If Intrepid decides to show the social organization and/or religion on the nameplates, that's one thing. If they don't, your point falls flat again. Apples and oranges.
Perhaps they are going for a middle ground between blatantly showing what faction you are a part of as every other game does, and not making that information at all available.
Because that is exactly what this board is, a middle ground between what every other game ever has done, and providing no information at all.
I still really don't get the problem. Oh no, someone in the game can see what factions you are a part of. The horror!
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bloodprophetMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
If Intrepid decides to show the social organization and/or religion on the nameplates, that's one thing. If they don't, your point falls flat again. Apples and oranges.
Perhaps they are going for a middle ground between blatantly showing what faction you are a part of as every other game does, and not making that information at all available.
Because that is exactly what this board is, a middle ground between what every other game ever has done, and providing no information at all.
I still really don't get the problem. Oh no, someone in the game can see what factions you are a part of. The horror!
And after all these posts I still fail to see why anyone needs the information. Oh no the horror.
Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
If Intrepid decides to show the social organization and/or religion on the nameplates, that's one thing. If they don't, your point falls flat again. Apples and oranges.
Perhaps they are going for a middle ground between blatantly showing what faction you are a part of as every other game does, and not making that information at all available.
Because that is exactly what this board is, a middle ground between what every other game ever has done, and providing no information at all.
I still really don't get the problem. Oh no, someone in the game can see what factions you are a part of. The horror!
And after all these posts I still fail to see why anyone needs the information. Oh no the horror.
No you don't, you understand perfectly why there are some situations in which this information would be useful.
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bloodprophetMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
There zero reasons.
"Never give your enemies power over you."
Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
There zero reasons.
"Never give your enemies power over you."
If you believe that this information gives someone power over you, then you agree there is a reason for it to exist.
You just don't like that reason.
Woooow, that just truly a ridiculous argument
"Please post all your personal information. Social security number, credit card info, home address. All of it. This gives someone power over you, and therefore you agree this info should exist publically, even if you don't like it." Same exact type of logic as yours in the post above. Are you trolling? It honestly looks like you are trolling.
There zero reasons.
"Never give your enemies power over you."
If you believe that this information gives someone power over you, then you agree there is a reason for it to exist.
You just don't like that reason.
Woooow, that just truly a ridiculous argument
"Please post all your personal information. Social security number, credit card info, home address. All of it. This gives someone power over you, and therefore you agree this info should exist publically, even if you don't like it." Same exact type of logic as yours in the post above. Are you trolling? It honestly looks like you are trolling.
Trying to make real life parallels to this is stupid.
Do better.
If the only answer you have to this debate is that it wouldn't be a good idea in real life - you've lost the debate.
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bloodprophetMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Reason it can be used against you is the best reason for Intrepid not to aggregate it in one place.
Only athoritairians and enemies of your node have any reason to know anymore then base numbers regarding the citizens of a node.
I would expect to see in percentages:
How many of a certain race are citizens
How many of a certain relegion
How many are involved in certain social organizations
Showing who can do what and where they made a home is not necessary. Unless your attempting not control them or intend to siege the node making it easier to select your targets.
Hell if your gonna have that may as well list their alts as well.
Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
Reason it can be used against you is the best reason for Intrepid not to aggregate it in one place.
Only athoritairians and enemies of your node have any reason to know anymore then base numbers regarding the citizens of a node.
I would expect to see in percentages:
How many of a certain race are citizens
How many of a certain relegion
How many are involved in certain social organizations
Showing who can do what and where they made a home is not necessary. Unless your attempting not control them or intend to siege the node making it easier to select your targets.
Hell if your gonna have that may as well list their alts as well.
But it isn't in one place, it is unique to each node.
If an enemy of your node comes to the middle of your node to get that information, don't you think that is on you?
It's not like there is one place where all of this information is listed for everyone - it is all node specific, and held in that same node.
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bloodprophetMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I assumed it would be in the town hall. Why would it be anywhere else?
You believe the walls will be locked checking everyone's papers as they pass to make sure only node citizens can get in?
The OP is about having a board that lists this stuff.
That implies one place, a common place, among all the individual nodes in all the individual nodes, that someone can find this information all in one place. Sounds like it would either be in or near the town hall.
Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
Reason it can be used against you is the best reason for Intrepid not to aggregate it in one place.
Only athoritairians and enemies of your node have any reason to know anymore then base numbers regarding the citizens of a node.
I would expect to see in percentages:
How many of a certain race are citizens
How many of a certain relegion
How many are involved in certain social organizations
Showing who can do what and where they made a home is not necessary. Unless your attempting not control them or intend to siege the node making it easier to select your targets.
Hell if your gonna have that may as well list their alts as well.
If an enemy of your node comes to the middle of your node to get that information, don't you think that is on you?
Ok humor me on this one. Walk me through the steps where the node citizens can prevent anyone from acquiring this information. Since you say it's on them, there must be a reasonable way to stop it.
If there isn't an active nodewar going on between two rival nodes, the players from the rival node can just walk up and record all the info, without anyone the wiser.
If there is a nodewar going on, everyone is flagged to each other anyway, and you don't need the info in the first place. But let's say you do, you simply ask a guildie or a friend not in the war to record the info without anyone being the wiser.
Chances are there will be websites with lists of everyone, based on those boards, if the info is posted.
So please, elaborate on how it is on anyone in that node to stop the information being out there.
I hope the node lists have summaries and searches available too. Would rather not have to scroll through hundreds of names. An option to contact an individual could also be good. I don't really mind whats shown but it would be a good boon I think.
The OP is about having a board that lists this stuff.
That implies one place, a common place, among all the individual nodes in all the individual nodes, that someone can find this information all in one place. Sounds like it would either be in or near the town hall.
This makes no sense to me, can you reword it before I reply?
It sounds to me as if you are saying there will be a node board in each node, that lists all players from all nodes. I don't think this is what you are saying, but that is how it reads to me, so rather than replying to that, I'd rather just get clarification.
If the only answer you have to this debate is that it wouldn't be a good idea in real life - you've lost the debate.
No I just proved your "logic" wrong is all. It's ok, I know you can't admit to being wrong. I expect it.
No, you didn't, you proved that the same piece of logic doesn't hold true when you alter the parameters.
It's kind of like someone looking through a used car lot and saying they could afford a car, so you take them to a Roles Royce dealership and point out that they can't.
A statement or piece of logic that is true in one set of circumstances does not need to remain true if you alter those circumstances.
The statement that this information being available is fine in the context of a game does not mean that you can then transition that to out of game and expect the same statement to be true.
You and I both know that you know this. Stop pretending otherwise.
Ok humor me on this one. Walk me through the steps where the node citizens can prevent anyone from acquiring this information. Since you say it's on them, there must be a reasonable way to stop it.
Two points here.
The first is that if you are openly hostile to another node, and you left someone from that node just walk in to the center of your node to spend a good amount of time just looking at this board, then yeah, that is on you and your fellow node citizens.
Second, if you are hostile to another node, node war or not, they are not going to really care about the information on this board - unless it is the only way to identify citizens of the node in question, in which case that is just adding to the reasons for it to exist.
What they won't care about - if they are hostile to your node - is what religion or society you belong to.
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bloodprophetMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
The OP is about having a board that lists this stuff.
That implies one place, a common place, among all the individual nodes in all the individual nodes, that someone can find this information all in one place. Sounds like it would either be in or near the town hall.
This makes no sense to me, can you reword it before I reply?
It sounds to me as if you are saying there will be a node board in each node, that lists all players from all nodes. I don't think this is what you are saying, but that is how it reads to me, so rather than replying to that, I'd rather just get clarification.
No the node board would only list those in that node.
Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
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bloodprophetMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
The first is that if you are openly hostile to another node, and you left someone from that node just walk in to the center of your node to spend a good amount of time just looking at this board, then yeah, that is on you and your fellow node citizens.
So aside from someone openly walking into your node and declaring "I am from and enemy guild and we plan to burn this place to the ground!" How would anyone know?
James Bond and Archer are not good spy's regardless what you see on TV.
How could you tell the difference from a new player looking around and a spy looking to burn your stuff?
Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
Ok humor me on this one. Walk me through the steps where the node citizens can prevent anyone from acquiring this information. Since you say it's on them, there must be a reasonable way to stop it.
They don't care - that is not the use case for that information.
However, the original scenario was not about whether they had use for it, it was just that they were trying to get it.
And I did answer your question.
Since the information in regards to the citizens of your node is only on the board in that same node, if you are hostile to any other node and for what ever reason they wanted that information, you stop them getting it by stopping them going in to the very center of your node - which is a thing you would probably want to be doing anyway.
I mean, this scenario is not really relevant at all, but even if it were, all you need to do to stop people getting that information is doing what you would do anyway and prevent the enemy getting in to the middle of your node.
The first is that if you are openly hostile to another node, and you left someone from that node just walk in to the center of your node to spend a good amount of time just looking at this board, then yeah, that is on you and your fellow node citizens.
So aside from someone openly walking into your node and declaring "I am from and enemy guild and we plan to burn this place to the ground!" How would anyone know?
James Bond and Archer are not good spy's regardless what you see on TV.
How could you tell the difference from a new player looking around and a spy looking to burn your stuff?
I just want to get this straight here.
I'm working on the assumption that there will be an identifier of what node a citizen is from other than this board.
If we assume this is not true, then a few things change. This person trying to get in to the node all of a sudden is viable and valid.
So, we are now in a situation where we have a character from an enemy node trying to get to our node board to get information. How do we oppose that, when we don't even have any means of telling that this character is from that opposing node.
Well, simple, what we do is we go to that opposing node and we look at their board, and we get a list of all the citizens from it - which we have to assume is the reason this person is at our node board.
I still don't believe this is a valid point, as I think there will be other ways to tell what node someone belongs to. However, if this is not the case, it just adds to the use and value of this board.
Spying is about as much a part of the game as forums, databases and spreadsheets are part of the game.
Isnt this a desperate attempt to counter?
Forums, databases and spreadsheets are part of any and every game. Does spying fall into the same category?
Moreover these are things done outside of the game, not in the game. I dunno how these things are equivalent to spying in your mind.
If an enemy of your node comes to the middle of your node to get that information, don't you think that is on you?
What are we - People with actual life or NPC guards who will verify each and every person who enters the node 24x7? Because you cant reasonably suggest a way to stop this 24x7.
Well, simple, what we do is we go to that opposing node and we look at their board, and we get a list of all the citizens from it - which we have to assume is the reason this person is at our node board.
I still don't believe this is a valid point, as I think there will be other ways to tell what node someone belongs to. However, if this is not the case, it just adds to the use and value of this board.
So in essence every node is suppose to have all the information about all the players in the server? So we as players enter the game and just travel around collecting node information cuz that is what AoC is about now as per what you said cuz this 'list' would keep changing pretty frequently. At the same time, some of our counterparts are guarding the entrance to the node, verify people entering our node, wait for replacements, go to sleep and back to work the next day. Right?
What are we - People with actual life or NPC guards who will verify each and every person who enters the node 24x7?
If you are going to jump in on what is being said to another poster, clue yourself in on what has been said in relation to the statement you are quoting after the point you wish to inject your opinion.
I dunno how these things are equivalent in your mind.
The things listed are widely considered inherent parts of playing an MMO, yet none of them have any in game systems to participate in.
In the context of this discussion, I fail to see how you do not see these things as equivalent.
If you are going to jump in on what is being said to another poster, clue yourself in on what has been said in relation to the statement you are quoting after the point you wish to inject your opinion.
I like how you are saying I am wrong without saying anything about HOW I am wrong as if just saying makes it so. I read the posters comment, your reply and then quoted you fyi. So, I standby what I wrote in my previous post.
The things listed are widely considered inherent parts of playing an MMO, yet none of them have any in game systems to participate in.
Sure they are, its not like I am denying that, by they I am referring to forums, spreadsheet and databases. But now lets come to their purpose. Their purpose is to help analyze the game so that better decisions can be made about how to progress in the game faster. Now what is the purpose of spying? Personal gain and sabotage. Now please explain to me how these are the "same thing".
Now, since when is spying a part of WoW or some of the other MMOs out there for it to be considered an "inherent" part of MMOs.
If you are going to jump in on what is being said to another poster, clue yourself in on what has been said in relation to the statement you are quoting after the point you wish to inject your opinion.
I like how you are saying I am wrong without saying anything about HOW I am wrong as if just saying makes it so. I read the posters comment, your reply and then quoted you fyi. So, I standby what I wrote in my previous post.
I didn't say you are right or wrong, I said that aspect of the discussion has been had. I don't need to say you are right or wrong when I have already addressed exactly what you just asked.
Their purpose is to help analyze the game so that better decisions can be made about how to progress in the game faster.
No. The point of these things is to play the game at a higher level.
Forums are a perfect example of this. They are used to learn information about the game, sure. But they are also used to discuss social aspects specific to each server, to learn about player activities, to recruit guild members and to make other guilds look bad.
These are VERY similar things to what you would spy on other guilds for. Keep in mind here, you bought forums in to this discussion, not me. I am simply pointing out that they are not all that different.
But they are also used to discuss social aspects specific to each server, to learn about player activities, to recruit guild members and to make other guilds look bad.
Most of what you said is on point but since when does spreadsheet and database make other guilds look bad? There are hardcore guilds and casual/social guilds. Hardcore guilds make them, casual guilds don't make them. These are unique to the guilds who make them. Lets say hardcore guild A and B have a rivalry. Its not like they will make the information they have collected public. So how does this embarrass either A or B? Making other guilds look bad can only be done via in-game skills, progress and achievements. Spreadsheets/Databases dont have any influence there.
Anyway, I dont feel you have addressed most of my points and now it looks like a trend. So I will be taking my leave from this discussion.
Spying is about as much a part of the game as forums, databases and spreadsheets are part of the game.
As you can see, you bought forums and other things into the debate, not me. I was talking about spying only.
So I did. My mistake.
What exactly is this higher level if its different than what I said?
I went on to talk about that, specifically to forums, and you then quoted it. Not sure why you are asking me to talk about something I just talked about and you just quoted.
Most of what you said is on point but since when does spreadsheet and database make other guilds look bad? There are hardcore guilds and casual/social guilds. Hardcore guilds make them, casual guilds don't make them. These are unique to the guilds who make them. Lets say hardcore guild A and B have a rivalry. Its not like they will make the information they have collected public. So how does this embarrass either A or B? Making other guilds look bad can only be done via in-game skills, progress and achievements. Spreadsheets/Databases dont have any influence there.
Lets be super clear here.
I originally talked about these three out of game things (which again, you are correct, I bought up not you), to point out that there are many things that are considered a part of playing the game (especially at a higher level) that are not actually game systems.
My point was that - like spying - these things are used to play the game at a higher level - to be better at the game.
When you wanted further clarity on how they are analogous to spying, I chose to focus on one of them that is the most similar, since there is literally no point in us taking this tangent along to discuss all three in depth when discussing just one proves the point that there are analogies.
Anyway, I dont feel you have addressed most of my points and now it looks like a trend. So I will be taking my leave from this discussion.
You feel I haven't addressed your points because you keep trying to make points that pull further and further away from the original point that was being made.
yes, I refuse to talk about how a spreadsheet or database is specifically analogous to spying in a game in a thread about notice boards in nodes when I can talk about just forums to get the point across.
If you feel that is not addressing your point, I suggest you go back to working out what your original point even was - because it was not the analogy between spreadsheets and spying.
Can't you also by this logic argue that you shouldn't be allowed to see someone's guild or character name? Shouldn't they have to ask me what my name is just like in real life? Shouldn't I be able to lie to them? If they can easily see my name, can't they put me on a KOS list and grief me?
I think that in order to encourage PvP, as well as convenience, you can view a person's name and guild. So, there should be arguments for and against inspecting someone for their religion, social organization, and property ownership type. Having my property ownership type would seem to have to do with what kind of freehold I have, so someone knows whether to do business with me as a processor, or if they're wasting their time. So that seems helpful. And I'm not seeing the downside, I doubt people are going to go around killing farmers for the fun of it, so I'm not seeing the incentives for griefing caused by this system.
For religion, a person's religion in the game matters a lot. It can determine what skill augments are at their disposal and has in-game immersion purposes. Whether I'm dealing with a worshipper of Shol or not probably matters to the people of Verra. I do agree though, it would be bad for someone to just easily see that another player worships the Others, and we have a situation where all Others' worshippers get KOS by the server. I suggest instead, we have a "Detect Faith" spell that people can get through their religion, and people can have defenses against this spell as well. That way, you still get the PvP aspect of having rival worship of Gods in Verra, but you can protect yourself from zealots.
What social organization I belong to, sounds like it should be private information. Maybe I'm a member of the thieves' guild, and people see me snooping around a rival node's treasury / mayoral building. Don't really see the gameplay benefit given by allowing people to automatically see your social organization.
What node I'm a part of however DOES have a huge implication for the in game PvP system. Whether or not I'm attacking a gatherer of a rare resource should depend on what node they belong to. After all, we're going to go to war against each other in many circumstances. Why shouldn't we be competing for those resources? And since resources spawn around Verra randomly, everyone should be getting a chance for rare resources, if you want to get extra from an enemy node, you better be prepared.
All in all, the dev's should allow for inspection of this kind, based off what they find relevant for promoting the kind of PvP they want in the game. As well as the convenience it provides.
Comments
Perhaps they are going for a middle ground between blatantly showing what faction you are a part of as every other game does, and not making that information at all available.
Because that is exactly what this board is, a middle ground between what every other game ever has done, and providing no information at all.
I still really don't get the problem. Oh no, someone in the game can see what factions you are a part of. The horror!
And after all these posts I still fail to see why anyone needs the information. Oh no the horror.
No you don't, you understand perfectly why there are some situations in which this information would be useful.
"Never give your enemies power over you."
If you believe that this information gives someone power over you, then you agree there is a reason for it to exist.
You just don't like that reason.
Woooow, that just truly a ridiculous argument
"Please post all your personal information. Social security number, credit card info, home address. All of it. This gives someone power over you, and therefore you agree this info should exist publically, even if you don't like it." Same exact type of logic as yours in the post above. Are you trolling? It honestly looks like you are trolling.
Trying to make real life parallels to this is stupid.
Do better.
If the only answer you have to this debate is that it wouldn't be a good idea in real life - you've lost the debate.
Only athoritairians and enemies of your node have any reason to know anymore then base numbers regarding the citizens of a node.
I would expect to see in percentages:
How many of a certain race are citizens
How many of a certain relegion
How many are involved in certain social organizations
Showing who can do what and where they made a home is not necessary. Unless your attempting not control them or intend to siege the node making it easier to select your targets.
Hell if your gonna have that may as well list their alts as well.
But it isn't in one place, it is unique to each node.
If an enemy of your node comes to the middle of your node to get that information, don't you think that is on you?
It's not like there is one place where all of this information is listed for everyone - it is all node specific, and held in that same node.
You believe the walls will be locked checking everyone's papers as they pass to make sure only node citizens can get in?
The OP is about having a board that lists this stuff.
That implies one place, a common place, among all the individual nodes in all the individual nodes, that someone can find this information all in one place. Sounds like it would either be in or near the town hall.
No I just proved your "logic" wrong is all. It's ok, I know you can't admit to being wrong. I expect it.
Ok humor me on this one. Walk me through the steps where the node citizens can prevent anyone from acquiring this information. Since you say it's on them, there must be a reasonable way to stop it.
If there isn't an active nodewar going on between two rival nodes, the players from the rival node can just walk up and record all the info, without anyone the wiser.
If there is a nodewar going on, everyone is flagged to each other anyway, and you don't need the info in the first place. But let's say you do, you simply ask a guildie or a friend not in the war to record the info without anyone being the wiser.
Chances are there will be websites with lists of everyone, based on those boards, if the info is posted.
So please, elaborate on how it is on anyone in that node to stop the information being out there.
It sounds to me as if you are saying there will be a node board in each node, that lists all players from all nodes. I don't think this is what you are saying, but that is how it reads to me, so rather than replying to that, I'd rather just get clarification.
It's kind of like someone looking through a used car lot and saying they could afford a car, so you take them to a Roles Royce dealership and point out that they can't.
A statement or piece of logic that is true in one set of circumstances does not need to remain true if you alter those circumstances.
The statement that this information being available is fine in the context of a game does not mean that you can then transition that to out of game and expect the same statement to be true.
You and I both know that you know this. Stop pretending otherwise.
Two points here.
The first is that if you are openly hostile to another node, and you left someone from that node just walk in to the center of your node to spend a good amount of time just looking at this board, then yeah, that is on you and your fellow node citizens.
Second, if you are hostile to another node, node war or not, they are not going to really care about the information on this board - unless it is the only way to identify citizens of the node in question, in which case that is just adding to the reasons for it to exist.
What they won't care about - if they are hostile to your node - is what religion or society you belong to.
No the node board would only list those in that node.
The first is that if you are openly hostile to another node, and you left someone from that node just walk in to the center of your node to spend a good amount of time just looking at this board, then yeah, that is on you and your fellow node citizens.
So aside from someone openly walking into your node and declaring "I am from and enemy guild and we plan to burn this place to the ground!" How would anyone know?
James Bond and Archer are not good spy's regardless what you see on TV.
How could you tell the difference from a new player looking around and a spy looking to burn your stuff?
Do they care or do they not care?
You never answered my question above btw.
However, the original scenario was not about whether they had use for it, it was just that they were trying to get it.
And I did answer your question.
Since the information in regards to the citizens of your node is only on the board in that same node, if you are hostile to any other node and for what ever reason they wanted that information, you stop them getting it by stopping them going in to the very center of your node - which is a thing you would probably want to be doing anyway.
I mean, this scenario is not really relevant at all, but even if it were, all you need to do to stop people getting that information is doing what you would do anyway and prevent the enemy getting in to the middle of your node.
I just want to get this straight here.
I'm working on the assumption that there will be an identifier of what node a citizen is from other than this board.
If we assume this is not true, then a few things change. This person trying to get in to the node all of a sudden is viable and valid.
So, we are now in a situation where we have a character from an enemy node trying to get to our node board to get information. How do we oppose that, when we don't even have any means of telling that this character is from that opposing node.
Well, simple, what we do is we go to that opposing node and we look at their board, and we get a list of all the citizens from it - which we have to assume is the reason this person is at our node board.
I still don't believe this is a valid point, as I think there will be other ways to tell what node someone belongs to. However, if this is not the case, it just adds to the use and value of this board.
Forums, databases and spreadsheets are part of any and every game. Does spying fall into the same category?
Moreover these are things done outside of the game, not in the game. I dunno how these things are equivalent to spying in your mind.
What are we - People with actual life or NPC guards who will verify each and every person who enters the node 24x7? Because you cant reasonably suggest a way to stop this 24x7.
So in essence every node is suppose to have all the information about all the players in the server? So we as players enter the game and just travel around collecting node information cuz that is what AoC is about now as per what you said cuz this 'list' would keep changing pretty frequently. At the same time, some of our counterparts are guarding the entrance to the node, verify people entering our node, wait for replacements, go to sleep and back to work the next day. Right?
In the context of this discussion, I fail to see how you do not see these things as equivalent.
Sure they are, its not like I am denying that, by they I am referring to forums, spreadsheet and databases. But now lets come to their purpose. Their purpose is to help analyze the game so that better decisions can be made about how to progress in the game faster. Now what is the purpose of spying? Personal gain and sabotage. Now please explain to me how these are the "same thing".
Now, since when is spying a part of WoW or some of the other MMOs out there for it to be considered an "inherent" part of MMOs.
No. The point of these things is to play the game at a higher level.
Forums are a perfect example of this. They are used to learn information about the game, sure. But they are also used to discuss social aspects specific to each server, to learn about player activities, to recruit guild members and to make other guilds look bad.
These are VERY similar things to what you would spy on other guilds for. Keep in mind here, you bought forums in to this discussion, not me. I am simply pointing out that they are not all that different.
What exactly is this higher level if its different than what I said?
Most of what you said is on point but since when does spreadsheet and database make other guilds look bad? There are hardcore guilds and casual/social guilds. Hardcore guilds make them, casual guilds don't make them. These are unique to the guilds who make them. Lets say hardcore guild A and B have a rivalry. Its not like they will make the information they have collected public. So how does this embarrass either A or B? Making other guilds look bad can only be done via in-game skills, progress and achievements. Spreadsheets/Databases dont have any influence there.
Anyway, I dont feel you have addressed most of my points and now it looks like a trend. So I will be taking my leave from this discussion.
I originally talked about these three out of game things (which again, you are correct, I bought up not you), to point out that there are many things that are considered a part of playing the game (especially at a higher level) that are not actually game systems.
My point was that - like spying - these things are used to play the game at a higher level - to be better at the game.
When you wanted further clarity on how they are analogous to spying, I chose to focus on one of them that is the most similar, since there is literally no point in us taking this tangent along to discuss all three in depth when discussing just one proves the point that there are analogies. You feel I haven't addressed your points because you keep trying to make points that pull further and further away from the original point that was being made.
yes, I refuse to talk about how a spreadsheet or database is specifically analogous to spying in a game in a thread about notice boards in nodes when I can talk about just forums to get the point across.
If you feel that is not addressing your point, I suggest you go back to working out what your original point even was - because it was not the analogy between spreadsheets and spying.
I think that in order to encourage PvP, as well as convenience, you can view a person's name and guild. So, there should be arguments for and against inspecting someone for their religion, social organization, and property ownership type. Having my property ownership type would seem to have to do with what kind of freehold I have, so someone knows whether to do business with me as a processor, or if they're wasting their time. So that seems helpful. And I'm not seeing the downside, I doubt people are going to go around killing farmers for the fun of it, so I'm not seeing the incentives for griefing caused by this system.
For religion, a person's religion in the game matters a lot. It can determine what skill augments are at their disposal and has in-game immersion purposes. Whether I'm dealing with a worshipper of Shol or not probably matters to the people of Verra. I do agree though, it would be bad for someone to just easily see that another player worships the Others, and we have a situation where all Others' worshippers get KOS by the server. I suggest instead, we have a "Detect Faith" spell that people can get through their religion, and people can have defenses against this spell as well. That way, you still get the PvP aspect of having rival worship of Gods in Verra, but you can protect yourself from zealots.
What social organization I belong to, sounds like it should be private information. Maybe I'm a member of the thieves' guild, and people see me snooping around a rival node's treasury / mayoral building. Don't really see the gameplay benefit given by allowing people to automatically see your social organization.
What node I'm a part of however DOES have a huge implication for the in game PvP system. Whether or not I'm attacking a gatherer of a rare resource should depend on what node they belong to. After all, we're going to go to war against each other in many circumstances. Why shouldn't we be competing for those resources? And since resources spawn around Verra randomly, everyone should be getting a chance for rare resources, if you want to get extra from an enemy node, you better be prepared.
All in all, the dev's should allow for inspection of this kind, based off what they find relevant for promoting the kind of PvP they want in the game. As well as the convenience it provides.