Are you saying a high level character shouldn't be able to solo any low level group content? For it to be so it would mean that either there are no levels; the power difference between levels is minimal; the content is restricted for the appropriate levels; the content is instanced and requires a group to zone in (many ways to go around that); or the content scale with the levels of the participants.
That could be interesting, but I don't think that's the kind of game you're looking for.
Many of the responses to this thread are quite short-sighted. I think there should be dungeons that can be solo'ed, or else you'll lose a large portion of the potential playerbase. The AoC devs would be stupid not to include solo content.
Many of the responses to this thread are quite short-sighted. I think there should be dungeons that can be solo'ed, or else you'll lose a large portion of the potential playerbase. The AoC devs would be stupid not to include solo content.
We are talking about people wanting to make GROUP content soloable, but thnx for your response
Many of the responses to this thread are quite short-sighted. I think there should be dungeons that can be solo'ed, or else you'll lose a large portion of the potential playerbase. The AoC devs would be stupid not to include solo content.
Let me just say, @ClintHardwood is a 10/10 perfect name.
If the dungeon is designed with the intention that it needs a group to be completed in a certain level range, and it can be soloed before or during that level range. The devs have failed in their objective to create the group content they intended to create.
If a player enjoys taking advantage of the devs failings or the fact that they can now solo the dungeon because they have out leveled the dungeon. The content they enjoy was unintentional. This does not mean that they are wrong for enjoying it, but if they should not expect to be able to do it.
IMO, it should be normal for dungeons to lock you out after a certain level and gear score to preserve the challenge of dungeons, but many may disagree. Regarding Ashes being open world I would disagree too, but for a game like ESO, FFXIV or WOW my opinion would stand.
I like to play solo
I will be the guy to gank solo the guys that solo stuff in openworld
PS: It will always be guys that overthink stuff and do solo, because developers don't do that up front, or does not overthink the abilitys and strategys cobined can be posible to solo stuff, i bee playing for 10+ years, only thing to resolve is to see when the players upload on youtube, and dev's just nerf the shit out off ability/strategy, it will always be like that
A Massively Multiplayer Online game should never cater to the individual. Always to the group and community. This guy needs to go back to god of war and other single player games if he wants himself to be the focus of the games design.
A counter to this is I want to play an RPG. I want to dive into an immersive world. Other people make it feel more alive than a bunch of NPCs. I don't want to be social, I just want the depth.
A Massively Multiplayer Online game should never cater to the individual. Always to the group and community. This guy needs to go back to god of war and other single player games if he wants himself to be the focus of the games design.
A counter to this is I want to play an RPG. I want to dive into an immersive world. Other people make it feel more alive than a bunch of NPCs. I don't want to be social, I just want the depth.
A counter to this:
Play single player games. Much more immersive.
A Massively Multiplayer Online game should never cater to the individual. Always to the group and community. This guy needs to go back to god of war and other single player games if he wants himself to be the focus of the games design.
A counter to this is I want to play an RPG. I want to dive into an immersive world. Other people make it feel more alive than a bunch of NPCs. I don't want to be social, I just want the depth.
A counter to this:
Play single player games. Much more immersive.
Come now we all know that having a community of live players is much more immersive especially with all the data mining, botting, spoiling, toxicity.... I mean I can go on for hours listing all the wonderfully immersive aspects of having more players in your game.
I'm not against certain classes having the power to solo easy low level crap. Since it should happen for certain classes to be balanced in pvp or harder content. However, only with clever use of the abilities or sustain that is above average for certain classes.
I am against every class in the game being able to solo everything though. Hybrid classes are naturally better at that stuff. Overleveling stuff is different. That might happen, but I doubt you will really get a whole lot for doing that kind of stuff.
Come now we all know that having a community of live players is much more immersive especially with all the data mining, botting, spoiling, toxicity.... I mean I can go on for hours listing all the wonderfully immersive aspects of having more players in your game.
I know you’re being facetious, @Sathrago, (here’s a like for your post) … but the underlying issue is still important:
There’s going to be a lot of solo players that buy Ashes without considering that the better challenges (and better rewards) are going to be in group content and not solo content.
Years from now, when Ashes releases, we’re going to get posts exactly like the ones from @ClintHardwood and @SirChancelot11. Which then we can just link this thread of yore … and reinforce the fact that this game is an MMORPG.
I solo a lot in MMORPGs, I am not ashamed of this - in fact I enjoy the challenge. By why?
Firstly, I'll say up-front that I am not a fan of PUGs as I tend to find there is always that one person who will spoil the experience (PUG raids are even worse) so unless there is a strong guild structure that promotes grouping I tend to stick to solo as I only have myself to blame for my mistakes and also as I get older have less time to play.
Content and rewards should of course favor groups but since this is a sandbox game, excellence of play and levelling up your skills should also be rewarded even where this enables solo-play. In some games this might be PvP based or perhaps open world bosses where grouping is not requried to win.
I do think that a lot of people's preferences will depend on where you started out and for me this was Asheron's Call which I still compare all other games I play. This was also a sandbox game but had a vassle based system where players could swear allegiance to another player who was then rewarded with a small percentage of pass-through experience as the vassle levelled to help alleviate much of the grind at higher levels. More importantly though, this created bonds between players to encourage helping each other out (i.e. bad patrons did not keep good vassles for long).
AC was the most social game I have ever played but it was also a grind and so solo grinding was also a thing you learnt (I don't mean unattended combat macros which ruined AC for so many). Surving dungeons with insane re-spawn rates or soloing mobs that were much harder than you was a genuine achievement which you learnt to do well. This has always stuck with me and I don't really care if it takes me 20 minutes to take out a mob solo that could be easily taken out with a decent group.
This doesnt mean that I would never group, 40 player organized raids in WoW were brilliant fun, but I will never be inclined to randomly group (unless unavoidable) and I will always look for solo-able content for the majority of my levelling.
Having solo content in the game is important, you can't just have nothing for the player to do when everyone in his friend list and guild is offline.
However solo content shouldn't be the optimal way to play - what do I mean by that? Farming as 2 players should give you more total farm than those 2 players farming solo.
Also wow elites intended for 2 players were never intended to be only a "group" content - if you listen to interviews of wow designers they intended those 2 player elites as entry point for the majority of players to meet other players and at the same time it served for skilled/veteran players as a solo challenge in the open world.
Proclaiming that you can't do anything solo in mmo is just bad design, because you want to ease new players into group content step by step and show through the reward system that grouping is more effective play than being solo.
imho those 2man elites in classic wow was excellent design on their part, because it served multiple purposes for different players and it was most importantly a step between a full group content like dungeons and solo play
A Massively Multiplayer Online game should never cater to the individual. Always to the group and community. This guy needs to go back to god of war and other single player games if he wants himself to be the focus of the games design.
A counter to this is I want to play an RPG. I want to dive into an immersive world. Other people make it feel more alive than a bunch of NPCs. I don't want to be social, I just want the depth.
A counter to this:
Play single player games. Much more immersive.
They usually aren't though... Especially lately...
I'm not agreeing with that guys post. I shouldn't be able to do dungeons or raids solo... Unless I'm way over leveled or geared for that content.
But I like MMORPGs because their worlds are massive, and immersive with tons to go explore... I don't play them to hang out in a virtual pub and just socialize (not that there's anything wrong with that, its just not why I play games)
0
Options
mrwafflesMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Mostly Solo player here: first off I'm only solo because I have rare free times and like to just hop on and do stuff then hop off. I do enjoy group content but It's convenient to just have freedom to do what ever when ever.
I will say that I never really demand solo content. A dungeon as a solo has never crossed my mind. If it did I wanted to do it as a joke just to see how bad I would get rolled. As for other content, specifically leveling, I understand that grinding my not be as efficient as other group oriented content but I'm okay with that.
I much prefer group play, but having some things to do solo is also fine. Friends are not always online or maybe I just have 20 minutes to play, so being able to kill a few mobs or craft or work in my garden is fine.
But one of the things that drives me towards solo play is Discord. I find that it breaks the immersion somewhat and, I know that this is a bit off topic, I really dislike people who curse needlessly. It is like some 14 year old is trying to act grown up by dropping the Fbomb every fourth word. I'm no prude (no one who has done two deployments with the USMC is), but I'll turn off discord and drop the group rather than put up with listing to it.
This kind of thing is one of the foundations of why Western mmorpg's has almost died out in the last decade, while in the East, mmorpg's are very much alive and well. In the west, the mmorpg world has become dominated by solo-oriented, pvp, no-content, fast-paced games. They have far more in common with shooter games as with mmorpg's. And they are all dead. The only such game that is still doing half okay is: Black Desert Online, everything else dead. And along with this solo-centric gameplay, games without any content, called "surival mmorpg...." have also emerged, none of them is doing well.
On the contrary, the most successful mmorpg games are based on the opposite, just look at Elder Scrolls Online or Final Fantasy Online, all of them are based on rich content, it's crazy how much content these games have, the immersive world, the community, the group play, etc. and most people don't care if they have the best weapon or armour or not. If this game is going to build its success on guild wars, solo play, group battles, pvp,...the servers will be empty in a few months, as they always are and will be here.
The problem are pve casual players, i m playing NW, and forums are ridiculous , i think devs need to stick with their vision and ignore all the cry...
They made the endgame content more difficult for people need to group, now all the pve players are crying because they can`t do the content solo as they done before, while pvp players are enjoying , noe 10% luck for loot was add while pvp on, there is alot of pvp in endgame zones like was supposed yo be....
This new mentality of players that need to solo/casual the whole game is killing mmorpg
Soloing dungeons should be almost imposible.. Maybe if you are very very powerful. Playing completely solo should be less ambicious... for example, my mom wants to play this game but she is the kind of player who just "picks flowers" and crafts potions, slowly leveling up. The whole siege megabattles to forge the world doesn't interest her much.
Comments
That could be interesting, but I don't think that's the kind of game you're looking for.
We are talking about people wanting to make GROUP content soloable, but thnx for your response
Let me just say, @ClintHardwood is a 10/10 perfect name.
If the dungeon is designed with the intention that it needs a group to be completed in a certain level range, and it can be soloed before or during that level range. The devs have failed in their objective to create the group content they intended to create.
If a player enjoys taking advantage of the devs failings or the fact that they can now solo the dungeon because they have out leveled the dungeon. The content they enjoy was unintentional. This does not mean that they are wrong for enjoying it, but if they should not expect to be able to do it.
IMO, it should be normal for dungeons to lock you out after a certain level and gear score to preserve the challenge of dungeons, but many may disagree. Regarding Ashes being open world I would disagree too, but for a game like ESO, FFXIV or WOW my opinion would stand.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
I will be the guy to gank solo the guys that solo stuff in openworld
PS: It will always be guys that overthink stuff and do solo, because developers don't do that up front, or does not overthink the abilitys and strategys cobined can be posible to solo stuff, i bee playing for 10+ years, only thing to resolve is to see when the players upload on youtube, and dev's just nerf the shit out off ability/strategy, it will always be like that
Good Luck
A counter to this is I want to play an RPG. I want to dive into an immersive world. Other people make it feel more alive than a bunch of NPCs. I don't want to be social, I just want the depth.
A counter to this:
Play single player games. Much more immersive.
Come now we all know that having a community of live players is much more immersive especially with all the data mining, botting, spoiling, toxicity.... I mean I can go on for hours listing all the wonderfully immersive aspects of having more players in your game.
I am against every class in the game being able to solo everything though. Hybrid classes are naturally better at that stuff. Overleveling stuff is different. That might happen, but I doubt you will really get a whole lot for doing that kind of stuff.
U.S. East
I know you’re being facetious, @Sathrago, (here’s a like for your post) … but the underlying issue is still important:
There’s going to be a lot of solo players that buy Ashes without considering that the better challenges (and better rewards) are going to be in group content and not solo content.
Years from now, when Ashes releases, we’re going to get posts exactly like the ones from @ClintHardwood and @SirChancelot11. Which then we can just link this thread of yore … and reinforce the fact that this game is an MMORPG.
Firstly, I'll say up-front that I am not a fan of PUGs as I tend to find there is always that one person who will spoil the experience (PUG raids are even worse) so unless there is a strong guild structure that promotes grouping I tend to stick to solo as I only have myself to blame for my mistakes and also as I get older have less time to play.
Content and rewards should of course favor groups but since this is a sandbox game, excellence of play and levelling up your skills should also be rewarded even where this enables solo-play. In some games this might be PvP based or perhaps open world bosses where grouping is not requried to win.
I do think that a lot of people's preferences will depend on where you started out and for me this was Asheron's Call which I still compare all other games I play. This was also a sandbox game but had a vassle based system where players could swear allegiance to another player who was then rewarded with a small percentage of pass-through experience as the vassle levelled to help alleviate much of the grind at higher levels. More importantly though, this created bonds between players to encourage helping each other out (i.e. bad patrons did not keep good vassles for long).
AC was the most social game I have ever played but it was also a grind and so solo grinding was also a thing you learnt (I don't mean unattended combat macros which ruined AC for so many). Surving dungeons with insane re-spawn rates or soloing mobs that were much harder than you was a genuine achievement which you learnt to do well. This has always stuck with me and I don't really care if it takes me 20 minutes to take out a mob solo that could be easily taken out with a decent group.
This doesnt mean that I would never group, 40 player organized raids in WoW were brilliant fun, but I will never be inclined to randomly group (unless unavoidable) and I will always look for solo-able content for the majority of my levelling.
However solo content shouldn't be the optimal way to play - what do I mean by that? Farming as 2 players should give you more total farm than those 2 players farming solo.
Also wow elites intended for 2 players were never intended to be only a "group" content - if you listen to interviews of wow designers they intended those 2 player elites as entry point for the majority of players to meet other players and at the same time it served for skilled/veteran players as a solo challenge in the open world.
Proclaiming that you can't do anything solo in mmo is just bad design, because you want to ease new players into group content step by step and show through the reward system that grouping is more effective play than being solo.
imho those 2man elites in classic wow was excellent design on their part, because it served multiple purposes for different players and it was most importantly a step between a full group content like dungeons and solo play
― Plato
They usually aren't though... Especially lately...
I'm not agreeing with that guys post. I shouldn't be able to do dungeons or raids solo... Unless I'm way over leveled or geared for that content.
But I like MMORPGs because their worlds are massive, and immersive with tons to go explore... I don't play them to hang out in a virtual pub and just socialize (not that there's anything wrong with that, its just not why I play games)
I will say that I never really demand solo content. A dungeon as a solo has never crossed my mind. If it did I wanted to do it as a joke just to see how bad I would get rolled. As for other content, specifically leveling, I understand that grinding my not be as efficient as other group oriented content but I'm okay with that.
But one of the things that drives me towards solo play is Discord. I find that it breaks the immersion somewhat and, I know that this is a bit off topic, I really dislike people who curse needlessly. It is like some 14 year old is trying to act grown up by dropping the Fbomb every fourth word. I'm no prude (no one who has done two deployments with the USMC is), but I'll turn off discord and drop the group rather than put up with listing to it.
I dunno. Once The Elder Scrolls 6 comes out, you likely won't see me for months.
You're not alone
I can't wait for the first mod fixes though, it'll be a broken mess on launch without a doubt
― Plato
You'll see me on Bethesda's forums complaining about bugs.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
Yeah, you won't see me at all.
On the contrary, the most successful mmorpg games are based on the opposite, just look at Elder Scrolls Online or Final Fantasy Online, all of them are based on rich content, it's crazy how much content these games have, the immersive world, the community, the group play, etc. and most people don't care if they have the best weapon or armour or not. If this game is going to build its success on guild wars, solo play, group battles, pvp,...the servers will be empty in a few months, as they always are and will be here.
They made the endgame content more difficult for people need to group, now all the pve players are crying because they can`t do the content solo as they done before, while pvp players are enjoying , noe 10% luck for loot was add while pvp on, there is alot of pvp in endgame zones like was supposed yo be....
This new mentality of players that need to solo/casual the whole game is killing mmorpg
If they did that, it would be an actual sandbox PvP game instead of the crazy hybrid shit they injected in at least minute.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
Fair
Skyrim was the last 'solo' game that had the depth I enjoy... That was 10 years ago
Must be nearly time for no. 6 then! Woop woop!
― Plato
Well, they wanted to release the mighty Elder Scrolls: Blades on mobile first, didn't they!
No, they delayed it because of starfield.
I'm assuming Starfield will be out before Ashes though. Looking forward to seeing what Bethesda can do with a new IP.