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Parkour, are some Archetypes more equal than others?

The UE5 walkthrough suggested that Ashes may have parkour, a change of direction from our previous understanding.

In a tabletop RPG some characters are better suited to parkour than others, whether it's dexterity, athletics skill or a movement spell. We accept that every class has limitations because that is the nature of the game.

If we put aside self interest ("I want my character to be able to do everything"), do you believe that Ashes should make all characters equally able to parkour?

Should there be a basic level for everyone, with some able to move/climb/spell across a parkour area slightly quicker?

What do you think?
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    Well, Mages can already float, can't they? So, they won't even need to.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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    SylvanarSylvanar Member
    edited January 2022
    These are things which can be considered post release. Not to mention is it worth the design complexity it would introduce during development when the core systems haven't been fleshed out yet?
    McMackMuck wrote: »
    If we put aside self interest ("I want my character to be able to do everything"), do you believe that Ashes should make all characters equally able to parkour?
    Isn't this taken care of when classes like rogues, fighter, ranger would parkour for their attacks but classes like like mage, cleric, bard would just wave hands and sing rather then flips and cartwheels for the same?
    "Suffer in silence"
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    @daveywavey Is that a joke reference to the old fireball animation? or the video sequence from Pre-Alpha?
    We saw Steven use the Mage "blink" ability to jump forward during the UE5 walkthrough. Without a cooldown that could be a significant Parkour advantage. Floating isn't necessarily OP if it is slow movement or long cooldown.
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    @Sylvanar I think they need to design the groundwork for parkour challenges in conjunction with player capabilities, not post release. Designing scenery that is too easy or impossible to traverse would be an issue.
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    McMackMuck wrote: »
    @daveywavey Is that a joke reference to the old fireball animation? or the video sequence from Pre-Alpha?
    We saw Steven use the Mage "blink" ability to jump forward during the UE5 walkthrough. Without a cooldown that could be a significant Parkour advantage. Floating isn't necessarily OP if it is slow movement or long cooldown.

    Yeah, it was the Blink ability
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Blink

    Although, now I wish I'd been funnier and was referencing the fireball. Thanks very much...! :'(
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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    @daveywavey You score pretty high on the entertainment value on average, with a mix of both good humor and well explained opinions. I'm just not always sure which one you're going for! Emoji's contribute the missing "tone of voice".
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    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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    I am new-ish to the game so I haven't read through everything yet, but perhaps parkour or other athletic abilities could be something "trainable". In which you start out at a basic level and the more you practice it the more it levels up allowing for more complex or unfailing parkour movements. Albeit some classes could/would have different abilities that would give them an advantage: the mage, the ranger, etc.

    Just a thought!
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    Some classes should be better than others at parkour, better jumps, teleports, etc. A rogue better than a tank.

    But every class should have their own perks, like its harder to level a tank than a AOE mage but at high lvl you have more value on group invites, healers dont hit hard but they have infinite sustain... that kind of things.

    I know this game aims to be very varied in classes and playstyle, but I just don't like when everybody can do everything, you lose class personality and uniqueness.
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    bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I would hope some can and some can't.

    Isn't this supposed to be a rogue ability?
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
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    AzryilAzryil Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I believe parkour was mentioned as an ability unique to rogues early on in development, though I don't know if that's changed more recently.
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    Hm… I also wonder: what happens when you take damage while climbing?

    If I see some dude parkouring his way up a mountainside, what happens when I shoot him? Does he fall?
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    AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    CROW3 wrote: »
    Hm… I also wonder: what happens when you take damage while climbing?

    If I see some dude parkouring his way up a mountainside, what happens when I shoot him? Does he fall?

    My expectation would be that someone who takes damage would be able to keep climbing unless they lose all of their HP, or the attack has some component that moves them in some way (like a "knock down" effect).

    That might be a nice augment for a ranged attack.
     
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    Atama wrote: »
    My expectation would be that someone who takes damage would be able to keep climbing unless they lose all of their HP, or the attack has some component that moves them in some way (like a "knock down" effect).

    That might be a nice augment for a ranged attack.

    Right? I’m thinking this would be good for using the environment to your advantage in open world pvp, but also thinking about sieges, if say rogues can climb walls to take out elevated defenses.

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    tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    If a cleric had a 'sleep' spell then that would sure stop the climbing mid-jump!

    Perhaps one of the 'traps' that can be set would be a sleep spell trap. That would be a nice defense to put around your node's walls. It would be interesting if a high-level crafter working with a high-level cleric could craft such a spell into an item which could be placed, temptingly, high on a wall....or just hidden well up on a wall for the rogue to stumble across during her climb.
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    It was the Rogue character who climbed his way into the castle during the video, wasn't it. Would be interesting if all players could do it, but only if the Rogue had gone up first to drop down the rope/ladder! Hehe
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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    palabanapalabana Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Well, Mages can already float, can't they? So, they won't even need to.

    Mages actually was planned to have a floating bubble ability. You can see them showcasing that in the pre-alpha videos before Alpha 0. It was removed.

    Speaking of parkour, I don't think every classes should have a super efficient parkour ability. Maybe climbing ledges, as basic parkour, is enough for all classes. The same video I mentioned above also showcased a Mage having the ability to move rubbles and open the entrance to the dungeon. A class without that ability but with a parkour ability, might be able to traverse around and find an alternate entrance.

    Parkour being a secondary class ability should help alleviate issues regarding it being unfair. With that, everyone have the choice, a give and take situation.
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    AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    palabana wrote: »
    Parkour being a secondary class ability should help alleviate issues regarding it being unfair. With that, everyone have the choice, a give and take situation.

    Being able to climb would just be par for the course.
     
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    akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I like the idea that certain classes might have different physical capabilities when navigating the landscape, all for it.

    PvP you will know which stragglers to pick off next! And learn quickly where, and when to run!
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    Did I miss something? There is parkour in the game now? Or are you interpreting the presence of mantling as the addition of parkour?
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    In the latest video I think Steven was playing a mage when he showed his character hanging onto a ledge. I think he also mentioned that just because you can hang there doesn't mean you can attack while you are hanging. I don't think we are going to be ninja leaping onto walls while dodging enemy attacks while throwing ninja stars.

    It would be interesting if rogues could climb walls during castle sieges and get to the top of the wall to attack defenders instead of breaching the wall. Of course, it would also be interested if that player could fall and die from fall damage if a warrior rushed them at the last moment and had a knockback ability. I think they are interpreting the mantling as parkour.

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    akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Boanergese wrote: »

    It would be interesting if rogues could climb walls during castle sieges and get to the top of the wall to attack defenders instead of breaching the wall.
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    I also wanted to see similar, and in addition that one specific class only could climb the wall and open the gates leading the defending team to keep on their toes!
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    neuroguy wrote: »
    Did I miss something? There is parkour in the game now? Or are you interpreting the presence of mantling as the addition of parkour?

    Apologies my original post is factually incorrect; limited parkour was planned for Ashes - there's evidence of jumping from platform to platform in pre-alpha and in alpha 1. Crouching disappeared after Apoc 'Tea-bagging' fallen enemies became popular with some players. UE5 walkthrough re-added crouching (subtle differences in the animation make a big difference!). Catching hold of a ledge and pulling yourself up (mantling) has been added in the UE5 walkthrough. I haven't seen recent evidence of climbing since pre-Alpha rogue Archetype video footage, although the UE5 walkthrough makes it seem only a small additional design increment (my laymen's perspective).
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    Wandering MistWandering Mist Moderator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    In short, no, not all characters should have the same amount of mobility. I believe that every character should have some kind of mobility in their kits, but there will obviously be a need for some to have more than others.
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    McMackMuck wrote: »
    Crouching disappeared after Apoc 'Tea-bagging' fallen enemies became popular with some players.

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    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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    DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited January 2022
    Ashes is a high magic setting, so everyone should have access to parkour, should they choose to pursue that progression path.
    Best if it's different methods based on race, class and social org.
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    tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    VERY nice to see you back, Dygz.
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    AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Dygz wrote: »
    Ashes is a high magic setting, so everyone should have access to parkour, should they choose to pursue that progression path.
    Best if it's different methods based on race, class and social org.
    I was thinking along the same lines.

    I’m just hoping they aren’t shoehorning in something that doesn’t fit the rest of the game and ends up getting underutilized or even becomes a hindrance.

    I’m reserving my judgment until I see it in testing though.
     
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    bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I thought it was more a dexterity based skill attached to the rogue.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
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    BoanergeseBoanergese Member
    edited January 2022
    I am ready to parkour. I have my magical cloud.

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