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Will AoC incorporate any blockchain technologies?

I've seen a few threads around this topic, but were specific to play-to-win, and cryptocurrencies. Blockchain can be leveraged without either, so I am just curious to find out if the devs are going to incorporate the technology at all.

I've immersed myself in blockchain for the past year, and especially on the gaming side, it is exploding....but mostly with crap. Notable exception is Gala (gala.games). I tend to live at the cutting edge of gaming (for the last 40 years), and while AoC has some new wrinkles on the MMORPG trope, it's not groundbreaking. Doesn't mean it won't be fun, which is the core attribute all games should have.

For me personally, now that I understand where our hobby is heading, it is REALLY hard to invest time and effort in a game where no matter what I accomplish in the game world, no matter how much wealth I obtain, or unique items I own, those assets will NEVER leave that world. And you can't glue blockchain on after the fact.

This is why I am asking the question of whether it will be included as part of its core.

Thanks,

Taylors
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Comments

  • A game that creates tradeable valuables that can be converted into real life money is the definition of a Pay 2 win game. That is something they have said will not be apart of this game.

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  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    The entitlement....
  • unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    unknown.png
    south-park-rabble-rabble-rabbl-53b58d315aa49.jpg
  • edited January 11
    Sathrago wrote: »
    A game that creates tradeable valuables that can be converted into real life money is the definition of a Pay 2 win game. That is something they have said will not be apart of this game.

    No, I do not agree with your definition. Pay-to-win means you buy items that you can use in-game that give you an advantage, much like a national professional team buying the best equipment for their players, to give them an advantage.

    Taylors
  • unknown.png

    NFTs, and Tokens, are just two examples of using blockchain. They could have an internal blockchain, for instance, to manage all transactions. In the future, that could be leveraged for those other two.

    Taylors
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    If you think gaming as a whole is heading towards blockchain, you will be disappointed.

    Some gaming developers will use it, but only if it adds to their bottom line. It will be the 2020's version of lootboxes.

    Gaming developers that want to make good games will avoid blockchain, just as they avoid lootboxes now.
  • Sathrago wrote: »
    A game that creates tradeable valuables that can be converted into real life money is the definition of a Pay 2 win game. That is something they have said will not be apart of this game.

    No, I do not agree with your definition. Pay-to-win means you buy items that you can use in-game that give you an advantage, much like a national professional team buying the best equipment for their players, to give them an advantage.

    Yes, but the core part of blockchain bs is that you can sell what you generate to other players or outside of the game. Meaning you can buy some stuff from the game and use it to pay another player for better gear. Just because there are extra steps does not mean it suddenly isn't pay to win.
    5000x1000px_Sathrago_Commission_RavenJuu.jpg
    Commissioned at https://fiverr.com/ravenjuu
  • edited January 11
    Noaani wrote: »
    If you think gaming as a whole is heading towards blockchain, you will be disappointed.

    Some gaming developers will use it, but only if it adds to their bottom line. It will be the 2020's version of lootboxes.

    Gaming developers that want to make good games will avoid blockchain, just as they avoid lootboxes now.

    Have you really researched what you just said? I mean, really put yourself in that community and looked at what is being developed? I have. It is the wild west, with very much the same feel as it did back when Id first released Doom as shareware. Square Enix, for instance, just announced they are going to start making these games. https://www.tweaktown.com/news/83697/square-enix-to-make-play-earn-blockchain-games-with-token-economies/index.html

    Believe me, the big players are watching, and in a generation or two of games, the odd ones will be the ones which do NOT have blockchain in them. I'm not a fanboy, or anything, it's just very clear the writing on the wall.

    Taylors
  • Sathrago wrote: »
    Sathrago wrote: »
    A game that creates tradeable valuables that can be converted into real life money is the definition of a Pay 2 win game. That is something they have said will not be apart of this game.

    No, I do not agree with your definition. Pay-to-win means you buy items that you can use in-game that give you an advantage, much like a national professional team buying the best equipment for their players, to give them an advantage.

    Yes, but the core part of blockchain bs is that you can sell what you generate to other players or outside of the game. Meaning you can buy some stuff from the game and use it to pay another player for better gear. Just because there are extra steps does not mean it suddenly isn't pay to win.

    What you are describing is a mechanic, and optional way to use those assets. It is, by no means, a requirement. I am playing one right now that allows you to buy assets, but you CANNOT sell them any other way, but in-game, very much like a standard MMORPG auction house.

    Taylors
  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I am sure many of the big companies will try it. I also think they'll find out the hard way that mixing human greed, RL money and games makes the whole thing toxic. It'll stop being a game, and start being a job to those who want to "play" them. People will be greedy and toxic and selfish and kill the experience. Very few will want to buy what they are selling, because why would you get involved with that kind of cesspool? :s
  • Sathrago wrote: »
    Sathrago wrote: »
    A game that creates tradeable valuables that can be converted into real life money is the definition of a Pay 2 win game. That is something they have said will not be apart of this game.

    No, I do not agree with your definition. Pay-to-win means you buy items that you can use in-game that give you an advantage, much like a national professional team buying the best equipment for their players, to give them an advantage.

    Yes, but the core part of blockchain bs is that you can sell what you generate to other players or outside of the game. Meaning you can buy some stuff from the game and use it to pay another player for better gear. Just because there are extra steps does not mean it suddenly isn't pay to win.

    What you are describing is a mechanic, and optional way to use those assets. It is, by no means, a requirement. I am playing one right now that allows you to buy assets, but you CANNOT sell them any other way, but in-game, very much like a standard MMORPG auction house.

    Taylors

    Yes and you are not *Required* to purchase anything in free-to-play games yet they have made the most money out of any game type in history "but I wonder how that is possible!?!?!"

    5000x1000px_Sathrago_Commission_RavenJuu.jpg
    Commissioned at https://fiverr.com/ravenjuu
  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Sathrago wrote: »
    Sathrago wrote: »
    A game that creates tradeable valuables that can be converted into real life money is the definition of a Pay 2 win game. That is something they have said will not be apart of this game.

    No, I do not agree with your definition. Pay-to-win means you buy items that you can use in-game that give you an advantage, much like a national professional team buying the best equipment for their players, to give them an advantage.

    Yes, but the core part of blockchain bs is that you can sell what you generate to other players or outside of the game. Meaning you can buy some stuff from the game and use it to pay another player for better gear. Just because there are extra steps does not mean it suddenly isn't pay to win.

    What you are describing is a mechanic, and optional way to use those assets. It is, by no means, a requirement. I am playing one right now that allows you to buy assets, but you CANNOT sell them any other way, but in-game, very much like a standard MMORPG auction house.

    Taylors

    I'm sorry if i miss-understand you but that sounds like pay to win.

    You can buy in-game items, i assume you mean with real money, and then sell them on the store for in-game currency. This means you can convert money to currency in game which is pay to win.

    Can you explain to me how you want it to be implemented?

    I'm not sure how you would be able to convert your in-game assets to money without selling it to someone which would mean they are paying for an advantage, aka pay2win.
    smallerLizard.jpg
  • maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I don't like your terminology - "Block Chain technology" is about a ledger system

    You seem to be asking for a virtual currency?
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • Sathrago wrote: »
    Sathrago wrote: »
    Sathrago wrote: »
    A game that creates tradeable valuables that can be converted into real life money is the definition of a Pay 2 win game. That is something they have said will not be apart of this game.

    No, I do not agree with your definition. Pay-to-win means you buy items that you can use in-game that give you an advantage, much like a national professional team buying the best equipment for their players, to give them an advantage.

    Yes, but the core part of blockchain bs is that you can sell what you generate to other players or outside of the game. Meaning you can buy some stuff from the game and use it to pay another player for better gear. Just because there are extra steps does not mean it suddenly isn't pay to win.

    What you are describing is a mechanic, and optional way to use those assets. It is, by no means, a requirement. I am playing one right now that allows you to buy assets, but you CANNOT sell them any other way, but in-game, very much like a standard MMORPG auction house.

    Taylors

    Yes and you are not *Required* to purchase anything in free-to-play games yet they have made the most money out of any game type in history "but I wonder how that is possible!?!?!"

    I have nothing against F2P games, been playing them since they began, as I played shareware since it began. But you can still have F2P games that incorporate blockchain technology. They are not exclusive to each other.

    Taylors
  • edited January 11
    maouw wrote: »
    I don't like your terminology - "Block Chain technology" is about a ledger system

    You seem to be asking for a virtual currency?

    Not on day one, I am not asking for virtual currency, but in the long run, I would be willing to bet that any game that cannot host some form of blockchain capability will be abandoned by its player base.

    Like I said, I've been watching games for 40 years, and the trends keep repeating themselves. We are in a nexus place right now, where MMORPGs especially, are stagnating, coupled to the rise of blockchain based gaming. When Shareware first came out, there were doubters who said, who would ever pay for a game that they give away for free. And when F2P came out, they said, who will ever pay for cosmetic changes in a game. Obviously, those naysayers were wrong. Today, they are saying, who would ever play a game where you keep what you earn in the game, and eventually turn it into assets for other games, or simply into cash. Of the three, I find it most surprising that this last one has the highest doubt.

    But that's just my opinion.

    Taylors
  • Nerror wrote: »
    I am sure many of the big companies will try it. I also think they'll find out the hard way that mixing human greed, RL money and games makes the whole thing toxic. It'll stop being a game, and start being a job to those who want to "play" them. People will be greedy and toxic and selfish and kill the experience. Very few will want to buy what they are selling, because why would you get involved with that kind of cesspool? :s

    I actually completely agree with you that the toxicity of play-2-earn games will make them a grind (though I could argue that many games right now are a grind). I've played dozens of crypto/NFT games now, and left most all of them because they broke the cardinal rule of gaming; it must be fun. Right now, what you see out there are games that put the crypto/NFT first, and the fun is glued on later. We all know it doesn't work that way, and very few of the game companies in the blockchain space understand that (again, Gala gets it). But here's the thing....some of them DO get it. And those games are looking extremely intriguing. I don't want to mention any in particular, mainly because this board is for AoC, and advertising another game seems inappropriate to me.

    Taylors
  • CROW3CROW3 Member
    Blockchain is a pretty basic concept with one use in managing crypto / alternate currencies. Enterprise business is increasingly using blockchain to maintain integrity of records with changes coming from a number of external integrated systems. But an MMO is a pretty closed system, so I'm not sure why you would need a blockchain.

    I guess I don't understand the point of the thread..?
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • maouw wrote: »
    I don't like your terminology - "Block Chain technology" is about a ledger system

    You seem to be asking for a virtual currency?

    Not on day one, I am not asking for virtual currency, but in the long run, I would be willing to bet that any game that cannot host some form of blockchain capability will be abandoned by its player base.

    Like I said, I've been watching games for 40 years, and the trends keep repeating themselves. We are in a nexus place right now, where MMORPGs especially, are stagnating, coupled to the rise of blockchain based gaming. When Shareware first came out, there were doubters who said, who would ever pay for a game that they give away for free. And when F2P came out, they said, who will ever pay for cosmetic changes in a game. Obviously, those naysayers were wrong. Today, they are saying, who would ever play a game where you keep what you earn in the game, and eventually turn it into assets for other games, or simply into cash. Of the three, I find it most surprising that this last one has the highest doubt.

    But that's just my opinion.

    Taylors

    Most People do not play video games for get rich quick schemes and you're just being silly if you believe they will/do. If players can inject money into a game or take money out of it that can and will be used in p2w. That is why you are getting a full on no. There is no maybe here because the whole blockchain system is about generating value in something that can be traded later on for a usable form of currency. I don't want it in this game, my friends don't want it in this game. and I can assure you most people drawn to Ashes of Creation don't want it in this game.
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    Commissioned at https://fiverr.com/ravenjuu
  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    maouw wrote: »
    I don't like your terminology - "Block Chain technology" is about a ledger system

    You seem to be asking for a virtual currency?

    Not on day one, I am not asking for virtual currency, but in the long run, I would be willing to bet that any game that cannot host some form of blockchain capability will be abandoned by its player base.

    Like I said, I've been watching games for 40 years, and the trends keep repeating themselves. We are in a nexus place right now, where MMORPGs especially, are stagnating, coupled to the rise of blockchain based gaming. When Shareware first came out, there were doubters who said, who would ever pay for a game that they give away for free. And when F2P came out, they said, who will ever pay for cosmetic changes in a game. Obviously, those naysayers were wrong. Today, they are saying, who would ever play a game where you keep what you earn in the game, and eventually turn it into assets for other games, or simply into cash. Of the three, I find it most surprising that this last one has the highest doubt.

    But that's just my opinion.

    Taylors

    I don't know if anyone doubts these kinds of games will have some kind of popularity similar to free to play games but one thing we have heard ashes will not have is p2w.

    I'd like to hear how you would implement this because I can't think of a logical way it would be implemented that wouldn't make the game p2w. You would most likely be selling the item to someone who would then be able to use it in game, which means they are paying money for an advantage, aka p2w.
    smallerLizard.jpg
  • edited January 11
    Sathrago wrote: »
    Sathrago wrote: »
    A game that creates tradeable valuables that can be converted into real life money is the definition of a Pay 2 win game. That is something they have said will not be apart of this game.

    No, I do not agree with your definition. Pay-to-win means you buy items that you can use in-game that give you an advantage, much like a national professional team buying the best equipment for their players, to give them an advantage.

    Yes, but the core part of blockchain bs is that you can sell what you generate to other players or outside of the game. Meaning you can buy some stuff from the game and use it to pay another player for better gear. Just because there are extra steps does not mean it suddenly isn't pay to win.

    What you are describing is a mechanic, and optional way to use those assets. It is, by no means, a requirement. I am playing one right now that allows you to buy assets, but you CANNOT sell them any other way, but in-game, very much like a standard MMORPG auction house.

    Taylors

    I'm sorry if i miss-understand you but that sounds like pay to win.

    You can buy in-game items, i assume you mean with real money, and then sell them on the store for in-game currency. This means you can convert money to currency in game which is pay to win.

    Can you explain to me how you want it to be implemented?

    I'm not sure how you would be able to convert your in-game assets to money without selling it to someone which would mean they are paying for an advantage, aka pay2win.

    Hmmm, to me, you are confusing play-to-win, with play-to-earn. In play-to-win, you pay money/crypto to buy items that give you some advantage, like better armor, better weapons, etc. In play-to-earn, merely playing the game itself, earns you either NFTs or crypto, which you might use to give yourself an advantage, but only if the game is a play-to-win mechanic. If it is not a play-to-win mechanic, then you earn just for the sake of earning, and maybe it only buys you cosmetic changes, just like in a F2P model.

    Does that explain the difference?

    Taylors
  • CROW3 wrote: »
    Blockchain is a pretty basic concept with one use in managing crypto / alternate currencies. Enterprise business is increasingly using blockchain to maintain integrity of records with changes coming from a number of external integrated systems. But an MMO is a pretty closed system, so I'm not sure why you would need a blockchain.

    I guess I don't understand the point of the thread..?

    He basically wants to generate a passive income while playing video games.
    5000x1000px_Sathrago_Commission_RavenJuu.jpg
    Commissioned at https://fiverr.com/ravenjuu
  • CROW3CROW3 Member
    Sathrago wrote: »
    He basically wants to generate a passive income while playing video games.

    Isn't that what Twitch is for?

    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • CROW3 wrote: »
    Sathrago wrote: »
    He basically wants to generate a passive income while playing video games.

    Isn't that what Twitch is for?

    Yeah but the studies are out on that gamble and the odds that you can make it are low. This new shiny gamble doesn't have clear stats yet so we can pawn it off for a higher value until people realize its basically the same thing.
    5000x1000px_Sathrago_Commission_RavenJuu.jpg
    Commissioned at https://fiverr.com/ravenjuu
  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited January 11
    Sathrago wrote: »
    Sathrago wrote: »
    A game that creates tradeable valuables that can be converted into real life money is the definition of a Pay 2 win game. That is something they have said will not be apart of this game.

    No, I do not agree with your definition. Pay-to-win means you buy items that you can use in-game that give you an advantage, much like a national professional team buying the best equipment for their players, to give them an advantage.

    Yes, but the core part of blockchain bs is that you can sell what you generate to other players or outside of the game. Meaning you can buy some stuff from the game and use it to pay another player for better gear. Just because there are extra steps does not mean it suddenly isn't pay to win.

    What you are describing is a mechanic, and optional way to use those assets. It is, by no means, a requirement. I am playing one right now that allows you to buy assets, but you CANNOT sell them any other way, but in-game, very much like a standard MMORPG auction house.

    Taylors

    I'm sorry if i miss-understand you but that sounds like pay to win.

    You can buy in-game items, i assume you mean with real money, and then sell them on the store for in-game currency. This means you can convert money to currency in game which is pay to win.

    Can you explain to me how you want it to be implemented?

    I'm not sure how you would be able to convert your in-game assets to money without selling it to someone which would mean they are paying for an advantage, aka pay2win.

    Hmmm, to me, you are confusing play-to-win, with play-to-earn. In play-to-win, you pay money/crypto to buy items that give you some advantage, like better armor, better weapons, etc. In play-to-earn, merely playing the game itself, earns you either NFTs or crypto, which you might use to give yourself an advantage, but only if the game is a play-to-win mechanic. If it is not a play-to-win mechanic, then you earn just for the sake of earning, and maybe it only buys you cosmetic changes, just like in a F2P model.

    Does that explain the difference?

    Taylors

    So while you play the game, your computer is used to mine crypto?

    I'm trying to figure out why you are being given money for playing the game.
    smallerLizard.jpg
  • Sathrago wrote: »
    CROW3 wrote: »
    Blockchain is a pretty basic concept with one use in managing crypto / alternate currencies. Enterprise business is increasingly using blockchain to maintain integrity of records with changes coming from a number of external integrated systems. But an MMO is a pretty closed system, so I'm not sure why you would need a blockchain.

    I guess I don't understand the point of the thread..?

    He basically wants to generate a passive income while playing video games.

    Wow, no, you really don't get it.

    I want my work in these games to be preserved in some way. I want all the effort I put in not to vanish, when the game vanishes.

    I would love to have a place outside these games where the unique items I earned could be showcased, decades after the game was gone.

    You seem to only be looking at the monetary aspect of this technology.

    Taylors
  • Sathrago wrote: »
    CROW3 wrote: »
    Blockchain is a pretty basic concept with one use in managing crypto / alternate currencies. Enterprise business is increasingly using blockchain to maintain integrity of records with changes coming from a number of external integrated systems. But an MMO is a pretty closed system, so I'm not sure why you would need a blockchain.

    I guess I don't understand the point of the thread..?

    He basically wants to generate a passive income while playing video games.

    Wow, no, you really don't get it.

    I want my work in these games to be preserved in some way. I want all the effort I put in not to vanish, when the game vanishes.

    I would love to have a place outside these games where the unique items I earned could be showcased, decades after the game was gone.

    You seem to only be looking at the monetary aspect of this technology.

    Taylors

    take a screenshot.
    5000x1000px_Sathrago_Commission_RavenJuu.jpg
    Commissioned at https://fiverr.com/ravenjuu

  • In play-to-earn, merely playing the game itself, earns you either NFTs or crypto, which you might use to give yourself an advantage, but only if the game is a play-to-win mechanic. If it is not a play-to-win mechanic, then you earn just for the sake of earning, and maybe it only buys you cosmetic changes, just like in a F2P model.

    Does that explain the difference?

    Taylors

    I don't know much about NFT/blockchain games, maybe I got it all wrong here. In the play-to-earn games I have seen, you can't really progress without spending(investing) a substantial amount of money making it p2w. Unless the NFT is just a cosmetic?

    It may be due to ignorance but I just don't see the need for NFT in videogames
  • CROW3 wrote: »
    Blockchain is a pretty basic concept with one use in managing crypto / alternate currencies. Enterprise business is increasingly using blockchain to maintain integrity of records with changes coming from a number of external integrated systems. But an MMO is a pretty closed system, so I'm not sure why you would need a blockchain.

    I guess I don't understand the point of the thread..?

    That is the point. WHY does an MMO have to be a closed system? Why is that better than an open system?

    I've played hundreds of games over the years, dozens and dozens of MMORPGs since 1980s, and all that history is gone. Not one item can I show you, that demonstrates that I was there, I had an impact, people knew me and what I accomplished. Those games are gone, and so are all those memories.

    An open system would allow us to take our special items we've earned in these games, and separate them from the game itself, to store however we choose, wherever we choose, even to potentially reuse them in other games.

    I find this incredibly appealing.

    Taylors
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    Sathrago wrote: »
    CROW3 wrote: »
    Blockchain is a pretty basic concept with one use in managing crypto / alternate currencies. Enterprise business is increasingly using blockchain to maintain integrity of records with changes coming from a number of external integrated systems. But an MMO is a pretty closed system, so I'm not sure why you would need a blockchain.

    I guess I don't understand the point of the thread..?

    He basically wants to generate a passive income while playing video games.

    Wow, no, you really don't get it.

    I want my work in these games to be preserved in some way. I want all the effort I put in not to vanish, when the game vanishes.

    I would love to have a place outside these games where the unique items I earned could be showcased, decades after the game was gone.

    You seem to only be looking at the monetary aspect of this technology.

    Taylors

    And I would like videogame studios to just focus on making games and NOTHING ELSE.
    Nobody owes you anything.
  • Sathrago wrote: »
    CROW3 wrote: »
    Blockchain is a pretty basic concept with one use in managing crypto / alternate currencies. Enterprise business is increasingly using blockchain to maintain integrity of records with changes coming from a number of external integrated systems. But an MMO is a pretty closed system, so I'm not sure why you would need a blockchain.

    I guess I don't understand the point of the thread..?

    He basically wants to generate a passive income while playing video games.

    Wow, no, you really don't get it.

    I want my work in these games to be preserved in some way. I want all the effort I put in not to vanish, when the game vanishes.

    I would love to have a place outside these games where the unique items I earned could be showcased, decades after the game was gone.

    You seem to only be looking at the monetary aspect of this technology.

    Taylors

    And I would like videogame studios to just focus on making games and NOTHING ELSE.
    Nobody owes you anything.

    Wow, why are you being so hostile?

    I am simply voicing an opinion, I am not stating anyone owes me anything.

    If you are not open to the question in my OP, that is totally ok, but you seem to be actively in combat with me over it.

    I am not in combat with you, and you've made yourself totally clear.

    Taylors
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