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"Enable Default Skins" settings concept - Not "Hide Cosmetics" concept

ThreatherThreather Member
edited November 22 in General Discussion
I see a lot of people in discord and some others discussing this during live streams or dev questions. However, there is a take on this idea that I can appreciate it and can actually have benefits for the game in the following manners:

Location:
    In-game settings under Visual/Video would have an option for "Enable Default Skins"
What does this setting do?
    This would apply a Default Skin for each race (Male and female) that is within your drawing/rendering distance and prevents the equipped items, equipped transmog's and equipped skins
    This mirrors the same concept as Wars/Sieges but is utilized in all scales and outside of Wars/Sieges in all population sizes (1, 10, 200).
Why this can helpful?
    This would have an impact on a players performance by reducing the amount of unique objects to render. Same concept being used in Wars/Sieges to allow 100's of players to 'seamlessly' function in the same area.
    It can be used to help reduce the minimum PC requirements as well by having this option enabled. This could enable the ability to target a larger gaming audience that might have older gaming systems.

The downfall would be that a person's cosmetics they have gathered in game and/or acquired through the shop/store/backings would not be visible to those players with that enabled.
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Comments

  • ThreatherThreather Member
    edited November 22
    [Deleted]
  • George BlackGeorge Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited November 23
    I dont think you guys get the basic idea.
    People pay $$$$ to appear a certain way, ingame, to you.
    If they cant appear that certain way to the other players then their money wasnt well spent.

    I dont like the way 90% of the people customize their characters, but since cosmetics has become detached from gameplay, and an income stream for developers, I doubt you will ever get any settings option to hide visuals that other people paid for. It would hurt the sales.
  • Thanks for the reply, George. I think you misunderstood the reasoning behind the Enable Default Skins versus "Hide Cosmetics." I am assuming that you think I am against skins/cosmetics - which I am not. I am for seeing skins and transmogs, I want to see people's awesome looks.

    "Hide Cosmetics" discussions normally are saying that you hide full body skins and/or transmog options on gear and see all of the gear that the person has equipped. This would allow you to see if they are using light/medium/heavy armor. This is not what I am proposing and it is also not the reason I am proposing this change.

    In my post above I mention that enabling default skins is to help reduce the strain on a persons system when multiple players are in the same area. I hope this makes my post a little bit more clear. My title also has in it that this is not a Hide cosmetics post - because I am basically suggesting putting a full body cosmetic on everyone based on their race so there are greatly reduced number of unique skins to render at one time.
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    I think there are better, more effective, and well-established means of achieving the same thing. Reducing particle effects, lowering texture details, reducing draw distance, lowering shadow quality, and so on.

    Making a person look like a level 1 newbie just out of the portal isn't going to really do much of anything effective to help your graphics rendering, compared to the plethora of other options that affect your entire visual environment.

    The "your silly hat gives me lag" argument is a bit eyebrow-raising.
     
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  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Can I get glasses IRL that turn people's rolex watches and Jorden sneakers into sundials and flip-flops? I am not trying to devalue other people's purchases, I just want to see what people would look like in a Flintstones timeline...
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    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • If your system can't handle that much detail, just turn your graphics settings down.
    Daveywavey-member.png
  • Atama wrote: »
    I think there are better, more effective, and well-established means of achieving the same thing. Reducing particle effects, lowering texture details, reducing draw distance, lowering shadow quality, and so on.

    Making a person look like a level 1 newbie just out of the portal isn't going to really do much of anything effective to help your graphics rendering, compared to the plethora of other options that affect your entire visual environment.

    The "your silly hat gives me lag" argument is a bit eyebrow-raising.
    daveywavey wrote: »
    If your system can't handle that much detail, just turn your graphics settings down.

    You both are correct, these are also great methods to reduce the strain on one's system. The issue I am addressing isn't that a single unique hat gives me lag. It is the fact that I could be asked to process 200 unique hats, 200 unique legs, 200 unique boots, 200 unique weapons, 200 unique gloves and the list goes on with every visible piece of gear a person can wear.

    This actually does have a large impact on lag. That is the reason why Intrepid is already using this exact concept in their sieges to use a universal skin.

    I also made no suggestion to make them look like a "Level 1 newbie". I do not have a concept in-mind in how to make each individual skin look.
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Can I get glasses IRL that turn people's rolex watches and Jorden sneakers into sundials and flip-flops? I am not trying to devalue other people's purchases, I just want to see what people would look like in a Flintstones timeline...

    I'm not sure if you truly understood the reasoning behind the suggestion I made. This doesn't reflect the concept of reducing the strain on systems for processing so many unique objects in a single area at one time. This is a similar concept to a real life where people suffer some Sensory Overload, but instead oriented towards technology not having the capabilities to process what it is being asked to.
  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Alpha One
    To my knowledge, the tech you are talking about isn't something that is only active for sieges and instead is something that you will automatically see when your system is struggling to render characters on your screen.
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  • Threather wrote: »
    I see a lot of people in discord and some others discussing this during live streams or dev questions. However, there is a take on this idea that I can appreciate it and can actually have benefits for the game in the following manners:

    Location:
      In-game settings under Visual/Video would have an option for "Enable Default Skins"
    What does this setting do?
      This would apply a Default Skin for each race (Male and female) that is within your drawing/rendering distance and prevents the equipped items, equipped transmog's and equipped skins
      This mirrors the same concept as Wars/Sieges but is utilized in all scales and outside of Wars/Sieges in all population sizes (1, 10, 200).
    Why this can helpful?
      This would have an impact on a players performance by reducing the amount of unique objects to render. Same concept being used in Wars/Sieges to allow 100's of players to 'seamlessly' function in the same area.
      It can be used to help reduce the minimum PC requirements as well by having this option enabled. This could enable the ability to target a larger gaming audience that might have older gaming systems.

    The downfall would be that a person's cosmetics they have gathered in game and/or acquired through the shop/store/backings would not be visible to those players with that enabled.

    yes
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  • pyrealpyreal Member, Warrior of Old
    Seems like a Texture Detail slider would be much more effective than an option to chang Shameless Revealing Blue Robes to Peasant Robes.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Threather wrote: »
    I'm not sure if you truly understood the reasoning behind the suggestion I made. This doesn't reflect the concept of reducing the strain on systems for processing so many unique objects in a single area at one time. This is a similar concept to a real life where people suffer some Sensory Overload, but instead oriented towards technology not having the capabilities to process what it is being asked to.

    It was a joke. I would actually buy my hypothetical AR glasses from my example if it meant I did not have to see people wear socks with flip-flops though...

    I understand your intent, but the net affect of your suggestion is that it devalues other people's purchases for cosmetic items. Personally, I would prefer no cosmetics. I think I have beaten that horse into the ground during my time on these forums.

    Since cosmetics are both a permanent reality for us all in Ashes and good for the financial well-being of the game. I have to agree that things like your suggestion that reduces the value of cosmetics is not in the best interest of the game.

    Unfortunately, people do pay good money to show off. Until the day comes where we are all living in a Black Mirror episode where we all wear AR googles to filter out the things we prefer not to see. We are stuck seeing the games the way Intrepid and the buyers of cosmetics want us to see.
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    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Personally, I would prefer no cosmetics.

    Poor snail boi is crying...
    Daveywavey-member.png
  • pyreal wrote: »
    Seems like a Texture Detail slider would be much more effective than an option to chang Shameless Revealing Blue Robes to Peasant Robes.

    You can never block out my shameless revealing robe! Mwahahahahaha!!!
    Daveywavey-member.png
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Personally, I would prefer no cosmetics.

    Poor snail boi is crying...

    I bet he would be stoic enough not to shed tears over my preferences if he was earned via my in game performance and not with my credit card...

    That said, would the salt from a snails tears harm it?
    TVMenSP.png
    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • Vhaeyne wrote: »
    That said, would the salt from a snails tears harm it?

    You're killing hiiiiim! You're KILLING HIIIIIIIIIM!!!
    Daveywavey-member.png
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    That said, would the salt from a snails tears harm it?

    You're killing hiiiiim! You're KILLING HIIIIIIIIIM!!!

    vlcsnap-2021-08-01-11h29m02s517.png

    HOLY SHIT! There is a render now!? I had not even seen that until this moment.

    This thing is incredible.
    TVMenSP.png
    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • It does look pretty sweet. I'm looking forward to seeing my Grave Beast.

    Grave_Beast.png
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  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Always love the white on blood look. I was tempted to paint my Khorne army white and then just splatter blood on them liberally. EZ paint job.
    TVMenSP.png
    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • daveywavey wrote: »
    It does look pretty sweet. I'm looking forward to seeing my Grave Beast.

    Grave_Beast.png

    Oooooh, maybe it'll rise up out of the ground like the weird floaty jellyfish-mount-thing did.
    Daveywavey-member.png
  • unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Alpha One
    Here is the thing. For all the people who want to cry about there being cosmetics that they are being "forced" to see and pearl clutching about "mah mershun!" thinking they have found an argument that Intrepid will take about "it isn't about my jelly, but it is about performance!" They have already decided on it. The client will take certain areas that have heavy traffic (such as node sieges) and everyone will be given a default appearance while those conditions such as overcrowding in an area are occurring. Has been mentioned at least 3 times during development. It is not something you will be able to toggle. Look at the wiki under threat assessment if you need further references.
    south-park-rabble-rabble-rabbl-53b58d315aa49.jpg
  • KarthosKarthos Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    edited November 26
    Honestly, this is a good idea, very sound from a design perspective. It's very sad a couple chucklefucks derailed this because their feelings are hurt because all they saw was a threat to their entitlement.

    OP obviously has a very good knowledge base on how these systems work, and how computers generate models from a technical standpoint. Just putting in "sliders" doesn't fix the issue, when it does nothing to help reduce the amount of things your computer has to render.

    It's like telling someone they need to eat 100 hotdogs, and telling them it's easier if the hotdogs are store-brand generic hotdogs, and not gourmet. You're doing nothing to fix the fact they still have to EAT 100 HOTDOGS. It's about the quantality, not the quality.

    @Threather This is one of the best posts I've seen on here in a while under the topic of suggestions in order to make the game better. Fuck the haters. They have demonstrated they lack even the fundamental knowledge required to make a response, not to mention even rebut what you're suggesting. Well researched, well rationalized.
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  • dargrondargron Member, Founder
    Threather wrote: »
    The downfall would be that a person's cosmetics they have gathered in game and/or acquired through the shop/store/backings would not be visible to those players with that enabled.
    This seems like a pretty serious downfall in a game where PvP combat could happen at any moment. Here's how I anticipate such a feature playing out...

    Serious PvPers would default to this option, because they want to instantly and accurately know how their opponents are equipped (not to mention get the best performance out of their encounters). Gankers would quickly follow suit for the similar reasons, as they want to be certain of victory before they even engage. Soon after everyone else in the game will feel like they need to default to this option in order to even compete.

    It's an advantage, and if you give players the option to use it, they will feel they have to use it, because everyone else is using it. End result - nothing unique anywhere in the game, just a world of cardboard cutouts.

    Personally, I anticipate the negatives outweighing the positives. As others have mentioned, this feature has been advertised to be automatically employed by the game on it's own where it is needed for performance, so putting the option in the hands of the player seems redundant.
  • JahlonJahlon Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha One
    dargron wrote: »
    Threather wrote: »
    The downfall would be that a person's cosmetics they have gathered in game and/or acquired through the shop/store/backings would not be visible to those players with that enabled.
    This seems like a pretty serious downfall in a game where PvP combat could happen at any moment. Here's how I anticipate such a feature playing out...

    Serious PvPers would default to this option, because they want to instantly and accurately know how their opponents are equipped (not to mention get the best performance out of their encounters). Gankers would quickly follow suit for the similar reasons, as they want to be certain of victory before they even engage. Soon after everyone else in the game will feel like they need to default to this option in order to even compete.

    It's an advantage, and if you give players the option to use it, they will feel they have to use it, because everyone else is using it. End result - nothing unique anywhere in the game, just a world of cardboard cutouts.

    Personally, I anticipate the negatives outweighing the positives. As others have mentioned, this feature has been advertised to be automatically employed by the game on it's own where it is needed for performance, so putting the option in the hands of the player seems redundant.

    Again what theater is saying wouldn't give you this information.

    Theater is saying that there would be 18 default models.

    1 default model for each race male, and 1 default model for each race female.

    This would allow people who can't play the game due to hundreds of thousands of different items having to be loaded in populated areas, to be able to play with a lower overall quality due to only needing to render 18 models x the number of people in the area.

    PvPers wouldn't default to this model because it would give them no additional information. They wouldn't see the gear, they'd see the default model.

    This is no different than ArcheAage having "Default Player Appearance" which is what Intrepid is Going to have, but instead this suggestion is a halfway point.

    Normal Displayed Characters
    18 Models
    4 Models (Enemies / Allies Male/Female)

    Everyone will be able to see the gear type and tier on the buff on the player bar.
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    Make sure to check out Ashes 101
  • I like the idea of turning transmog off though. If I don't want to see your stupid transmog then why make people. There is value to some people in not seeing the transmog at all. So I'm not against having it as an option. Since it has 0 to do with gameplay I'm not against it. Especially because some people could appear in certain ways that may show you stuff you don't want to see.

    I'd even say I'd like the ability to turn off cosmetics on an individual level. So that I can ban the cosmetics on the first bsdm stripper I see in game.

    I do understand this isn't exactly what he is saying, but I'd like a few different variations on this idea. Turning off cosmetics should be an option, along with turning off all gear for the base model, and then lastly hiding characters all together past a certain number.
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    U.S. East
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    Yuyukoyay wrote: »
    I like the idea of turning transmog off though. If I don't want to see your stupid transmog then why make people.

    This is why I choose to play a game like Ashes of Creation, where there are no stupid transmogs, as opposed to a game like TERA Online which is full of trash.
     
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  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    @Yuyukoyay

    An opinion that is bad for the health of the game. If people can turn off cosmetics, then it lowers the value of cosmetics. This lowers the selling power of cosmetics. Then lowers Intrepid's income.

    It could very well be the difference between a successful MMO and another failed MMO.
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    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • Vhaeyne wrote: »
    @Yuyukoyay

    An opinion that is bad for the health of the game. If people can turn off cosmetics, then it lowers the value of cosmetics. This lowers the selling power of cosmetics. Then lowers Intrepid's income.

    It could very well be the difference between a successful MMO and another failed MMO.

    Exactly.


    If a handful of players want to run Ashes on their minimum spec potato, the rest of the playerbase shouldn’t be penalized for that.
  • Vhaeyne wrote: »
    @Yuyukoyay

    An opinion that is bad for the health of the game. If people can turn off cosmetics, then it lowers the value of cosmetics. This lowers the selling power of cosmetics. Then lowers Intrepid's income.

    It could very well be the difference between a successful MMO and another failed MMO.

    Not really. People in mass are probably going to enable them anyway. There are people who don't want any transmog in the game at all though. This would an option for them.

    I'd rather have an unpopular option that has no effect on the game. Than punish players for playing the game by showing them crap they don't want to see.

    There are a ton of players who said they wanted to see people with no skins so they know what they had to do to achieve the gear. This is an option more for them than anyone else.

    As for the people who bought the transmogs. Fuck them. If they want to buy shit in a game to show off how rich they are in real life I don't really care. They shouldn't have an automatic final say on any new options in the game though.
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    U.S. East
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    Yuyukoyay wrote: »
    As for the people who bought the transmogs. Fuck them. If they want to buy shit in a game to show off how rich they are in real life I don't really care. They shouldn't have an automatic final say on any new options in the game though.

    You do realize that there will be transmogs in the game you can earn equivalent to what's in the shop, correct? Are you saying "fuck them" to people who earn things through achievements via play? Because when you want to turn off all transmogs, that's what you're saying.

    By the way, people earned skins by funding the Kickstarter. The people who helped make this game possible by their financial support. Oh, and you might as well curse out Steven Sharif for showing off how rich he is by making a game like this possible through putting up a lot of his own money.

    You're truly a troll of the lowest order. You've gone way past just disagreeing with the way Ashes has been developed, and you're going flat-out into attacking large swaths of the community, especially those responsible for helping this game become a reality. It's clear that your opinion here is worthless, and that's assuming the opinion you're expressing is even a sincere one and not just role-playing (which I'm starting to doubt).
     
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  • Atama wrote: »
    Yuyukoyay wrote: »
    As for the people who bought the transmogs. Fuck them. If they want to buy shit in a game to show off how rich they are in real life I don't really care. They shouldn't have an automatic final say on any new options in the game though.

    You do realize that there will be transmogs in the game you can earn equivalent to what's in the shop, correct? Are you saying "fuck them" to people who earn things through achievements via play? Because when you want to turn off all transmogs, that's what you're saying.

    By the way, people earned skins by funding the Kickstarter. The people who helped make this game possible by their financial support. Oh, and you might as well curse out Steven Sharif for showing off how rich he is by making a game like this possible through putting up a lot of his own money.

    You're truly a troll of the lowest order. You've gone way past just disagreeing with the way Ashes has been developed, and you're going flat-out into attacking large swaths of the community, especially those responsible for helping this game become a reality. It's clear that your opinion here is worthless, and that's assuming the opinion you're expressing is even a sincere one and not just role-playing (which I'm starting to doubt).

    Don't care. It would be effecting so little of the community that it should not matter in the overall benefit of the game. You can use it both to lower the specs required and if you dislike skins overall. You aren't entitled for everyone to see your skin if it gets in the way of them enjoying or even playing the game at all. Special effects on these things can use the most resources.

    Realistically no one is going to do it if they like transmog. You can share your transmog with them.
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    U.S. East
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