I'm really confused by the "no one wants to have discussion with me" but what they really mean is "no one is agreeing with me".
Any real discussion you have is going to have opposing viewpoints. If it doesn't, you're in an echochamber.
Yea. Being called “dumb as fuck,” being told “end of discussion,” being called “a baby throwing a tantrum,” and repeatedly, “no one cares about your opinion,” etc, etc, is not having a discussion it’s just being childish and something I’ve not done to anyone with counter points. All I’ve been trying to do is share the perspective of players affected by the current monetization model, even if it’s a minority. All I’ve received is “it’s not going to change might as well shut up.”
On internet game forums, those are just terms of endearment for people who have opposing views.
Easy enough to skip past the colorful phrasing and just translate the message as..."I disagree".
At the end of the day...the forums are here for you to share your opinions. If your opinion truly weren't worth a discussion, it would be moved to the 2nd page of topics already.
The basis of paying more for a sub is because you enjoy the game overall. Then they could add more art to the game as a whole and not a mount skin here and there.
The devs that make the art that I personally DISLIKE in the game would be equally funded and no one could tell the difference. It's much better to be able to support what you like.
That’s a fair point! However, an alternative could be community voting on art content releases!
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mcstackersonMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
If you played classic wow, did you ever get this feeling again?
I do and absolutely! I’ve played the rerelease into tbc on an rp server. I was also upset when they added boosts for tbc, not because play to win really affects the way I enjoy to play, but because cash shops are almost always negative.
Guess this is just be a difference in perception then. I don't think I have thought that way since maybe Wrath. There are hard to get items that i can appreciate but in general, good looking gear just means you have played a lot.
The community is definitely open for discussion, it's one of the reason's stuff like the combat and the dwarf models are/have been changed significantly, because the community came together and said "this sucks". But when you say dumb shit like this
Steven has said a billion times there is no pay to win.
Sure, but maybe they should replace pay for cosmetics for pay to win is what I am saying. It would make them a lot more money if having multiple revenue streams is important and it doesn't ostracize players that enjoy cosmetics and social gameplay. They are unfairly putting the burden of monetization on the socializer type players who will:
1. Be the first to build a community in the game.
2. Are more likely to pay for cosmetics due to social pressure.
3. Are the reason to create an mmorpg and not just an rpg.
then your opinion is chucked out the window. You will never be taken seriously when you try and argue that Intrepid should add P2W to the shop instead of cosmetics. Honestly probably the worst take I've seen. Dumb as fuck.
It was a hypothetical stance to show that when it comes to affecting *your* type of gameplay it’s not okay now. Which you’ve proven here with your comment. I am against cash shops in all forms, it was to try to produce some sympathy and perspective for the players affected by cosmetic shops. Which seems impossible at this point. If you’ve read anything I’ve said you’d see I advocate for higher sub and box price with a free trial and don’t like cash shops. Have a great day.
Well then, let's discuss.
I am not convinced of the fact that the way Achievement players are affected by cash shops is a thing that Ashes is going to cause.
In my mind, in order for that to happen, you would need to be able to buy an Achievement. Let's assume that we consider 'The Golden Sandal Of The Bestower' to be a Cash Shop item you can buy, and 'The Silver Sandal of the Bestower' to be an ingame item you achieve by defeating the Sandal Lord, Arbiter of Cake and Pie.
At what point has the cash shop user bought an achievement?
Is it because a person could look at the Golden Sandal and think it was the Silver one?
Is it that they have achieved 'The Golden Sandal' and it is exclusive to those who spent money on a specific day and that is in some way an achievement?
Is it because the Golden Sandal somehow looks incredibly cooler on their foot than the silver one?
In what way is the Achiever (not the Completionist) harmed by this?'
Then why are you on the forums of a game that is absolutely going to have a cash shop?
If this is something you are against in all forms, then you should look for games that don't have a cash shop - just as someone that is against PvP in all forms should look for a game that has no PvP.
If there is no cosmetic store after release, what are the Embers for?
"Embers can be saved and used in the Ashes of Creation MMORPG to purchase cosmetics after launch."
The idea that the cosmetic store is closing is easily-debunked misinformation. I know Dygz isn't just making stuff up, I'm sure he just misremembered something.
If there is no cosmetic store after release, what are the Embers for?
"Embers can be saved and used in the Ashes of Creation MMORPG to purchase cosmetics after launch."
The idea that the cosmetic store is closing is easily-debunked misinformation. I know Dygz isn't just making stuff up, I'm sure he just misremembered something.
Here's an idea... they could just *delete* them and nothing would change once it's released! The game isn't released yet.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
@Iridianny The cosmetic shop exists to support the development process. Period.
I see people trying to shut it down the same way I see people that are trying to slow down the development of the game. I start to suspect you work for Amazon or something.
That is a possible explanation for the hate you are getting.
Is a cash shop during the development period as a form of reward for investment fine? Yes. I am talking about it for the future of the game after it's released. Also, the game was fully funded.
Cosmetic shop is set to close once the game is released.
If you're against cash shops of all forms, feel free to play a different game.
Same as if you're against PvP of all forms.
Not sure where you got this information, but its a little hard for Intrepid to have an anticipated $23 ARPPU if they dont' have a cash shop.
Also considering Steven has said the cash shop will exist post launch.
I know! Why not make a third identical thread, and see if we still disagree with you!!!
If we're at a tavern in Ashes, I guess we'll be betting on "what's the next repetitive 'change ashes for me' thread?" now.
a. yet another remove cash shop thread
b. yet another safe pve thread
c. yet another total free pvp (no corruption) thread
d. yet another cheaper fee / f2p plz thread
and while we're at it
e. yet another proximity voice chat thread
and of coz how can we forget
f. yet another rename-the-tank-archetype thread \o/ I mean, this is of uttermost importance!! Calling the tank "tank" or not is a very delicate and controversial issue!! We must debate this thoroughly and a hundred times over!!
... what else? I think I've seen dual-shields threads a couple times too ...
f. yet another rename-the-tank-archetype thread \o/ I mean, this is of uttermost importance!! Calling the tank "tank" or not is a very delicate and controversial issue!! We must debate this thoroughly and a hundred times over!!
(nooooooooo..... shhhhhhhhh..... we'd just got rid of that one...)
I know! Why not make a third identical thread, and see if we still disagree with you!!!
If we're at a tavern in Ashes, I guess we'll be betting on "what's the next repetitive 'change ashes for me' thread?" now.
a. yet another remove cash shop thread
b. yet another safe pve thread
c. yet another total free pvp (no corruption) thread
d. yet another cheaper fee / f2p plz thread
and while we're at it
e. yet another proximity voice chat thread
and of coz how can we forget
f. yet another rename-the-tank-archetype thread \o/ I mean, this is of uttermost importance!! Calling the tank "tank" or not is a very delicate and controversial issue!! We must debate this thoroughly and a hundred times over!!
... what else? I think I've seen dual-shields threads a couple times too ...
Believe me there was PRIME opportunity to revive that thread just last week.
The thought was delicious.
But I didn't want the responsibility.
I know! Why not make a third identical thread, and see if we still disagree with you!!!
If we're at a tavern in Ashes, I guess we'll be betting on "what's the next repetitive 'change ashes for me' thread?" now.
a. yet another remove cash shop thread
b. yet another safe pve thread
c. yet another total free pvp (no corruption) thread
d. yet another cheaper fee / f2p plz thread
and while we're at it
e. yet another proximity voice chat thread
and of coz how can we forget
f. yet another rename-the-tank-archetype thread \o/ I mean, this is of uttermost importance!! Calling the tank "tank" or not is a very delicate and controversial issue!! We must debate this thoroughly and a hundred times over!!
... what else? I think I've seen dual-shields threads a couple times too ...
Believe me there was PRIME opportunity to revive that thread just last week.
The thought was delicious.
But I didn't want the responsibility.
I'm tempted on a near regular basis to do so with all the random dumb puns I come up with relative to it. But I don't for the same reason. Maybe when alpha 2 is drawing near I'll revive it for the sake of all the new people getting initiated.
I know! Why not make a third identical thread, and see if we still disagree with you!!!
If we're at a tavern in Ashes, I guess we'll be betting on "what's the next repetitive 'change ashes for me' thread?" now.
a. yet another remove cash shop thread
b. yet another safe pve thread
c. yet another total free pvp (no corruption) thread
d. yet another cheaper fee / f2p plz thread
and while we're at it
e. yet another proximity voice chat thread
and of coz how can we forget
f. yet another rename-the-tank-archetype thread \o/ I mean, this is of uttermost importance!! Calling the tank "tank" or not is a very delicate and controversial issue!! We must debate this thoroughly and a hundred times over!!
... what else? I think I've seen dual-shields threads a couple times too ...
The fact that those ideas keep coming up is PROOF that we need to implement all of them. Let’s make another thread asking for them all. Intrepid Studios are fools for not standing up to Steven and demanding each one. I believe there are 3 people in the world who want all of them and if they aren’t all in the game then they are being excluded.
I know! Why not make a third identical thread, and see if we still disagree with you!!!
If we're at a tavern in Ashes, I guess we'll be betting on "what's the next repetitive 'change ashes for me' thread?" now.
a. yet another remove cash shop thread
b. yet another safe pve thread
c. yet another total free pvp (no corruption) thread
d. yet another cheaper fee / f2p plz thread
and while we're at it
e. yet another proximity voice chat thread
and of coz how can we forget
f. yet another rename-the-tank-archetype thread \o/ I mean, this is of uttermost importance!! Calling the tank "tank" or not is a very delicate and controversial issue!! We must debate this thoroughly and a hundred times over!!
... what else? I think I've seen dual-shields threads a couple times too ...
Ah yes. the : tAnK iS A sTuPid nAmE, pLeAse cHanGe
Prince among classic thread topics
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AtamaMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I know! Why not make a third identical thread, and see if we still disagree with you!!!
If we're at a tavern in Ashes, I guess we'll be betting on "what's the next repetitive 'change ashes for me' thread?" now.
a. yet another remove cash shop thread
b. yet another safe pve thread
c. yet another total free pvp (no corruption) thread
d. yet another cheaper fee / f2p plz thread
and while we're at it
e. yet another proximity voice chat thread
and of coz how can we forget
f. yet another rename-the-tank-archetype thread \o/ I mean, this is of uttermost importance!! Calling the tank "tank" or not is a very delicate and controversial issue!! We must debate this thoroughly and a hundred times over!!
... what else? I think I've seen dual-shields threads a couple times too ...
Ah yes. the : tAnK iS A sTuPid nAmE, pLeAse cHanGe
Prince among classic thread topics
Well, it is a stupid name, but clearly it ain't changing.
let’s focus on other ideas about cash shops more in general using ashes as the example mmo.
Do you really think it's a feasible form of revenue after the game is launched?
Consider how many of you said that "cosmetics don't matter." Once you are paying your $15 a month and the developers aren't making you feel special for being part of the alpha and beta funding with titles...
what is there to buy at that point for those who don't care about cosmetics?
If no one finds cosmetics necessary because "they add no advantage to gameplay," are you just reliant on "whales" to continue to invest in the game so you don't have to pay a slightly higher sub? For how long could that be sustained?
If the cash shop fails and the "revenue is not high enough", would you "lose your trust in Steven" for raising the sub price? Why would it be different now to change it versus after the game is launched? Wouldn't it be worse?
If the cash shop fails with just carrying cosmetics and the "revenue is not high enough" what is your list of things they cannot add that are pay to win? Where does that list begin and end?
Is a cosmetic that provides abilities that in game gear doesn't have available pay to win? What kind of abilities are acceptable and which aren't? Which skills are more important in this determination and why?
What if adding abilities is the only way to make the "insignificant cosmetics" significant enough to sustain that revenue stream? Is that okay?
If everything is going to be equal between cash shop and in-game to prevent it from having any advantage and being pay to win, does special and better appearances in cash shop then definitely not become the "winning" you were afraid of? How do you suggest it is kept equal so there "is no advantage"?
If Steven sells with a cash shop implemented and part of the game culture, do you see it more likely to be added to with pay to win features than if there is no cash shop in the culture as set by Steven and the foundational members?
If you are sure they wont expand cash shop into pay to win territory, then why do you think they chose it as a consistent form of revenue given what is asked above?
Now, I know these all are questioning the "trust of Steven," but that's okay... asking questions and having differing opinions is okay... you don't know him personally and you can even question the people you know personally from time to time and don't have to blindly trust anything.
I’d love to actually hear some *conversation* about these points if anyone is able instead of just hurling insults.
I don't feel that this really justified a new post when you could well have posted this on your other thread, but okay i'll bite.
There's too much subjection in the world to try and cater to everyone. The problem is that if we are to balance the scales the way you want to, it just won't work.
Lets add another type to your archetypes: The Whale. Okay so you've removed the cash shop, so now the Fashionista is happy. But you have now taken away the one thing that makes the Whale Happy - being able to spend their money for satisfaction. Or perhaps instead of the Whale, it might be The Workaholic. Or The Casual. They don't have the time to earn these rewards and it would just give them the satisfaction of looking at least as cool as their counterparts if they could purchase that cool set, so that they may better use their sparse time on other elements.
Can you truly say that there are no people out there that actually want a cash shop that you think won't feel they are missing out?
I love this! I am somewhere in between a Workaholic and a Whale. I do not mind spending a ton of money on a game i'm truly investing into and enjoy playing. I'm a casual at times, but when i do have time, i'm hard core. I do feel bad about people who cannot afford anything and everything and i feel for them. But it should be affordable, a good balance. GW2 cash shop is fair to me, while ESO cash shop is straight up greed.
I love this! I am somewhere in between a Workaholic and a Whale. I do not mind spending a ton of money on a game i'm truly investing into and enjoy playing. I'm a casual at times, but when i do have time, i'm hard core. I do feel bad about people who cannot afford anything and everything and i feel for them. But it should be affordable, a good balance. GW2 cash shop is fair to me, while ESO cash shop is straight up greed.
Speaking of whales.
It reminds me of a P2W mmo ... tactics?-ish mobile game I've played a couple years back.
As the game progressed the casual crowd realized that one of the best option-for-survival they could take was to social-engineer the whales --- befriend (or suck up to ...) relatively friendly whales and get them on our side, make peace with & pacify whales that won't join but are still willing to negotiate, then try manipulating said whales and have them collide explosively with hostile barbarian whales who just want to steamroll all the casual peasants ...
It essentially became an entirely different game, was fun in that very narrow aspect though ...
Anyway. Why don't we call tanks "Steam Tanks" instead? Sounds more fantasy-ish, and more dwarven. Steamroller's also cool.
Comments
Easy enough to skip past the colorful phrasing and just translate the message as..."I disagree".
At the end of the day...the forums are here for you to share your opinions. If your opinion truly weren't worth a discussion, it would be moved to the 2nd page of topics already.
That’s a fair point! However, an alternative could be community voting on art content releases!
Guess this is just be a difference in perception then. I don't think I have thought that way since maybe Wrath. There are hard to get items that i can appreciate but in general, good looking gear just means you have played a lot.
Well then, let's discuss.
I am not convinced of the fact that the way Achievement players are affected by cash shops is a thing that Ashes is going to cause.
In my mind, in order for that to happen, you would need to be able to buy an Achievement. Let's assume that we consider 'The Golden Sandal Of The Bestower' to be a Cash Shop item you can buy, and 'The Silver Sandal of the Bestower' to be an ingame item you achieve by defeating the Sandal Lord, Arbiter of Cake and Pie.
At what point has the cash shop user bought an achievement?
Is it because a person could look at the Golden Sandal and think it was the Silver one?
Is it that they have achieved 'The Golden Sandal' and it is exclusive to those who spent money on a specific day and that is in some way an achievement?
Is it because the Golden Sandal somehow looks incredibly cooler on their foot than the silver one?
In what way is the Achiever (not the Completionist) harmed by this?'
If this is something you are against in all forms, then you should look for games that don't have a cash shop - just as someone that is against PvP in all forms should look for a game that has no PvP.
This game is not the game for either of you.
Yea, I'd like a quote on this, because I can't find anything to confirm this.
Don't forget that "Embers" are a virtual currency that you can use you purchase cosmetics from the store after release.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Embers
If there is no cosmetic store after release, what are the Embers for?
"Embers can be saved and used in the Ashes of Creation MMORPG to purchase cosmetics after launch."
The idea that the cosmetic store is closing is easily-debunked misinformation. I know Dygz isn't just making stuff up, I'm sure he just misremembered something.
Here's an idea... they could just *delete* them and nothing would change once it's released! The game isn't released yet.
Remind me.
Your confusion is likely that the method for how the shop will operate will change when the game goes live. The shop itself will not change.
As pointed out above, you need only consider the fact that embers exist to know and understand that the shop will be a feature once the game is live.
Not sure where you got this information, but its a little hard for Intrepid to have an anticipated $23 ARPPU if they dont' have a cash shop.
Also considering Steven has said the cash shop will exist post launch.
If we're at a tavern in Ashes, I guess we'll be betting on "what's the next repetitive 'change ashes for me' thread?" now.
a. yet another remove cash shop thread
b. yet another safe pve thread
c. yet another total free pvp (no corruption) thread
d. yet another cheaper fee / f2p plz thread
and while we're at it
e. yet another proximity voice chat thread
and of coz how can we forget
f. yet another rename-the-tank-archetype thread \o/ I mean, this is of uttermost importance!! Calling the tank "tank" or not is a very delicate and controversial issue!! We must debate this thoroughly and a hundred times over!!
... what else? I think I've seen dual-shields threads a couple times too ...
(nooooooooo..... shhhhhhhhh..... we'd just got rid of that one...)
Nothing to see here, people. Move along.
Believe me there was PRIME opportunity to revive that thread just last week.
The thought was delicious.
But I didn't want the responsibility.
I'm tempted on a near regular basis to do so with all the random dumb puns I come up with relative to it. But I don't for the same reason. Maybe when alpha 2 is drawing near I'll revive it for the sake of all the new people getting initiated.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
The fact that those ideas keep coming up is PROOF that we need to implement all of them. Let’s make another thread asking for them all. Intrepid Studios are fools for not standing up to Steven and demanding each one. I believe there are 3 people in the world who want all of them and if they aren’t all in the game then they are being excluded.
Ah yes. the : tAnK iS A sTuPid nAmE, pLeAse cHanGe
Prince among classic thread topics
Well, it is a stupid name, but clearly it ain't changing.
.. Oh my.. what have I done ?
No, no, clearly it should be called Anti-Damage.
I’d love to actually hear some *conversation* about these points if anyone is able instead of just hurling insults.
I just had the same thought.
I sincerely apologize for mistakenly casting a necromancy spell on an undead thread's temporary tomb.
I mean ... I was just trying to join the necromancer's cult ....... *sobs*
Nah, we're talking about class names in this thread now. The other thread is about the cash shop still.
I like the idea of anti-damage for clerics. I would support that all the way. I mean, it's just common sense.
I love this! I am somewhere in between a Workaholic and a Whale. I do not mind spending a ton of money on a game i'm truly investing into and enjoy playing. I'm a casual at times, but when i do have time, i'm hard core. I do feel bad about people who cannot afford anything and everything and i feel for them. But it should be affordable, a good balance. GW2 cash shop is fair to me, while ESO cash shop is straight up greed.
Speaking of whales.
It reminds me of a P2W mmo ... tactics?-ish mobile game I've played a couple years back.
As the game progressed the casual crowd realized that one of the best option-for-survival they could take was to social-engineer the whales --- befriend (or suck up to ...) relatively friendly whales and get them on our side, make peace with & pacify whales that won't join but are still willing to negotiate, then try manipulating said whales and have them collide explosively with hostile barbarian whales who just want to steamroll all the casual peasants ...
It essentially became an entirely different game, was fun in that very narrow aspect though ...
Anyway. Why don't we call tanks "Steam Tanks" instead? Sounds more fantasy-ish, and more dwarven. Steamroller's also cool.