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Design Philosophy
Swifty00
Member
I had this thought when commenting on a YouTube video about Ashes, and I thought it was worth sharing here.
I think a large number of MMOs since WoW have had a hard time finding a good balance between pleasing the hard-core and streaming players, and the probably greater number of time-constrained more casual players. Even WoW as it evolved struggled and the forums became a virtual battlefield between the two.
I drew a parallel between MMOs and the world of sport. And this point centers on Game Theory.
A sport like tennis will never please both groups. Here is a game played in an environment that is almost exactly the same, except for cosmetics. And what one player does has a direct impact on how well another player does. If one player hits the ball very hard, it is going to directly detract from the other player, or players in doubles, being able to score points, or even hit the ball.
A sport like golf however, allows the players to compete against each other without their gameplay directly influencing the other. The spoils still go to the winner, but the loser is still able to score freely, and essentially enjoy his game unmolested. And there is an unlimited variety of environments that both can share.
In order to solve this design philosophy problem, Ashes needs to bear in mind creating "Golf" more than "Tennis". It isn't going to be possible to do it entirely. The nature of combat is virtually all tennis. But I am not really talking about the gameplay. I'm talking more about the reward structure.
In New World, cities can be captured by better players. Ownership of a settlement is really the ultimate reward in the game. To let one group of players deny another group of players the major objective of the game, permanently, and leave the other players with zero, is all tennis. For well over half the players of the game, their involvement is totally futile, and because AOE doesn't stack, and battles therefore take place between dogpiles, often irrelevant. The combat may as well be 10v10.
I think Ashes understands this. PvP is merely to test yourself and see how you rank competitively against other players. The main game IS the PvE content, and your amassed wealth and standing in the community a measure of that, PvP should be a lot of fun, and have its rewards, but those rewards should not be taken away from another player, or stop a player from playing the game, in a non-competitive way, because ultimately it will drive players away.
There is one exception to this and that is gambling. If you choose to opt in, then you can risk a certain amount to win a certain amount. Make the risk/reward sufficient then people will opt in. many games, including golf, handicap stronger players as an incentive for weaker players to compete. Again previous MMOs have done this very poorly.
Anyway I think the easiest way to sum up and deal with TLDR; is just to reiterate, more golf, less tennis!
I think a large number of MMOs since WoW have had a hard time finding a good balance between pleasing the hard-core and streaming players, and the probably greater number of time-constrained more casual players. Even WoW as it evolved struggled and the forums became a virtual battlefield between the two.
I drew a parallel between MMOs and the world of sport. And this point centers on Game Theory.
A sport like tennis will never please both groups. Here is a game played in an environment that is almost exactly the same, except for cosmetics. And what one player does has a direct impact on how well another player does. If one player hits the ball very hard, it is going to directly detract from the other player, or players in doubles, being able to score points, or even hit the ball.
A sport like golf however, allows the players to compete against each other without their gameplay directly influencing the other. The spoils still go to the winner, but the loser is still able to score freely, and essentially enjoy his game unmolested. And there is an unlimited variety of environments that both can share.
In order to solve this design philosophy problem, Ashes needs to bear in mind creating "Golf" more than "Tennis". It isn't going to be possible to do it entirely. The nature of combat is virtually all tennis. But I am not really talking about the gameplay. I'm talking more about the reward structure.
In New World, cities can be captured by better players. Ownership of a settlement is really the ultimate reward in the game. To let one group of players deny another group of players the major objective of the game, permanently, and leave the other players with zero, is all tennis. For well over half the players of the game, their involvement is totally futile, and because AOE doesn't stack, and battles therefore take place between dogpiles, often irrelevant. The combat may as well be 10v10.
I think Ashes understands this. PvP is merely to test yourself and see how you rank competitively against other players. The main game IS the PvE content, and your amassed wealth and standing in the community a measure of that, PvP should be a lot of fun, and have its rewards, but those rewards should not be taken away from another player, or stop a player from playing the game, in a non-competitive way, because ultimately it will drive players away.
There is one exception to this and that is gambling. If you choose to opt in, then you can risk a certain amount to win a certain amount. Make the risk/reward sufficient then people will opt in. many games, including golf, handicap stronger players as an incentive for weaker players to compete. Again previous MMOs have done this very poorly.
Anyway I think the easiest way to sum up and deal with TLDR; is just to reiterate, more golf, less tennis!
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Comments
Steven is a fan of MMOs like ArcheAge and Lineage 2 where PvP and competition is a driving force of the world. It seems to me like you just want a game like WoW or FF14 where players are basically disconnected from each other and cannot have an effect on anyone else.
You are very wrong that the mmo main dish is pve.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Design_pillars
The problem is that if you prescribe this playstyle to the entire playerbase, you get instanced content, reduction in player-to-player friction, players soloing bosses, reduction in social interaction.
basically it runs backwards against the MMO of MMORPG
I understand the goal of wanting to feel like you contribute even though there's a powerhouse that's unstoppable, that's why there are many different nodes of varying sizes. Pick the area you feel you can contribute the most or battles you feel you can make an impact in. Join a guild that needs more of what you want to do, such as crafting or a ship captain to ferry people across the sea. An MMO isn't meant to be "won" but rather experienced. When people talk fondly of WoW or other games they think about the times they enjoyed it and not the times they captured a city and made sure there would be no contest.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
You literally changed tennis to tenis. 😆
Or just make a game people want to play and not make a crash grab and shun fans. Both work really