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Weapon types that feel misplaced. Wands and Potion Launchers.
Squeezy
Member
TLDR: Wands seem misplaced in the world of Ashes of Creation because there are no links between Tolkien-Like fantasy and "Harry Potter Style" wands. Please read the whole post for a more sound argument and let me know how you feel about wands in Ashes.
I was watching the Unreal Engine 5 reveal which looked really promising overall. I'm very happy with the new lighting systems and how many potential textures have. I also appreciated the locomotion improvements which made the game feel more immersive, even if I was just watching.
I also noticed Steven's wand. I know that there are a lot of weapon types coming up in Ashes of Creation, which I think overall is great. However, the wand seemed misplaced with the rest of the gorgeous snowy biome. So I took a look at all of the potential weapon types that Ashes of Creation will have.
Maybe it's just my point of view, but hear me out. Ashes seem to follow a classic, Tolkien-Like, fantasy world. Dwarves, Elves, Humans, Orcs. Obviously, things aren't one for one because this isn't a LOTR IP, but from the weapon list here, potion launchers and wands feel misplaced. Now I can't make a REALLY make a good argument on why wands feel wrong, it's more of a feeling, but I will try my best.
I won't focus on the potion launcher very much because the Intrepid Team is tentative about putting it into the game, and rightfully so.
Wands, on the other hand, we have all seen in Alpha 1 and of course in the Unreal Engine 5 migration reveal.
In fantasy, wands appear very rarely. Most famously there is of course the Harry Potter series which is completely separate from standard high fantasy. Historically, a quick search says that the first mention of wands was in Homer's Odyssey and Illiad. Some gods used them as well as a witch named Cerce who turned Odysseus's men into pigs. There was also some writing of wand usage in old grimoires like The Oathbound Book of Honorius and The Key of Solomon.
In more modern and pop culture we see several stories with wands in them:
C.S Lewis' The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe
MGM's - The Wizard of Oz
Disney's - Pinnochio
Disney's - Cinderella
Disney's - Sleeping Beauty
Blizzard's - World of Warcraft, (Magic Casters, Autofire Weapon)
Now I know, if World of Warcraft did it, why shouldn't Ashes of Creation. I think the reason the wand seems so much more immersion breaking in Ashes is that it is used as an active weapon unlike World of Warcraft where it's just ur right-click, ranged attack. Usually, you would see, Mages, Warlocks, and Priests stand around with their staffs, swords, daggers, books, and orbs and look very very cool. So when Steven is swinging his wand around shooting spells at the flower monsters, it looks a lot more like a Harry Potter game than fantasy or high fantasy.
There just isn't a lot of references in movies, art, and books that link Tolkien-Like fantasy worlds with wands. Maybe if Gandalf had a wand instead of a staff I wouldn't want to write this post, but let me know what you guys think. Am I the only one who thinks that the wands seem like they fit with the other weapons or is it just me? Let me know!
I was watching the Unreal Engine 5 reveal which looked really promising overall. I'm very happy with the new lighting systems and how many potential textures have. I also appreciated the locomotion improvements which made the game feel more immersive, even if I was just watching.
I also noticed Steven's wand. I know that there are a lot of weapon types coming up in Ashes of Creation, which I think overall is great. However, the wand seemed misplaced with the rest of the gorgeous snowy biome. So I took a look at all of the potential weapon types that Ashes of Creation will have.
Maybe it's just my point of view, but hear me out. Ashes seem to follow a classic, Tolkien-Like, fantasy world. Dwarves, Elves, Humans, Orcs. Obviously, things aren't one for one because this isn't a LOTR IP, but from the weapon list here, potion launchers and wands feel misplaced. Now I can't make a REALLY make a good argument on why wands feel wrong, it's more of a feeling, but I will try my best.
I won't focus on the potion launcher very much because the Intrepid Team is tentative about putting it into the game, and rightfully so.
Wands, on the other hand, we have all seen in Alpha 1 and of course in the Unreal Engine 5 migration reveal.
In fantasy, wands appear very rarely. Most famously there is of course the Harry Potter series which is completely separate from standard high fantasy. Historically, a quick search says that the first mention of wands was in Homer's Odyssey and Illiad. Some gods used them as well as a witch named Cerce who turned Odysseus's men into pigs. There was also some writing of wand usage in old grimoires like The Oathbound Book of Honorius and The Key of Solomon.
In more modern and pop culture we see several stories with wands in them:
C.S Lewis' The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe
MGM's - The Wizard of Oz
Disney's - Pinnochio
Disney's - Cinderella
Disney's - Sleeping Beauty
Blizzard's - World of Warcraft, (Magic Casters, Autofire Weapon)
Now I know, if World of Warcraft did it, why shouldn't Ashes of Creation. I think the reason the wand seems so much more immersion breaking in Ashes is that it is used as an active weapon unlike World of Warcraft where it's just ur right-click, ranged attack. Usually, you would see, Mages, Warlocks, and Priests stand around with their staffs, swords, daggers, books, and orbs and look very very cool. So when Steven is swinging his wand around shooting spells at the flower monsters, it looks a lot more like a Harry Potter game than fantasy or high fantasy.
There just isn't a lot of references in movies, art, and books that link Tolkien-Like fantasy worlds with wands. Maybe if Gandalf had a wand instead of a staff I wouldn't want to write this post, but let me know what you guys think. Am I the only one who thinks that the wands seem like they fit with the other weapons or is it just me? Let me know!
ᚺᛖᚨᚱᚦ ᛟᚠᚦᛖ ᛊᚺᚨᛞᛟᚹ ᛁᛗᛁᚱ
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Edit (clarification): potion launchers won't be in the game like they were in APOC, but we have heard they could be used in naval warfare in leu of black powder weapons like cannons.
Steven is not trying to make Verra exactly like Tolkien or Harry Potter.
D&D has wands. Pathfinder has wands. He's basing Verra off of his home brew Pathfinder game.
And then, Steven is adding what he wants to create his own world.
I'm not aware of Tolkien or Harry Potter having Warforged, but Eberron has them because that's what the creator of Eberron chose to add to his game world.
Steven has chosen to add potion launchers, so....that's what fits in Verra lore.
Other games use wands as well, it's fine.
Not at all, I don't want another WoW. I was just making an example of a fantasy game. I want Ashes to be Ashes, and I have a lot of trust in what Steven and the rest of Intrepid are making. I'm just saying wands feel out of place in a high fantasy setting. Could just be me idk.
ᚺᛖᚨᚱᚦ ᛟᚠᚦᛖ ᛊᚺᚨᛞᛟᚹ ᛁᛗᛁᚱ
Coming from a decade of an MMO that has wands as a mage weapon (EQ2), and having played an online ARPG for about 5 years now that also uses wands (Path of Exile), I see no issue with wands at all.
i would say that the wand thing looks kinda cringe. I feel like WoW Vanilla did a better job.
I don't have any problem with the potion launches, I actually like to see inovation like that.
I hope they will also add stuff like glavies, chakrams, cleavers, etc too.
It's not the size of the staff
It's how you use it
I'm not a mage at all but I really like the fact they're going to let us go Gandalf style
They do seem out of place.
Scepters and different hand waves/motions for attacking would be better instead.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
The idea of wands being associated with the occult and magic goes all the way back to the 13th century. Magical wands begin to appear in fictional stories in the 18th century. The concept predates all of the OP's examples by centuries.
I think this is being viewed through an extremely narrow viewpoint. It doesn't seem as weird if you become familiar with more fantasy culture and role-playing games than movies and MMOs from the last 20 years.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
Maybe because it was mentioned in the first sentence of the OP and it would be redundant to mention it again? (Just guessing, I'm not a mind reader.
ETA: Also, my post was a response to the OP, not anyone else in the thread.
I mentioned it in the paragraph above. Didn't want to mention it twice.
ᚺᛖᚨᚱᚦ ᛟᚠᚦᛖ ᛊᚺᚨᛞᛟᚹ ᛁᛗᛁᚱ
This is essentially my take on it as well. You just worded it significantly better than I could have.
edi: https://asheron.fandom.com/wiki/White_Virindi_Wand
Wand - you point it at things, shoot things, things die.
Staff - you raise it, chant some spells, point it at things, shoot things, things die.
Also staff - you are Gandalf the Grey wizard, you are facing a balrog. Somehow you believe meleeing it with your staff is the best idea. You both fall.
Jokes aside, in general in most fantasies wands & staves are treated as a tool to focus a mage's power, and the general impression seems to be wands are often used to cast small but quick spells, while staves are often seen when a mage's casting some high-power aoe epic spells.
So if I'm implementing the staves & wands in a game, my take would be either have them come with different sets of weapon-skills (like GW2), or have them act as amplifiers for different spells - wands amplify the shorter-cast, lower power spells, while staves would amplify the longer-cast, high power or aoe spells. Or may be just have wands focus on reducing cast time of all spells, while staves focus on increasing raw damage.
Not sure how Intrepid's gonna implement them in Ashes, but at least please make wands & staves play differently.
The last thing I'd like to see are stat-sticks like the staves/wands in wow.
Hopefully there will be some nice options for healers/casters or whichever class would use it.
All classes use all weapons. Clerics and Mages can also use swords, or axes, or bows.
There are other ranged magical weapons. Books, orbs, and scepters. If you don't like the look of wands, use one of those.
I tried a book in Alpha 1 and it was extremely slow and awkward, so I went back to my wand as my preferred ranged weapon. The animations were a bit Harry Potter-ish, when animations are redone hopefully they'll improve on it.
I never got a chance to try an orb and I never even saw a scepter, so I don't know what they were like.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
Yeah it looked good. I really liked the page movement. But it was a garbage weapon.
I was debating whether I should make a thread specifically addressing the wand's rigging.
It's being wielded like a tennis racket.
It needs to be wielded like a badminton racket. (it's all in the wrist)
The Harry Potter movies put a lot of thought and talent into how wand combat should look and it paid off.
I think it's at least good source material.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
Yes, but you also had to clearly enunciate your words as you were casting the spell. It wasn't simply the flick and swoosh motion.