MMO Etiquette

So I just watched an early impressions video of New World. One of the impressions he gave was of his annoyance at the toxicity of the New World community.

Kill stealing for skins is a huge problem in New World. I played the open beta, before refunding, and was myself alarmed at how many would instantly skin my animal kills as if they were their own right.

The reviewer then went on to say that one person had called a culprit a bottom-feeder in annoyance. He earned himself a ban for 24 hours. The bottom-feeder? Yep, nada.

MMO etiquette was a high priority in my favourite game of old. Everquest. I believe it should be pushed and enforced in Ashes to attain the best community possible.

So, how does Ashes intend to maintain a strong and friendly community? One free of toxicity and neglecting of basic MMO food behaviour.

Or, if you like, should Ashes attempt to enforce a solid community by enforcing MMO etiquette?

In fairness, it has been my impression from following this game since before kickstarter that the community is friendly. However, not everyone that follows Ashes grew up with the rules of games like Everquest. MMOs have changed, but shouldn't basic courtesy be paramount?

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Comments

George_Black

Ye leave people alone... we are not children

JustVine

You are absolutely right George. Etiquette means nothing in this scenario. They should have a mob flag for nonworld boss/raid boss monsters. If you want the kill, get in their party or kill the player. Pretty simple. Other MMOs have managed to have this feature without any problems. The current system lets other people harass without the same risk v reward calculations.

daveywavey

I remember power-levelling in ESO, and I'd been in an area for about 40mins, nobody else around, just killing mobs to level up. After this 40mins, two players came along and started messaging me shit saying that it's "their" area and these are "their" mobs, and that I had to leave. Obviously, I didn't, but it just shows how people view certain parts of the game as "theirs", when it's blatantly there for everybody. The very idea of stealing somebody else's mob/kill/etc is ridiculous. If it's there, it's there for everybody. I didn't care that they'd joined in after I'd already been there for 40mins. I certainly didn't report them. They had just as much right to be there as I did.

nidriks

George Black wrote: »

The OP complained about people taking his skin in NW. Well that's what happens when you listen to weak minded people and you create yet another mmo in which you cant kill another player in the open world without their consent for PvP.

How about you let the developers say what actions merrit ban and you can get your notion of etiquette and shvt.
Is that mature enough for ya?

To be fair, I thought it obvious that I asked a general question about etiquette, or rules, in MMOs. I used the stealing of skinning corpses as an example because that is the example I saw in the video I watched.

I just thought perhaps Ashes might exhibit a better community than in many games of more recent years. Being an ass, a la Barrens of WoW, is one thing, but, as someone posted above, WoW did have rules back in the day. That was replicated in the classic servers to some extent.

I can see, from your words, that times have definitely changed. I guess the MMO world has just changed.

Move on. Accept. I guess it's all an old fella can do.

nidriks

daveywavey wrote: »

I remember power-levelling in ESO, and I'd been in an area for about 40mins, nobody else around, just killing mobs to level up. After this 40mins, two players came along and started messaging me shit saying that it's "their" area and these are "their" mobs, and that I had to leave. Obviously, I didn't, but it just shows how people view certain parts of the game as "theirs", when it's blatantly there for everybody. The very idea of stealing somebody else's mob/kill/etc is ridiculous. If it's there, it's there for everybody. I didn't care that they'd joined in after I'd already been there for 40mins. I certainly didn't report them. They had just as much right to be there as I did.

I am not talking about trying to claim the world. I'm just talking about sensible and unwritten rules to make the game more fun for everyone.

I guess what I am talking about, and if I was to start this thread now, after seeing answers, I would rephrase it, is anti-social behaviour.

Anti-social behaviour seems to be the norm in games these days. The example I used, stealing skins, is just an example. MMO etiquette is the term used to cover the unwritten rules that stop people being a jerk.

If you see someone killing wolves why do you have to run in, whilst they're busy with the adds, and skin the animal they killed? People talk about the right to do things in a game. Why is there a right to do that? If it was on the other foot then that person would ask why someone just stole their effort?

There will be people that take the rules to an extreme. It seems you met them. Many come from the EQ days where camping rules existed. I learnt MMOs with those rules and I know they don't cover a game like Ashes. Time does move on and the basic rules to keep everyone happy should change to fit the scenario. That is true and it's shame some are very rigid. I just want a scene where I am not surrounded by young people uninterested in the enjoyment of others. It's not all, I know that, but there is less regard for others in the 2020s.

I just believe those unwritten rules are a benefit to a community.

Don't kill-steal. Don't ditch groups mid-boss. Don't AFK indefinitely. Don't ninja. Don't repeat the same question 15 times in capitals in global chat. Don't spam guild invites. Etc etc. Some have faded in to obscurity, like don't train people.

Don't they help, or am I just an old fart? I am sure I'm not the only one who feels like this.

Gizban

George Black wrote: »

Hey @pyreal

The OP complained about people taking his skin in NW. Well that's what happens when you listen to weak minded people and you create yet another mmo in which you cant kill another player in the open world without their consent for PvP.

How the f did you get Hitler involved in there?
You are more of a dictator than me, demanding people to "behave themselves" in a video game.

If anybody hasnt used serious offensive language there is NOTHING that's going to force people to follow an "etiquette". Which "rEaL woRL" do you live in?

Telling me about laws...

You mean the laws that change on the fly, eg. an employer cant dismiss an employee for medical related reasons, yet in 2021 it was ok to do so?

Wakanda laws do you want in a video game?
If the programming code has been designed to allow an action IT'S legal.
If there is no code for, let's say a cleric/bard taking a selfie by a lv3 node, guess what? Taking selfies is illegal in AoC.

How about you let the developers say what actions merrit ban and you can get your notion of etiquette and shvt.
Is that mature enough for ya?

'Wakanda laws', selfies? Don't bring COVID into this. /e roll eyes
Drugs are bad, kids.

Stomping your feet and saying "Don't tell me what to do!" is about 4 year old mentality. And I feel that is the mental standard of your average millennial. Entitlement up the wazoo.

Hitler was having fun murdering millions, mean people 'ruined his fun'.

My point is that people can't be trusted to do the honorable or right thing, especially on the internet! They lose all inhibitions (if they had any) and treat others in a way that would put them in a hospital if they did it in person.

Gizban

daveywavey wrote: »

I remember power-levelling in ESO, and I'd been in an area for about 40mins, nobody else around, just killing mobs to level up. After this 40mins, two players came along and started messaging me shit saying that it's "their" area and these are "their" mobs, and that I had to leave. Obviously, I didn't, but it just shows how people view certain parts of the game as "theirs", when it's blatantly there for everybody. The very idea of stealing somebody else's mob/kill/etc is ridiculous. If it's there, it's there for everybody. I didn't care that they'd joined in after I'd already been there for 40mins. I certainly didn't report them. They had just as much right to be there as I did.

That's where a good /mute feature comes in handy.

Atama

pyreal wrote: »

George Black wrote: »

Hey @pyreal

The OP complained about people taking his skin in NW. Well that's what happens when you listen to weak minded people and you create yet another mmo in which you cant kill another player in the open world without their consent for PvP.

How the f did you get Hitler involved in there?
You are more of a dictator than me, demanding people to "behave themselves" in a video game.

If anybody hasnt used serious offensive language there is NOTHING that's going to force people to follow an "etiquette". Which "rEaL woRL" do you live in?

Telling me about laws...

You mean the laws that change on the fly, eg. an employer cant dismiss an employee for medical related reasons, yet in 2021 it was ok to do so?

Wakanda laws do you want in a video game?
If the programming code has been designed to allow an action IT'S legal.
If there is no code for, let's say a cleric/bard taking a selfie by a lv3 node, guess what? Taking selfies is illegal in AoC.

How about you let the developers say what actions merrit ban and you can get your notion of etiquette and shvt.
Is that mature enough for ya?

'Wakanda laws', selfies? Don't bring COVID into this. /e roll eyes
Drugs are bad, kids.

Stomping your feet and saying "Don't tell me what to do!" is about 4 year old mentality. And I feel that is the mental standard of your average millennial. Entitlement up the wazoo.

Hitler was having fun murdering millions, mean people 'ruined his fun'.

My point is that people can't be trusted to do the honorable or right thing, especially on the internet! They lose all inhibitions (if they had any) and treat others in a way that would put them in a hospital if they did it in person.

You say not to bring Covid into this then bring up Hitler.

I assume “Wakanda” was an auto-correct from a misspelling of “what”. George has done that in multiple posts. I’m pretty sure he’s not writing that intentionally.

George_Black

The word wakanda reminds me of what kind of. So there

SirChancelot

What I don't get in NW is if I kill something why can they loot it at all. They shouldn't be able to skin my kill, flagged for PvP or not...
Actually
You can skin my kill, if you're flagged... Risk v reward... Touch my shit and I blast you...

BaSkA_9x2

pyreal wrote: »

You actually have that backwards. Do you realize that?

'Manners are overrated' Says the piggy at the trough, eh?

I see why you think I had it backwards, I guess I didn't choose my words wisely.

What I meant was that etiquette is overrated as in people worry too much about it and might even go as far as demand Intrepid to enforce "rules" which ultimately goes against some of the concepts of Ashes.

In a game where being annoying might get you a hard time (AoC), you will think twice before annoying others. In a game where there's no consequences to anything (NW), you will do whatever you want.

I'm talking specifically about "bad manners" which do not involve PKing such as kill stealing, aggroing mobs to grief, etc which the game doesn't inherently tackles.

For instance, in NW people shouldn't be able to skin your kills for at least 15 seconds because there's no PvP (it's optional): that game has awful design. In AoC, if people are able to skin your kills as soon as you kill them, they might have a little surprise when they least expect it. That's how I want etiquette to work: not enforced by anyone other than yourself.

Obviously, I'm not saying there shouldn't be rules and punishment to people who abuse text chat, voice chat, upload dick pics to custom banners, etc.

Atama

George Black wrote: »

The word wakanda reminds me of what kind of. So there

I regret defending you. That is ridiculous. I should have known better.

Gizban

Atama wrote: »

pyreal wrote: »

George Black wrote: »

Hey @pyreal

The OP complained about people taking his skin in NW. Well that's what happens when you listen to weak minded people and you create yet another mmo in which you cant kill another player in the open world without their consent for PvP.

How the f did you get Hitler involved in there?
You are more of a dictator than me, demanding people to "behave themselves" in a video game.

If anybody hasnt used serious offensive language there is NOTHING that's going to force people to follow an "etiquette". Which "rEaL woRL" do you live in?

Telling me about laws...

You mean the laws that change on the fly, eg. an employer cant dismiss an employee for medical related reasons, yet in 2021 it was ok to do so?

Wakanda laws do you want in a video game?
If the programming code has been designed to allow an action IT'S legal.
If there is no code for, let's say a cleric/bard taking a selfie by a lv3 node, guess what? Taking selfies is illegal in AoC.

How about you let the developers say what actions merrit ban and you can get your notion of etiquette and shvt.
Is that mature enough for ya?

'Wakanda laws', selfies? Don't bring COVID into this. /e roll eyes
Drugs are bad, kids.

Stomping your feet and saying "Don't tell me what to do!" is about 4 year old mentality. And I feel that is the mental standard of your average millennial. Entitlement up the wazoo.

Hitler was having fun murdering millions, mean people 'ruined his fun'.

My point is that people can't be trusted to do the honorable or right thing, especially on the internet! They lose all inhibitions (if they had any) and treat others in a way that would put them in a hospital if they did it in person.

You say not to bring Covid into this then bring up Hitler.

I assume “Wakanda” was an auto-correct from a misspelling of “what”. George has done that in multiple posts. I’m pretty sure he’s not writing that intentionally.

It was hyperbole for emphasis.
Oil and water, I fear.

Gizban

George Black wrote: »

The word wakanda reminds me of what kind of. So there

Eh? Do you read what you post?

ImDunzos

it seems like any game that's designed to allow players to grieve/be toxic you'll have those players doing so. Some say its wrong others its part of the game but ultimately its up too positive players to band together and mitigate the smaller toxic community. I personally love instanced dungeons but that system is horrible with toxic party members, I wonder if having a reputation system would work or just be compromised in the game.

Kesthely

However, if the troublemaker has not killed anyone, just interfered with a player's progress then it will be the reacter who risks gaining corruption.

But this is not needed. Depending on class theres bound to be lots of crowd control. Just use crowd control untill he becomes enraged, fights back and then you can kill him without corruption.

Avoiding getting corruption is going to be easy as hell:
1) be in a guild thats at war with everyone, you can kill almost everyone without consequences.
2) Be a citizen of a node that has hostile relations with everyone else, you can freely kill everyone thats not a member of your node
3) harrass the player with non leathal skills till he fights you back

Atama

Kesthely wrote: »

3) harrass the player with non leathal skills till he fights you back

That will probably be against the TOS and might get you in trouble so I wouldn’t count on that as a viable strategy,

Yuyukoyay

Sounds like design issues than community issues. This kind of thing is what I mean with designing the game so you can't be toxic than freedom with absolutely no rules.

The game should have the illusion of no rules, but it still needs some game systems to dictate the rules so toxicity doesn't run rampant. MMO's generally weren't that toxic until WoW came out. Ever since then there wasn't a single MMO that wasn't toxic ever again.. Well Except Guild Wars 2 and FF14. They got set ways they do things and usually abide by lineage 2/everquest etiquite for the most part. So I'd like to think that most of the old MMO community went there.

It's still mostly a community issue in the end, but it was amplified by doing nothing about it. The community shouldn't be hostile with each other from the very start. That is generally what breeds toxic communities. I mean look at LoL. That's got the worst community of any game because it's just pure toxicity. XD It's because the game doesn't give you a reason to be nice to anyone really. You generally aren't going to want to be nice to the guy going 1/10/1 on your team either.

Lineage 2 has some of the most out of control PKing a MMO ever had, but people generally weren't dicks to each other all of the time either.

The toxicity almost always comes from the rules being too lenient though. However silencing players because of toxicity will make them quit almost immediately. Also causes them to hate your company almost immediately.

WoW always rewarded you for being a dick until they turned off Master Loot. Did it too late though since the community was already a community of dickheads. Ninja Looting and women jokes are the majority of the drama in that game. xD They solved them now. No more Ninja Looting and no more women allowed in the game. Can't say I like the second solution all that much though. xD

George_Black

Atama wrote: »

Kesthely wrote: »

3) harrass the player with non leathal skills till he fights you back

That will probably be against the TOS and might get you in trouble so I wouldn’t count on that as a viable strategy,

Why would it be against TOS?

Kalv1441

I don’t see an issue stealing from another faction. If it’s the same faction, than it should go to the hunter who made the kill.

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