open world.
No, tried UO, was was on shadowbane, picked up wow in '07... Mostly played RTS games in early 2000's though.
It had the same corruption system and it was aline and well for 15 years at least, just selling expansions and requiring monthly subscription.
Much better than AA regarding PvP and PvE, not good for lifeskills.
In addition to the many, highly populated official servers there was and still is a vast amount of private servers.
So this "pvp games dont last" sounds like bs to me.
Tbh Lineage 2 still gets a decent amount of Twitch viewers thanks to the Russians. It had like 3k viewers or something when I checked a few days ago.
But yes, bad PvP games dont last, but neither do bad PvE games. Maplestory 2 was a PvE game and died almost instantly.
While the two main inspirations for Ashes were perfectly stable game models until they were mismanaged. Lineage 2 and ArcheAge would have lasted for decades in the western markets if it was not for greed. Both games were beloved by their communities. A great example is Steven dedicating his time and finances to trying to recreate the magic of those games.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
How good was the PvE in L2
PvX, risk/reward, and player interaction are the main focus according to Intrepid.
Let's not turn this game into yet another WoW clone in a trend that has lead to the decline of the MMO genre.