If the squid are attacking the ship it is the same to me as a dragon or whale attacking my ship. Krakens attacking your ship is just a trope I am used to. You as usual missed a lot of nuance.
Basically, what I take from what you are saying is that you are OK with attacking and killing one intelligent sea creature, because you are used to see it happening in fiction - yet you are not OK with fiction depicting the attack of another intelligent sea creature.
If that is incorrect, all you need to post in a reply is which part of it is incorrect.
'So yeah, I have a bunch of reasons why I wouldn't be ok with attacking a whale for 'fun'. It'd be weird if they attack first, they just don't tend to in the wild. And even if they did, sharks and sea monsters have way more avenues for making them interesting to fight.
I could get behind a full pod adventuring party of whales trying to sack boats for the loot though. Whales/dolphins are thematically the closest thing in water to having bard abilities and bubble shaping summons. Whaling individual whales though... no thanks. '
You cut out the part about being quite keen on killing another intelligent, harmless sea creature. Have you changed your mind here, or are you just trying to ignore it for now?
If your position is that you are happy with players fighting back against whale aggression, cool. Not how I would want to see whales represented in a game, but cool.
If your position is that you are against players attacking non-aggressive semi-intelligent creatures, cool. I disagree, but your position would be coherent.
If your position is that you are against players attacking whales, but all for them attacking squid and other animals that display well above average intelligence for animals, that is where I have questions (such as those above).
I wouldn't scope creep the amount of work that Intrepid already have on their plate.
As a post release addition of content then reworking more detail into ships vs. sea monsters seems like an interesting avenue to explore. I would look at what percentage of the population wants it though, because land based improvements may impact on a greater portion of the player base.
However, if the game is to have a naval component, it needs to have naval content. I would consider adding in basic activities to do on the ocean (hunting whales for resources is fairly basic) to be basic naval content, and so not subject to that scope creep issue.
However, I would consider adding in various types of individualized sea monsters to potentially fall in to the category of scope creep, so I would be all for them being added at a later date - as long ass there is basic naval content at launch (or no naval content or ships at launch, with it all to be added later).
I would look at what percentage of the population wants it though, because land based improvements may impact on a greater portion of the player base.
I mean, a large part of the population might not be particularly on board with naval content because they don't realize how great it can be.
If the artist (Intrepid) has a vision and passion for naval content I think that, regardless of what the masses vote, they should pursue that calling.
At the end of the day one needs to remember that it was the unwashed masses of gamers, not corporate greed alone, which got mmo-rpgs in the bad state they're today. It was the masses asking for so much convenience in the first place.
You might as well ask if you can just go dolphin hunting. Whaling is symbolic of a horrible tendency of humanity to disregard the ecological impact of our decisions. Other than in fiction where it is a critical plot point, promoting it in any way should be avoided. I'm not saying to avoid fishing or deep sea fishing. I'm saying why whales?
We all (other than Japan and Norway) consider whaling to be bad because it has been illegal for most of our lives.
It has been illegal for most of our lives because we hunted most whale species down to numbers that were too low.
The idea wasn't to ban whaling, it was to discourage hunting any endangered species. Attributing an emption to just whales is borderline hypocritical.
Please, don't speak for all of us. Laws generally reflect the morals of society; morals are not based on the laws.
I think that you need to read up on whaling as an industry, and why different groups no longer support it. You are painting with a very broad brush here.
Regarding "emption" and "hypocritical." I don't understand what point you are trying to make here. Are you trying to suggest that I purchase whales? This is just an odd sentence.
If you are against whaling in a game, then you should be against hunting any form of lion, tiger, bear, monkey or tuna. Just as whales have some species that are endangered (not all whales are endangered), each of these groups also has members that are endangered.
This thread was literally about whaling. I commented on whaling. Start a thread about tigers (perhaps "Should Killing Tigers and Making Them into Ineffective Medicine be in the Game?", and I will probably say something similar (i.e., we can do better in a fantasy world than simply copy animals that humans poach in a lazy way).
I didn't use the example of tuna, but my position should be clear.
I mean, we already know we have horses, mules, foxes and turtles as mounts - but we also have more fantastical mounts like the bonestrider.
Half of those are domesticated animals, and, as you point out, are all mounts. This thread is about making a significant portion of (basically light naval combat) content centered around what many people would call one of the worst practices of humanity in modern times.
I guess a lot of people would rather kill a whale than a sea dragon or a Mosasaurus. I think that's sad.
I guess a lot of people would rather kill a whale than a sea dragon or a Mosasaurus. I think that's sad.
If you actually bothered reading, you would see that I am a proponent of both.
Any fictional world should have both the familiar and the fantastical.
I mean, we have oceans filled with water, we have horses, we have foxes, we have stone, iron and gold. The trees we have in game are somewhat generic versions of real trees, we have grass and other smaller plants.
This is because this is good basic world building. You build the world on the known, and add the unknown.
I would love a whaling system of fishing in the game.
I think it could also be interesting to make whales in the world a finite number, requiring a long time for them to respawn, so long as there are whales left to reproduce.
This would crearte a cycle of whaling seasons where we allow the server to repopulate the whale species, long enough for Guilds and Alliances to rake in the optimal amount of profits.
Plus, that scarcity would foster increased opportunities for conflict and open world naval PvP. Perhaps even sabotaging other Guild's ships etc.
I could also be that the first large Guilds with naval capabilities will extinguish the whaling population entirely as soon as they can. This would suck for other players, but imagine the server lore around the Great Whale Hunt and subsequent extinction. Plus the fact that said Guild would then be the sole owner of whatever resources whales would drop. Hording them over time and artificially inflating their prices due to their monopoly of them.
This could then further lead to more PvP, caravan assaults, sieges etc.
I would prefer if they dipped into ancient sea monsters for this one, instead of whales specifically. Firstly because they are way cooler to hunt and they fight back. Secondly, whaling quickly gets political, and it's an easily avoidable controversy by simply exchanging whales for sea monsters.
Let's get some of these guys, Verra style:
I really like this idea. Something along these lines. Fighting semi-mythical creatures sounds fun!
Comments
You cut out the part about being quite keen on killing another intelligent, harmless sea creature. Have you changed your mind here, or are you just trying to ignore it for now?
If your position is that you are happy with players fighting back against whale aggression, cool. Not how I would want to see whales represented in a game, but cool.
If your position is that you are against players attacking non-aggressive semi-intelligent creatures, cool. I disagree, but your position would be coherent.
If your position is that you are against players attacking whales, but all for them attacking squid and other animals that display well above average intelligence for animals, that is where I have questions (such as those above).
As a post release addition of content then reworking more detail into ships vs. sea monsters seems like an interesting avenue to explore. I would look at what percentage of the population wants it though, because land based improvements may impact on a greater portion of the player base.
However, if the game is to have a naval component, it needs to have naval content. I would consider adding in basic activities to do on the ocean (hunting whales for resources is fairly basic) to be basic naval content, and so not subject to that scope creep issue.
However, I would consider adding in various types of individualized sea monsters to potentially fall in to the category of scope creep, so I would be all for them being added at a later date - as long ass there is basic naval content at launch (or no naval content or ships at launch, with it all to be added later).
I mean, a large part of the population might not be particularly on board with naval content because they don't realize how great it can be.
If the artist (Intrepid) has a vision and passion for naval content I think that, regardless of what the masses vote, they should pursue that calling.
At the end of the day one needs to remember that it was the unwashed masses of gamers, not corporate greed alone, which got mmo-rpgs in the bad state they're today. It was the masses asking for so much convenience in the first place.
Point to where I said it was the same government.
Oh, you can't, because I didn't say it and you are arguing against ghosts again.
Sounds good to me.
Please, don't speak for all of us. Laws generally reflect the morals of society; morals are not based on the laws.
I think that you need to read up on whaling as an industry, and why different groups no longer support it. You are painting with a very broad brush here.
Regarding "emption" and "hypocritical." I don't understand what point you are trying to make here. Are you trying to suggest that I purchase whales? This is just an odd sentence.
This thread was literally about whaling. I commented on whaling. Start a thread about tigers (perhaps "Should Killing Tigers and Making Them into Ineffective Medicine be in the Game?", and I will probably say something similar (i.e., we can do better in a fantasy world than simply copy animals that humans poach in a lazy way).
I didn't use the example of tuna, but my position should be clear.
Half of those are domesticated animals, and, as you point out, are all mounts. This thread is about making a significant portion of (basically light naval combat) content centered around what many people would call one of the worst practices of humanity in modern times.
I guess a lot of people would rather kill a whale than a sea dragon or a Mosasaurus. I think that's sad.
Any fictional world should have both the familiar and the fantastical.
I mean, we have oceans filled with water, we have horses, we have foxes, we have stone, iron and gold. The trees we have in game are somewhat generic versions of real trees, we have grass and other smaller plants.
This is because this is good basic world building. You build the world on the known, and add the unknown.
Let's just get these bad boys back into the conversation. I'd love to see some of these fight back!
I think it could also be interesting to make whales in the world a finite number, requiring a long time for them to respawn, so long as there are whales left to reproduce.
This would crearte a cycle of whaling seasons where we allow the server to repopulate the whale species, long enough for Guilds and Alliances to rake in the optimal amount of profits.
Plus, that scarcity would foster increased opportunities for conflict and open world naval PvP. Perhaps even sabotaging other Guild's ships etc.
I could also be that the first large Guilds with naval capabilities will extinguish the whaling population entirely as soon as they can. This would suck for other players, but imagine the server lore around the Great Whale Hunt and subsequent extinction. Plus the fact that said Guild would then be the sole owner of whatever resources whales would drop. Hording them over time and artificially inflating their prices due to their monopoly of them.
This could then further lead to more PvP, caravan assaults, sieges etc.
This would happen instantly on every server. People never know when to stop.
Indeed.
Not only that, but the fewer whales that are left, the more each of them is worth.
Having players affect the games ecosystem didn't work as far back as UO.
At the very least, there needs to be a minimum spawn rate. However, I would just not tie the spawn rate to how many exist at all.
I really like this idea. Something along these lines. Fighting semi-mythical creatures sounds fun!