Now, I have to pay extra to enjoy the collection part of any mmo that is enjoyed by a lot of players, because a multi million dollar fully funded game company “deserves extra cash.”
If gear was not going to be available in game, then I might agree with you. But there will be gear available in game that you can collect. There will be crafted gear and gear available from drops and rewards. I've seen some nice looking gear that Steven has pointed out will be available in game. I would be upset if the only decent looking gear came from the cash shop.
Are you this upset about gear that might be behind a skill barrier? Some of us, because I know I am not the only player that really isn't all that great when it comes to actual skill in playing the game, will never touch that gear. Even though we pay our subscription for access to the game and all its parts, we won't get to enjoy that. Isn't that the same logic? I am a collector and it bugs me a little that I know from the beginning that there is some stuff that I just won't get. But such is life.
Now this multi million dollar fully funded game company, as you call it, is fully funded for development thanks to investors and Steven's deep pockets. But I seriously doubt Steven wants this game to become his own personal money pit. I'm sure he would like to earn some profit, and I do not begrudge him that at all. But this game and company will need continued funding to keep servers going and for continued development. They believe they can do that from subs and a cash shop. I'm fine with that model. The lower sub price appeals to a broad socio economic base. The cash shop will spread out "the burden" to players with a little extra money for cosmetics.
I'm sorry that you don't like or think that it's fair. But that is the model that they have chosen to run with.
I think Steven finds it hilarious to read how all of you defend why he needs more of your money for a game that isn’t even out yet and has no release date. You should keep it going on this thread to show your devotion to him and maybe he will even acknowledge you one day.
Just got my Ashes pre-order pack earlier in February. Fully front-loaded with cosmetics.
I am now primed and ready to enjoy Ashes in all it's glory ... without being saddled with that pesky extra box cost.
I believe the extra art, costumes, appearances, or whatever you want to call it should come with my sub. Period. @Iridianny
See thats where the community disgarees with you fully. Most people want the base game and nothing else. Some people want the base game and all its DLC others want as much as possible. Most people aren't willing to pay for something they don't want. Why force the community to pay $5 extra a month for monthly cosmetics that they may or may not want when you can just ask an individual to pay $20 for that cosmetic. You decrease the cost for the average player, increasing your player base while keeping the same level of funding you had either way. You don't force someone to buy everything when they only want something. Your logic is awful
As someone who enjoys the fashion and cosmetic aspects, I promise you it is not “gameplay” and there is no “winning” it no matter how much you pay.
What makes you think you determine what is and isn’t gameplay for every gamer? Actually, yes, people can find enjoyment out of cosmetic aspects of games, hence why people spend WOW end game farming for transmog and mounts.
And thank you for supporting my point that paying for that part of the game removes that potential “win” and enjoyment of collection as an in game feature.
Are you being ignorant intentionally? There’s is no gameplay to picking outfits. There’s often gameplay involved in collecting the styles and dyes, but none in using them. It doesn’t matter if you spend thirty seconds on your outfit or thirty hours, it still isn’t gameplay. There is zero impact on the game world or other players when you change your style from a basic style to some uber-whale cash cosmetic. Thus anything bought in the cash shop requires no gameplay to obtain and the act of equipping them is also not gameplay, so obviously it’s not a gameplay related issue.
You’re so stuck up your own ego you can’t understand that everyone else is seeing your posts as temper tantrums, and they’re not wrong.
There’s is no gameplay to picking outfits. There’s often gameplay involved in collecting the styles and dyes, but none in using them. It doesn’t matter if you spend thirty seconds on your outfit or thirty hours, it still isn’t gameplay…so obviously it’s not a gameplay related issue.
If you read anything you’d easily see how I am talking about the gameplay of collecting the appearances. I am not sure what you’re getting at here. I’m also not sure what qualifies a “tantrum,” but I guess you think it’s an opposing opinion.
If gear was not going to be available in game, then I might agree with you. But there will be gear available in game that you can collect. There will be crafted gear and gear available from drops and rewards. I've seen some nice looking gear that Steven has pointed out will be available in game. I would be upset if the only decent looking gear came from the cash shop.
Is a cosmetic that provides abilities that in game gear doesn't have available pay to win? What kind of abilities are acceptable and which aren't? Which skills are more important in this determination and why?
For example, what if it's an ability that is simply a "cosmetic" glow effect, but you cannot glow without it. It might have a tiny impact on gameplay as you can glow in say a dark cave, but this was not perfectly thought out. Now is it pay to win?
If everything is going to be perfectly equal between cash shop and in-game to prevent it from having any advantage and being pay to win, does special and better appearances in cash shop then definitely not become the "winning" at that point after everything has been collected? How do you suggest it is kept perfectly equal so there "is no advantage"?
@Iridianny You are taking everyone's arguments and arguing small details, cosmetics that have no impact on damage or any other stats are known to have small impacts on gameplay. We accept that. Look at League of Legends, there are multiple skins on many different champions that make certain abilities harder to see, technically the cosmetic is therefore a P2W mechanic, however most gamers agree that in casual gameplay artistic differences that dont impact stats in any way are acceptable.
There’s is no gameplay to picking outfits. There’s often gameplay involved in collecting the styles and dyes, but none in using them. It doesn’t matter if you spend thirty seconds on your outfit or thirty hours, it still isn’t gameplay…so obviously it’s not a gameplay related issue.
If you read anything you’d easily see how I am talking about the gameplay of collecting the appearances. I am not sure what you’re getting at here. I’m also not sure what qualifies a “tantrum,” but I guess you think it’s an opposing opinion.
I think Steven finds it hilarious to read how all of you defend why he needs more of your money for a game that isn’t even out yet and has no release date. You should keep it going on this thread to show your devotion to him and maybe he will even acknowledge you one day.
whales will never learn.
See Scam Citizen.
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AtamaMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited February 2022
People, Iridianny is a troll who clearly has no interest in this game, and just wants to rile people up by claiming that the cash shop is a crime, and that anyone who likes this game is a cultist who worships Steven. Do what I did and put her on ignore.
It appears to me that Iridianny is someone who is passionate about their pleasure in outfits and costumes being a large part of what they perceive as fun in the game. It looks like she does have interest in AoC, though that interest may be in different things than many other people.
I wouldn't characterize Iridianny as a troll, but just someone different and passionate, which is cool by me.
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AtamaMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
It appears to me that Iridianny is someone who is passionate about their pleasure in outfits and costumes being a large part of what they perceive as fun in the game. It looks like she does have interest in AoC, though that interest may be in different things than many other people.
I wouldn't characterize Iridianny as a troll, but just someone different and passionate, which is cool by me.
If Iridianny had any interest in actual discussion I’d agree with you. She doesn’t. She just keeps repeating the same unreasoning diatribes, interspersed with insults to the community. The game is clearly not the game she’d like it to be, but instead of accepting that, she will attack anyone who disagrees with her and keep proselytizing.
You are mistaking zealotry and tantrums for passion.
It appears to me that Iridianny is someone who is passionate about their pleasure in outfits and costumes being a large part of what they perceive as fun in the game. It looks like she does have interest in AoC, though that interest may be in different things than many other people.
I wouldn't characterize Iridianny as a troll, but just someone different and passionate, which is cool by me.
If Iridianny had any interest in actual discussion I’d agree with you. She doesn’t. She just keeps repeating the same unreasoning diatribes, interspersed with insults to the community. The game is clearly not the game she’d like it to be, but instead of accepting that, she will attack anyone who disagrees with her and keep proselytizing.
You are mistaking zealotry and tantrums for passion.
If I had no interest in this game I wouldn’t even post on here. I actually am really passionate about mmos and this one seems very exciting for it’s diverse gameplay progression routes.
Sharing my opinion on a form of monetization (cash shop), that is widely scrutinized in all mmos, of a game that is in development and seeking feedback doesn’t make me a troll. You are a troll for continuing to post comments like “put her on ignore” instead of adding to the discussion with any sort of understanding of my perspective and people who play games like me. You ignore all my points and believe you are saying something worthwhile with “this game just isn’t for you!”
Either way, this thread went from ‘common sense’ to nonsense on page 1.
I wanted to take both the threads down, but here is a quote from a staff member to me: “I think the posts you made were insightful and interesting and, in my opinion, I would love it if they stayed so that the design team can take your feedback into account as they work on building Ashes of Creation.”
The following question has been put to you a number of times, and you refuse to answer it;
Ashes still has a gameplay path where you play the game, complete content and gain unique appearances as a result. These appearances are the ones that players that enjoy this gameplay path will go after, and are also the appearances that players that really care about how their characters look will go after.
Since this seems to be what you are after in an MMO, what difference does it make to you if there is also other content that is not what you are after (in this case, the cash shop).
That is about the same as someone like me, a raider, complaining that there is also solo content in the game. I want my content to be for raids, not solo players. However, if the are enough raids to keep me and my guild content, I personally don't at all care if there is also some other content in the game. I do not expect all content in the game to be directly catered to me and my guild, and it is up to us to work out if something is or is not for us.
Once again, as long as there is enough of the content we want, we don't much care what shape the rest of the content takes.
The cash shop is content for other people, you have the content in the game that you are after.
So, based on al of the above, what is your issue? You seem to be complaining about content that is designed for other people, rather than concerning yourself with content that is designed for you.
So, based on al of the above, what is your issue? You seem to be complaining about content that is designed for other people, rather than concerning yourself with content that is designed for you.
Why do you care so much about me and my personal issues?
I have listed objective concerns with cash shops in all mmos, how it affects players like me, and the potential direction of them within this mmo.
I’ve repeatedly tried to steer the conversation there, but you just want to change my personal distaste for them? You won’t.
I’ve repeatedly tried to steer the conversation there, but you just want to change my personal distaste for them? You won’t.
You don't get to steer the conversation - not if that means ignoring questions and then claiming others are ignoring your points.
You don't like cash shops, cool. That does not explain at all why you can't just ignore it. The game still has the kind of content you say you are after, so you have not actually given a valid reason for a complaint here - literally making this a tantrum.
I agree with the above poster that says you are not just trolling. However, you have not explained why you are so against content for other gamers, when the game has the type of content you want to participate in.
The way it is now, there is a cash shop in the game that you would not be expected to intract with, and content in the game by which you can earn appearance gear. I see nothing at all in that for you to complain about - you are literally complaining about content made for players that are not you.
You are welcome to not like that content, it isn't for you.
I don't like arenas. Ashes will have an arena. I am not complaining about that, as that is straight up content for other people, not for me. Why *WOULD* I complain about that, when I know it isnt for me and I can just ignore it?
The only reason you can't ignore it is if you are so petty that you can't bear to see other players in cosmetics that everyone knows have been bought. That is as petty as it gets.
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I feel it also worth pointing out that the general disdain for cash shops in games is really just disdain for pay to win. The terms cash shop and pay to win are conflated in many games, as in most games they are basically the same thing. Since that isn't the case in Ashes, the general disdain for cash shops in other games doesn't really apply here.
I think Steven finds it hilarious to read how all of you defend why he needs more of your money for a game that isn’t even out yet and has no release date. You should keep it going on this thread to show your devotion to him and maybe he will even acknowledge you one day.
So, that's what this is really about, is it? You don't like that they're selling stuff for a game that hasn't yet been released...
I think Steven finds it hilarious to read how all of you defend why he needs more of your money for a game that isn’t even out yet and has no release date. You should keep it going on this thread to show your devotion to him and maybe he will even acknowledge you one day.
So, that's what this is really about, is it? You don't like that they're selling stuff for a game that hasn't yet been released...
Right. At least now we can let this thread die!
No buddy, this thread is not about that if you could read it.
I don’t dislike it or like it, actually it’s a great money making model to charge for a promise. The average consumer doesn’t pay for one though.
So, it’s funny to see the way those that did also defend why this game, that isn’t released and doesn’t even have a release date, has to have more money and it has to be a cash shop. Also, the way you are all so invested in cash shops because Steven told you to be is what is amusing.
P.S. if you want a thread to die, you shouldn't comment on it.
So, it’s funny to see the way those that did also defend why this game, that isn’t released and doesn’t even have a release date, has to have more money and it has to be a cash shop. Also, the way you are all so invested in cash shops because Steven told you to be is what is amusing.
We "defend" it because we understand that Intrepid have researched different payment models, have expertise in this area that none of the posters here have, and we all value knowledge and expertise.
There are two more facts to add to the above, however. The first is that Intrepids payment model isn't just "we want to make all the money". If they were just trying to make as much money as they could, the monetization scheme they have is not the way to go. They have picked this particular scheme because they think - with their knowledge, expertise and research - that it is the best option.
Second, they have given us the reasoning behind it, which they did not need to do. While some individuals may disagree with their reasoning, they can only do so from a subjective perspective. If you look at things from Intrepids perspective, this monetization makes perfect sense.
One other reason I am defending it in this particular thread is because you are still unable to answer a basic question. If what you are after is an in game means of earning different appearances, given the fact that Ashes offers you exactly this, what is the issue?
Your repeated refusal to answer this question is quite telling, to be honest.
If what you are after is an in game means of earning different appearances, given the fact that Ashes offers you exactly this, what is the issue?
Because I have already answered this question in the cumulative of all my posts and I don't feel like repeating myself for you, again. You refuse to attempt to understand my opinion and perspective with all I have already shared and I don't care to keep explaining it or defending it for you. Also, you are a bit obsessive with it. Have a good day.
@Iridianny seems like we are voicing our opinions and you are refuting us by saying we are defending steven or the cash shop. We are saying we dont care about the cash shop and are asking why you care because we believe their is enough content for you to not need to worry about the cash shop and that your complaint is invalid.
@Iridianny seems like we are voicing our opinions and you are refuting us by saying we are defending steven or the cash shop. We are saying we dont care about the cash shop and are asking why you care because we believe their is enough content for you to not need to worry about the cash shop and that your complaint is invalid.
I’ve already explained why I don’t like cash shops many many times.
Why wouldn’t you like pay for gold? It doesn’t really make a difference if someone has more gold than you. Don’t throw a tantrum about it! There will be bots selling gold anyway! They could do a similar wow token on their cash shop. That has worked great for wow or they wouldn’t have it, right?
Oh wait.. ANY sort of cash shop takes the authenticity and enjoyment out of achieving things in game! Yes, that includes cosmetics! If cosmetics weren’t important, they wouldn’t be able to sell them.
This is a non-released video game, who cares this much that I think cash shops ruin mmos and shared that opinion? Get a life if all you do is defend big business monetization models.
If what you are after is an in game means of earning different appearances, given the fact that Ashes offers you exactly this, what is the issue?
Because I have already answered this question in the cumulative of all my posts and I don't feel like repeating myself for you, again. You refuse to attempt to understand my opinion and perspective with all I have already shared and I don't care to keep explaining it or defending it for you. Also, you are a bit obsessive with it. Have a good day.
I have read your argument in regards to you wanting the kind of gameplay that you enjoy.
I agree with you.
I have not seen you address the fact that Ashes contains that kind of gameplay.
Until you have said why you still have a complaint even when the type of gameplay you want is present, you have not addressed the question - because that is what the question is.
From where I am standing, the only thing I can assume is that even though the gameplay type you want will be present, you want to force that gameplay type on to people that do not wish to participate in it, as it is alternatives to that kind of gameplay that you are opposed to in this thread.
In regards to your analogy to selling gold, that doesn't hold up. If someone is able to pay to get more gold, that means they get more power. Them having more power than you directly impacts you in a negative way.
People having purchased gear from the store doesn't negatively impact you in any way. If anything, it makes your gameplay experience richer, as there are more visual appearances players can opt to use - or at least more that players WILL opt to use (I wouldn't spend more than 30 seconds in game on my characters appearance, but I'm happy to support a developer for $20 or so every few months if I am enjoying the game enough - if that means I get a new appearance, fine).
Your argument just doesn't make logical sense. Sure, you don't like cash shops, we all get that. What you have not said is why you can't just not use it. You still have the gameplay you want, and there are no negative consequences for you if you don't use it.
Is a cosmetic that provides abilities that in game gear doesn't have available pay to win? What kind of abilities are acceptable and which aren't? Which skills are more important in this determination and why?
For example, what if it's an ability that is simply a "cosmetic" glow effect, but you cannot glow without it. It might have a tiny impact on gameplay as you can glow in say a dark cave, but this was not perfectly thought out. Now is it pay to win?
In my opinion, if gear has any stats on it, it becomes pay to win. Any piece of gear that doesn't have a stat attached to it, yet provides something that might give a player an advantage over other players is bad design.
"...If everything is going to be perfectly equal between cash shop and in-game to prevent it from having any advantage and being pay to win, does special and better appearances in cash shop then definitely not become the "winning" at that point after everything has been collected? How do you suggest it is kept perfectly equal so there "is no advantage"?..."
Well, first of all, if collecting every appearance in game is how you want to play then more power to you. If that's what you enjoy, then go for it. I just don't happen to believe that it is possible to collect everything. Even if there was no cash shop, I still wouldn't believe it was possible. Well, at least not possible for me. I know that somethings will be behind skill walls, and some things - like legendaries - are simply going to be very rare with a limited number per server. So I don't think "winning" in this way is possible. I'm not saying it's not a valid way to play, just that the odds are already against you. That challenge may make it more fun, I don't know.
In terms of keeping everything equal, for me that is not putting stats on cash shop gear. You obviously have a different opinion. Whether or not cash shop gear is better looking than in game obtainable gear is a matter or personal taste. So far, I've seen snazzy looking gear both in the shop and in game obtainable, and I've seen gear in both that just wasn't my taste. At this point, we don't even know what will be in the shop when the game goes live - we only know what they offer month to month. I don't know how the shop set up will change once it's live.
I have nothing against you or how you want to play the game. To each his own. We can just agree to disagree.
@Iridianny Look, I have never disagreed, cash shops de decrease the value of awesome item sets earned by providing players with awesome cosmetics bought BUT also I can accept this style of money grab vs what i view as the alternative. Items that provide buffs or stats
(true P2W) We know your opinion regarding the cosmetic shop we aren't saying we don't understand that, we are saying your opinion that it will ruin the game is wrong and our reasons are listed above, we are stating that a cosmetic shop is an acceptable "evil" we are stating that most players have the mental fortitude (or maybe just the mental capacity tbh) to work around not being able to afford in game cosmetics unlike other players.
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If gear was not going to be available in game, then I might agree with you. But there will be gear available in game that you can collect. There will be crafted gear and gear available from drops and rewards. I've seen some nice looking gear that Steven has pointed out will be available in game. I would be upset if the only decent looking gear came from the cash shop.
Are you this upset about gear that might be behind a skill barrier? Some of us, because I know I am not the only player that really isn't all that great when it comes to actual skill in playing the game, will never touch that gear. Even though we pay our subscription for access to the game and all its parts, we won't get to enjoy that. Isn't that the same logic? I am a collector and it bugs me a little that I know from the beginning that there is some stuff that I just won't get. But such is life.
Now this multi million dollar fully funded game company, as you call it, is fully funded for development thanks to investors and Steven's deep pockets. But I seriously doubt Steven wants this game to become his own personal money pit. I'm sure he would like to earn some profit, and I do not begrudge him that at all. But this game and company will need continued funding to keep servers going and for continued development. They believe they can do that from subs and a cash shop. I'm fine with that model. The lower sub price appeals to a broad socio economic base. The cash shop will spread out "the burden" to players with a little extra money for cosmetics.
I'm sorry that you don't like or think that it's fair. But that is the model that they have chosen to run with.
Just got my Ashes pre-order pack earlier in February. Fully front-loaded with cosmetics.
I am now primed and ready to enjoy Ashes in all it's glory ... without being saddled with that pesky extra box cost.
See thats where the community disgarees with you fully. Most people want the base game and nothing else. Some people want the base game and all its DLC others want as much as possible. Most people aren't willing to pay for something they don't want. Why force the community to pay $5 extra a month for monthly cosmetics that they may or may not want when you can just ask an individual to pay $20 for that cosmetic. You decrease the cost for the average player, increasing your player base while keeping the same level of funding you had either way. You don't force someone to buy everything when they only want something. Your logic is awful
Are you being ignorant intentionally? There’s is no gameplay to picking outfits. There’s often gameplay involved in collecting the styles and dyes, but none in using them. It doesn’t matter if you spend thirty seconds on your outfit or thirty hours, it still isn’t gameplay. There is zero impact on the game world or other players when you change your style from a basic style to some uber-whale cash cosmetic. Thus anything bought in the cash shop requires no gameplay to obtain and the act of equipping them is also not gameplay, so obviously it’s not a gameplay related issue.
You’re so stuck up your own ego you can’t understand that everyone else is seeing your posts as temper tantrums, and they’re not wrong.
If you read anything you’d easily see how I am talking about the gameplay of collecting the appearances. I am not sure what you’re getting at here. I’m also not sure what qualifies a “tantrum,” but I guess you think it’s an opposing opinion.
So you are okay with a box cost for expansion content in the future?
Is a cosmetic that provides abilities that in game gear doesn't have available pay to win? What kind of abilities are acceptable and which aren't? Which skills are more important in this determination and why?
For example, what if it's an ability that is simply a "cosmetic" glow effect, but you cannot glow without it. It might have a tiny impact on gameplay as you can glow in say a dark cave, but this was not perfectly thought out. Now is it pay to win?
If everything is going to be perfectly equal between cash shop and in-game to prevent it from having any advantage and being pay to win, does special and better appearances in cash shop then definitely not become the "winning" at that point after everything has been collected? How do you suggest it is kept perfectly equal so there "is no advantage"?
So what is your problem about then?
You still have that gameplay in Ashes.
whales will never learn.
See Scam Citizen.
It appears to me that Iridianny is someone who is passionate about their pleasure in outfits and costumes being a large part of what they perceive as fun in the game. It looks like she does have interest in AoC, though that interest may be in different things than many other people.
I wouldn't characterize Iridianny as a troll, but just someone different and passionate, which is cool by me.
If Iridianny had any interest in actual discussion I’d agree with you. She doesn’t. She just keeps repeating the same unreasoning diatribes, interspersed with insults to the community. The game is clearly not the game she’d like it to be, but instead of accepting that, she will attack anyone who disagrees with her and keep proselytizing.
You are mistaking zealotry and tantrums for passion.
If I had no interest in this game I wouldn’t even post on here. I actually am really passionate about mmos and this one seems very exciting for it’s diverse gameplay progression routes.
Sharing my opinion on a form of monetization (cash shop), that is widely scrutinized in all mmos, of a game that is in development and seeking feedback doesn’t make me a troll. You are a troll for continuing to post comments like “put her on ignore” instead of adding to the discussion with any sort of understanding of my perspective and people who play games like me. You ignore all my points and believe you are saying something worthwhile with “this game just isn’t for you!”
I wanted to take both the threads down, but here is a quote from a staff member to me: “I think the posts you made were insightful and interesting and, in my opinion, I would love it if they stayed so that the design team can take your feedback into account as they work on building Ashes of Creation.”
You are the one ignoring points.
The following question has been put to you a number of times, and you refuse to answer it;
Ashes still has a gameplay path where you play the game, complete content and gain unique appearances as a result. These appearances are the ones that players that enjoy this gameplay path will go after, and are also the appearances that players that really care about how their characters look will go after.
Since this seems to be what you are after in an MMO, what difference does it make to you if there is also other content that is not what you are after (in this case, the cash shop).
That is about the same as someone like me, a raider, complaining that there is also solo content in the game. I want my content to be for raids, not solo players. However, if the are enough raids to keep me and my guild content, I personally don't at all care if there is also some other content in the game. I do not expect all content in the game to be directly catered to me and my guild, and it is up to us to work out if something is or is not for us.
Once again, as long as there is enough of the content we want, we don't much care what shape the rest of the content takes.
The cash shop is content for other people, you have the content in the game that you are after.
So, based on al of the above, what is your issue? You seem to be complaining about content that is designed for other people, rather than concerning yourself with content that is designed for you.
Why do you care so much about me and my personal issues?
I have listed objective concerns with cash shops in all mmos, how it affects players like me, and the potential direction of them within this mmo.
I’ve repeatedly tried to steer the conversation there, but you just want to change my personal distaste for them? You won’t.
You don't get to steer the conversation - not if that means ignoring questions and then claiming others are ignoring your points.
You don't like cash shops, cool. That does not explain at all why you can't just ignore it. The game still has the kind of content you say you are after, so you have not actually given a valid reason for a complaint here - literally making this a tantrum.
I agree with the above poster that says you are not just trolling. However, you have not explained why you are so against content for other gamers, when the game has the type of content you want to participate in.
The way it is now, there is a cash shop in the game that you would not be expected to intract with, and content in the game by which you can earn appearance gear. I see nothing at all in that for you to complain about - you are literally complaining about content made for players that are not you.
You are welcome to not like that content, it isn't for you.
I don't like arenas. Ashes will have an arena. I am not complaining about that, as that is straight up content for other people, not for me. Why *WOULD* I complain about that, when I know it isnt for me and I can just ignore it?
The only reason you can't ignore it is if you are so petty that you can't bear to see other players in cosmetics that everyone knows have been bought. That is as petty as it gets.
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I feel it also worth pointing out that the general disdain for cash shops in games is really just disdain for pay to win. The terms cash shop and pay to win are conflated in many games, as in most games they are basically the same thing. Since that isn't the case in Ashes, the general disdain for cash shops in other games doesn't really apply here.
So, that's what this is really about, is it? You don't like that they're selling stuff for a game that hasn't yet been released...
Right. At least now we can let this thread die!
No buddy, this thread is not about that if you could read it.
I don’t dislike it or like it, actually it’s a great money making model to charge for a promise. The average consumer doesn’t pay for one though.
So, it’s funny to see the way those that did also defend why this game, that isn’t released and doesn’t even have a release date, has to have more money and it has to be a cash shop. Also, the way you are all so invested in cash shops because Steven told you to be is what is amusing.
P.S. if you want a thread to die, you shouldn't comment on it.
We "defend" it because we understand that Intrepid have researched different payment models, have expertise in this area that none of the posters here have, and we all value knowledge and expertise.
There are two more facts to add to the above, however. The first is that Intrepids payment model isn't just "we want to make all the money". If they were just trying to make as much money as they could, the monetization scheme they have is not the way to go. They have picked this particular scheme because they think - with their knowledge, expertise and research - that it is the best option.
Second, they have given us the reasoning behind it, which they did not need to do. While some individuals may disagree with their reasoning, they can only do so from a subjective perspective. If you look at things from Intrepids perspective, this monetization makes perfect sense.
One other reason I am defending it in this particular thread is because you are still unable to answer a basic question. If what you are after is an in game means of earning different appearances, given the fact that Ashes offers you exactly this, what is the issue?
Your repeated refusal to answer this question is quite telling, to be honest.
Because I have already answered this question in the cumulative of all my posts and I don't feel like repeating myself for you, again. You refuse to attempt to understand my opinion and perspective with all I have already shared and I don't care to keep explaining it or defending it for you. Also, you are a bit obsessive with it. Have a good day.
I’ve already explained why I don’t like cash shops many many times.
Why wouldn’t you like pay for gold? It doesn’t really make a difference if someone has more gold than you. Don’t throw a tantrum about it! There will be bots selling gold anyway! They could do a similar wow token on their cash shop. That has worked great for wow or they wouldn’t have it, right?
Oh wait.. ANY sort of cash shop takes the authenticity and enjoyment out of achieving things in game! Yes, that includes cosmetics! If cosmetics weren’t important, they wouldn’t be able to sell them.
This is a non-released video game, who cares this much that I think cash shops ruin mmos and shared that opinion? Get a life if all you do is defend big business monetization models.
I agree with you.
I have not seen you address the fact that Ashes contains that kind of gameplay.
Until you have said why you still have a complaint even when the type of gameplay you want is present, you have not addressed the question - because that is what the question is.
From where I am standing, the only thing I can assume is that even though the gameplay type you want will be present, you want to force that gameplay type on to people that do not wish to participate in it, as it is alternatives to that kind of gameplay that you are opposed to in this thread.
In regards to your analogy to selling gold, that doesn't hold up. If someone is able to pay to get more gold, that means they get more power. Them having more power than you directly impacts you in a negative way.
People having purchased gear from the store doesn't negatively impact you in any way. If anything, it makes your gameplay experience richer, as there are more visual appearances players can opt to use - or at least more that players WILL opt to use (I wouldn't spend more than 30 seconds in game on my characters appearance, but I'm happy to support a developer for $20 or so every few months if I am enjoying the game enough - if that means I get a new appearance, fine).
Your argument just doesn't make logical sense. Sure, you don't like cash shops, we all get that. What you have not said is why you can't just not use it. You still have the gameplay you want, and there are no negative consequences for you if you don't use it.
In my opinion, if gear has any stats on it, it becomes pay to win. Any piece of gear that doesn't have a stat attached to it, yet provides something that might give a player an advantage over other players is bad design.
Well, first of all, if collecting every appearance in game is how you want to play then more power to you. If that's what you enjoy, then go for it. I just don't happen to believe that it is possible to collect everything. Even if there was no cash shop, I still wouldn't believe it was possible. Well, at least not possible for me. I know that somethings will be behind skill walls, and some things - like legendaries - are simply going to be very rare with a limited number per server. So I don't think "winning" in this way is possible. I'm not saying it's not a valid way to play, just that the odds are already against you. That challenge may make it more fun, I don't know.
In terms of keeping everything equal, for me that is not putting stats on cash shop gear. You obviously have a different opinion. Whether or not cash shop gear is better looking than in game obtainable gear is a matter or personal taste. So far, I've seen snazzy looking gear both in the shop and in game obtainable, and I've seen gear in both that just wasn't my taste. At this point, we don't even know what will be in the shop when the game goes live - we only know what they offer month to month. I don't know how the shop set up will change once it's live.
I have nothing against you or how you want to play the game. To each his own. We can just agree to disagree.
(true P2W) We know your opinion regarding the cosmetic shop we aren't saying we don't understand that, we are saying your opinion that it will ruin the game is wrong and our reasons are listed above, we are stating that a cosmetic shop is an acceptable "evil" we are stating that most players have the mental fortitude (or maybe just the mental capacity tbh) to work around not being able to afford in game cosmetics unlike other players.