Camouflage

CROW3

Two posts got me thinking. Tyr’s post about ‘Road’ clothes, and a sub conversation on Sunboy’s post on quitting - what I’ll call ‘swarm ganking.’

In MO2 (and similar full-loot games), hiding is a perfectly reasonable strategy to protect the last few hours work gathering in the wilderness. Even seeing one player out in the world can trigger an immediate fight or flight response. Seeing a group of players just means hide. If you’re in the open, you just plan on dying.

So here’s the idea: allow players the ability to craft biome-specific camouflage costume that could help visually blend (e.g. not make invisible) a character into the background. Maybe it could also hide the character name tag (BIG benefit).

I’d add a few constraints. I think you could only craft camouflage for biomes you’ve spent time in. This may be an ability only rangers could have. These costumes could be BOE or BOP depending on balance. Since it’s a visual advantage not a mechanical advantage you could still take action while wearing the costume, but the nature of movement would make you easier to see.

Obviously, these costumes could also be used aggressively for ambushing others, but I don’t see that as a real OP issue. It’s not going to give a single player an overwhelming advantage in combat once they have been targeted.

I haven’t thought it all through - so curious what you folks think.

raylegh

I like the idea of having different sets for a different purposes instead of wearing all the time the battle gear. But I don't even know if it has been considered.

tautau

Good idea, I like it.

Should all biomes be equally subject to camouflage? Why should they be, or not be?

If you have a cloak to hide you on the open plains, your silhouette may still be visible against the sky. This would not be the case in the forest or the jungle. You are more easily spotted on a beach than in a tangled swamp. Where it is harder to hide you might find more valuable gatherables, or at least different ones.

Yes, Crow3, good thinking.

CROW3

@tautau - good thoughts. I think even with camouflage stealthy movement by the player is a good idea. So moving below ridge lines to avoid skylining, moving quickly between breaks in a forest, and staying still are going to help protect you. One of the reasons I’d like this to be a visual thing and not a mechanical thing is to allow players with better tactical sense the better chance to remain unnoticed.

If we wanted to add depth, types of camouflage patterns could also be introduced (e.g. dispersal patterns, disruptive patterns, etc.)

Tyranthraxus

I don't mind this idea. It'd obviously have to hide the nameplate, though.

With the current and limited information about the to-be stealth system from the wiki (https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Stealth), this could certainly fit somewhere. They currently plan 3 levels of stealth; There's plenty of side-mechanics they'll need to figure out, in order to complete Stealthing.

Boanergese

I guess this could be good to help players who are gathering to try to hide from a group. Similar to a deer hunter who wears camouflage in the woods to try to break up his pattern and make it harder for the deer to see him or her. This could also work out for bandits who want to hide just before ambushing a caravan.

In Eve Online people often mined in mining parties for protection and would pay people a portion of the ore as protection for guarding them from enemies. I can imagine that guilds will do the same thing with valuable resources with having some players there to guard while others gather and transport the goods back on mules or a caravan.

unknownsystemerror

Ahh, the dreaded "ghillie suit" and "hide my tag" conversation rises from the dead once again. @Nagash would be proud. This topic was beat to death in the early days of the first forum and Intrepid put out that there would be no "ghillie suit" or hiding nametags. But then again, those conversations also had there would be no prone or crouch. So......maybe?

CROW3

Do I win a prize for catching the first @unknownsystemerror in 2022? 😉

Olli1992

They maybe could make your nameplate fade away while standing still/crouching for lets say 10 sec..?
Maybe not near nodes but in the wild. That, combined with camo-kits would make solo gathering more possible and more exciting when you actually got away with it. Also it would make hiding on enemy ships (like sea of thieves) possible. Caravan ambushes etc..

Podgnil

CROW3 wrote: »

Two posts got me thinking. Tyr’s post about ‘Road’ clothes, and a sub conversation on Sunboy’s post on quitting - what I’ll call ‘swarm ganking.’

In MO2 (and similar full-loot games), hiding is a perfectly reasonable strategy to protect the last few hours work gathering in the wilderness. Even seeing one player out in the world can trigger an immediate fight or flight response. Seeing a group of players just means hide. If you’re in the open, you just plan on dying.

So here’s the idea: allow players the ability to craft biome-specific camouflage costume that could help visually blend (e.g. not make invisible) a character into the background. Maybe it could also hide the character name tag (BIG benefit).

I’d add a few constraints. I think you could only craft camouflage for biomes you’ve spent time in. This may be an ability only rangers could have. These costumes could be BOE or BOP depending on balance. Since it’s a visual advantage not a mechanical advantage you could still take action while wearing the costume, but the nature of movement would make you easier to see.

Obviously, these costumes could also be used aggressively for ambushing others, but I don’t see that as a real OP issue. It’s not going to give a single player an overwhelming advantage in combat once they have been targeted.

I haven’t thought it all through - so curious what you folks think.

100/100 agree I think to write the same post here, but ur was faster)) and I don't think it will be use for ganging, because this things should have less bonuses and stats. But it should have not only + but - too. For example u want to go geather, craft/buy set with camuflage, and big road bags, sounds good it's hard to gang u, and u can gather more resources per one run. But u have less stats, it's hard to fights with mobs and gangers and if u die u drop part of gathered res.

Maouii

the nameplate is a problem.
but if you take rogue in segondary class you can hide

McShave

A much better system for getting away from some bad guys would be to see them first and run away. If you can move as fast or faster then them, then they can't get your stuff. Maybe you can buy binoculars to increase your vision and/or a mount buff to run away?

Zarrath

This would be an awesome addition, I like the idea of player awareness being a factor, and it not rendering one invisible, just very difficult to see/notice/track. True tactical depth is a thing I don’t often see explored, at least at the player level.

There’s a lot that would need to be considered to be sure, but this is the kind of depth I would fully support and love to see.

Dolyem

I am down, just as long as there is a system to store all of the gear without it all taking up your entire storage lmao. Gear sets are cool but having only room for those and nothing else blows.

CROW3

Ha! Camouflaged mule too!

Atama

CROW3 wrote: »

Ha! Camouflaged mule too!

Chamuleon

maouw

Is it possible to only show nameplates after you target someone?
Could help to clear the clutter on screen too.

Dolyem

Honestly I enjoy the crouch/prone mechanic hiding a nameplate, simply because it is done intentionally. Just have it where if someone manually targets that person(not just spamming tab-target) they are targeted and the name plate is visible regardless of crouch/prone.

Happymeal2415

I like the idea of camo or some sort of stealth. Although I think it should be all classes with rogue/ranger etc being better at it than fighter or whatever.

CROW3

Agreed on rangers/rogue having the capability to be more proficient in stealth.

I think having this be a trainable skill (requiring points to get to certain thresholds) instead of a given ability would make it a more meaningful choice. If I’m some armored beast that can take a beating, I’m not going to care about investing points to hide more effectively.

Olli1992

Just building on all you guys said cuz topic is amazing.
How about f.ex a cloak (lets say fromsnowbiome)that could give you camo only on snowy areas etc like mentioned above. But the cloak would only give tier1 camo (not.good) This camocloak could be one piece of a set lets say 4 total That would each further add to the camo as a set bonus.
Or it could be an item with an ability similar to WoW's racial for nightelf "shadowmeld " you get stealth/almost stealth but it brakes with movement. Or a ability lets say "crouch for 5 seconds will make you fade "
Crafted pieces from stealthy snowleopards Or looted. Just a random thought what u think 😂

Olli1992

It would also make sense that players staying in a snow area or desert area longest would.kill most creatures with natural camo for these areas. For lets say crafting. Ending UP with the full set. Making them have better camo since they got most xp there.

Caww

I think of this along the lines of allowing "Green" players to advance their crafting and PVE activities without too much pain until they are ready to accept PVP conflict. Having other methods for noobs and pacifists to go about their game play is important (to me anyway). The bounty method constraint doesn't sound all too compelling if we want a lot of different play-style people to join the servers and let the game really grow and establish a long term presence.

tautau

Good idea, Caww, though players who pick on noobs will likely kill the noob quickly, acquiring lots of corruption for little gain, and soon drop their gear to the rest of us.

There was an old L2 joke about red players having the best drops in the game.

Dolyem

tautau wrote: »

Good idea, Caww, though players who pick on noobs will likely kill the noob quickly, acquiring lots of corruption for little gain, and soon drop their gear to the rest of us.

There was an old L2 joke about red players having the best drops in the game.

Only the impatient hunters act as such. I don't kill excessively, but I do kill. Luckily for the general population, I am figuring out a way to try to make a sort of coalition to kill bots excessively while also making it known to the server so they dont kill the players corrupted by doing the server a favor. At least in the beginning.

Dygz

It would be really cool to have matching camo for your nameplate instead of just hiding.
Could be part of the Stealth progression.
Also, could possibly be a subset of Thieves' Guild progression.

CROW3

Dolyem wrote: »

I am figuring out a way to try to make a sort of coalition to kill bots excessively while also making it known to the server so they dont kill the players corrupted by doing the server a favor. At least in the beginning.

Sign me up.

Happymeal2415

Dygz wrote: »

It would be really cool to have matching camo for your nameplate instead of just hiding.
Could be part of the Stealth progression.
Also, could possibly be a subset of Thieves' Guild progression.

I like the camo nameplate idea

akabear

I would like to see prone capability and when doing so one`s name tag hidden so that there can be ambushes & hiding.. would also need higher grasses/scrub

CROW3

Only problem with going prone is that there really aren’t any medieval weapons that are functional from that position. Also, laying down with a sword buckled to your belt is a serious pain in the ass.

Kneeling? No problem.

But try to lay down on your stomach and your weapon now has a mind of its own.

Boanergese

I think from a role play perspective that setting up a camouflage area might be interesting. Similar to a hunting blind like hunters use in the trees. The idea being that you could build the spot before you began to mine or gather lumber next to your gather site. You would have to have the materials for the camouflage kit, the kits would expire after a set of time, while hidden in it you would be hidden, but once you left it you would be exposed.

This way is a gatherer saw an unfriendly group of players they could try to hide before they were attacked, but the person would have to leave at some point to return to town with the gathered goods. Additionally, there could be areas where camouflage is not appropriate because the area is basically an open grassland. You might also require the player to have different sets of camouflage depending on the biome. The person may choose to hide and fight another day, but the resources he was harvesting are lost to the next group who can finish gathering them. It would be different than being a rogue or a ghillie suit a sniper would wear. It would also create an industry for crafters to craft the kits.