I think the Ashes devs should ignore Lost Ark. It's a Hack and Slash MMO.
You cant even call it a mmo. Lost Ark is a typicall korean "mmo".
In short: I dont want anything from Lost Ark in Ashes.
2
PitouMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Have server transfer .People want to play the game with friends and also play the game like the server problem is always going to effect new release. Or work with big guilds to see what server they are going.
Location search missions with a map that some rare mob gives you
I think it makes it a bit easy, the locations are not entirely difficult to find and it is very linear, you only have to see the mission map and compare it with your map find the similarity of the drawing and you know the location.
This was a mission that consisted of reaching a certain location in a limited time, the truth was a waste of time, I did not have any challenge, they gave me more than 2 minutes to complete it and I did that race in 20 seconds, what is the point of that ?
I think LA made a mistake there, I don't see any sense in it.
This was a mission that consisted of reaching a certain location in a limited time, the truth was a waste of time, I did not have any challenge, they gave me more than 2 minutes to complete it and I did that race in 20 seconds, what is the point of that ?
I think LA made a mistake there, I don't see any sense in it.
Yep, I agree - there was no context for why you had to rush there. It was just a sudden mission dropped on you.
And to make it worse it rewards you with significant exp... for walking from A to B.
I wish I were deep and tragic
1
mcstackersonMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Says the person who is in a thread about features of a game you have not played giving an overarching opinion that nothing in the game you have not played is worth looking into.
I've started playing Lost Ark...bc there is nothing else to really play...It kinda feels like a better Diablo 2...
It's ok..Kinda fun but nothing earth shattering.
I will tell you what is truly disappointing with Lost Ark...Zero difference in character importance. I wanted to play a healer so I chose Bard. Only to find out Bard doesn't really do any healing but some mild support...BORING.
Please please please AoC...Whatever you do...make sure each character has its own needed meta in groups, dungeons and raids.
Creators of new MMO's still don't get it. Players want to progress their character throughout content...we don't want everything now and upfront...we also want to feel like what we are doing in dungeons and raids is beneficial to the party you are in.
A big part of other MMO's (outside classic wow) is it really doesn't matter what class you chose bc all classes can do all things. Dumb and instant delete game.
If I decide to pick a healer it is because I actually want to cast spells to heal my team and party..
Other piece of advice is to make content challenging. Lost Ark I'm basically just running thru content with ease.
If by level 40 in an MMO I haven't died yet then the game is just too easy and I'll lose interest.
The details, the damn details make the difference
I was cutting a tree when another player came to cut the same tree, my ax and his ax disappeared and became a long saw so that the two of us working as a team can cut the tree, what a nice touch.
That caused us to have a conversation and become friends.
The game has alot of overall content I would say. While it is fairly end-game focused, you do have the Chaos Dungeons, Guardian Raids, Tower, Cube, Endless? Lots of Islands and events then you can just stick to the main story.
Not everything is locked by exclusively one way of doing things, i.e. you can focus on doing islands to get materials or you can grind the dungeons etc. but there is definitely some variety out there.
I love the stronghold being your own personalised space, I see Freeholds as aspiring to be more in terms of customisation but the Stronghold in Lost Ark definitely feels like a nice space.
There are some nice small story arks. Using lullaby island as an example, the story is short but sweet, the music on the island is great. And leading onto that, all the islands and continents all have their own identity.
The game has a RESTED system for things like Dungeons and Guardian raids. Miss a day? You get bonus rewards to make up for time, though I feel like this is more of an incentive to play alts. I do not think ashes needs a system like this, but it is a good system in this environment.
-What things from Lost Ark shouldn't inspire AoC?
I would say that alot of the game has very linear aspects or "mandatory content" i.e. content is locked behind t1, t2 and t3 which requires you to clear content from t1, t2 and t3 respectively, generally across the board. The counter to this is that you do have a mix of content to achieve some of the "currency" needed to progress your character but you can also set your own pace.
The game strongly encourages Alts. I don't think that Ashes should *discourage* alts, but I do think that my main character should benefit me more for my time than an alt, unless the alt is around for a different purpose (i.e. different life skill) - in that sense it could support my main but wouldn't be mandatory.
--
I think that Ashes should implore to have a large blend of available content, but it should be purposeful. As much of it as possible should tie into the economy to make it relevant - but good sources of rewards for completionists to give different incentives.
In Lost Ark, all the rolling events, while short do draw in alot of players together and it just feels good going to places in different corners of the globe and have there be a good turnout.
--
It's worth noting, there's alot known already i.e. Ashes will have alot of content that's one thing about the scope of the project. And there will be dynamic events. So I guess having events based on different criteria, so some are fixed time daily/weekly. I.e. a fishing tournament! Some are on a cooldown, so kill a rare mob, and it respawns in 1-2-4-8-16 hours. Complete a dynamic quest chain and at the end, the quest will be triggered after a cooldown by killing x bandits in an area.
I think Ashes has alot of good stuff nailed on, but they are definitely the kind of company to take on board feedback from other games doing things right.
Lost Ark does a really good job of locking out content from new players, then gradually introducing things as players progress.
When I started playing, I was overwhelmed by the number of NPC icons on the town map at first, but when I realized that grey things were locked/trivial then it made it easier to digest and know what to focus on.
Lost Ark does a really good job of locking out content from new players, then gradually introducing things as players progress.
When I started playing, I was overwhelmed by the number of NPC icons on the town map at first, but when I realized that grey things were locked/trivial then it made it easier to digest and know what to focus on.
That's true! And you tend to read up on things as you learn the game and there are a ton of features. But just playing and the quests that introduce you to new features one thing at a time, you realise that individually they aren't complicated at all, it's just the numbers which can overwhelm you.
Here the detail is forgotten.
In this mission you had to help a mokoko to cross the river, when you pick up the mokoko it would have been detailed to put the mokoko on the shoulder or in some part of the armor where it could be seen, that was what the mission stated but the mokoko disappeared, I think they forgot the detail there .
This was a mission in a pirate dugeon where you had to rescue a ship that was going to set sail.
The issue with this is that in the dialogue the npc that gives you my mission tells you that the ship will leave in a few minutes but you can stay fighting with the npcs and the boss for hours and the ship will not leave.
I think that there LA missed a great opportunity to do a mission with limited time, that would have been a challenge since that mission was from a dungeon and supposedly it should be difficult.
0
AtamaMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I played Lost Ark. Why not, it's free.
It's very pretty. The effects are really nice. Over-the-top, but nice. So is the sound.
The gameplay is very generic. It reminds me of a lot of mobile games I've played that have come from Asia. That's not to say it's bad, it's just... Okay.
It is just not an MMORPG. It reminds me a lot of the Dungeon Hunter games I played on my iPhone a long time ago. I don't see a lot in this game you can draw inspiration from for Ashes, it's such a different genre, with different goals and styles.
Still, the game isn't trash, it's kind of neat. I made a Paladin, and the game does a great job of making you feel powerful.
The details, the damn details make the difference
I was cutting a tree when another player came to cut the same tree, my ax and his ax disappeared and became a long saw so that the two of us working as a team can cut the tree, what a nice touch.
That caused us to have a conversation and become friends.
But you didn't have a misery whip in your inventory.... muh immersion!
I can't believe they sanction kill-stealing in the arborist sense, boooo!
So after he tried to steal your firewood (resulting in children eating raw meat), did you bury him in a nice glade and plant a tree over his corpse? The reapings of his self-centered actions.
It's very pretty. The effects are really nice. Over-the-top, but nice. So is the sound.
The gameplay is very generic. It reminds me of a lot of mobile games I've played that have come from Asia. That's not to say it's bad, it's just... Okay.
It is just not an MMORPG. It reminds me a lot of the Dungeon Hunter games I played on my iPhone a long time ago. I don't see a lot in this game you can draw inspiration from for Ashes, it's such a different genre, with different goals and styles.
Still, the game isn't trash, it's kind of neat. I made a Paladin, and the game does a great job of making you feel powerful.
Of course LA is going another way and for AOC's claims that path is not the right one, however I think that LA is a living example (I think the only one in 6 years) in which a good job can be appreciated therefore if LA has been doing a good job there are things/details that AoC could analyze not to look like him or copy him but to be inspired to create something better.
For example, the little details that make some things more colourful/showy/detailed
When you go up with that flower, the sound is adapted, that little detail that is found in many other scenarios makes it feel that many things in LA world has correlation with their movements / acts.
Instead of creating super different mobs and elaborated for a main history dungeon, they used stone eggs and stone blocks, since the main theme in which the atmosphere revolved in that dungeon was "the stone".
They were minimalists but at the same time he had a lot of correlation since those eggs and stone blocks were the beginning of the giant stone race or that gave to understand.
Then, AOC has its own aspirations, ways of thinking about their development and ways of thinking that revolve around their own genre, for that reason LA does not have much to offer, since it goes more on the other side, but if that has been doing a good job on his own path, then there should be things, small details in his creation / development that make it different / successful, therefore, that would be an opportunity to try to analyze those details and see if that is helpful or not for AOC.
In the end, all I try to do is give feedback of what fun me as a player.
I trust the Intrepid team and the AoC developers, they continue to show passion, effort and dedication, so whatever they decide to do will be the best for AoC.
2
mcstackersonMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
It is just not an MMORPG. It reminds me a lot of the Dungeon Hunter games I played on my iPhone a long time ago. I don't see a lot in this game you can draw inspiration from for Ashes, it's such a different genre, with different goals and styles.
I don't think anyone is saying that ashes should straight up copy systems from lost ark or change to be like it but inspiration doesn't have to come from games that are similar.
The lore of Ashes is coming from a homebrew pathfinder campaign Steven made. A tabletop RPG is not an MMORPG yet the games narrative comes from it. There might be some class inspiration from pathfinder as well.
Going off that, one thing i think lost ark does well is the variety of stories in the game. I'm not going to praise the stories themselves but you go from a traditional European medival fantasy story, to helping small people who live in a tree, to an Asian fighting tournament + mystery, etc. I think one of the strengths of this is how drastically different the stories felt and is something to think about when crafting the different stories for Ashes.
In the ocean, you have areas with different debuffs that affect your ship in different ways. I could see something similar implement in ashes' ocean.
The skill point system changes ability's element and how it function. Some of them could easily be used to inspire the augments and skill upgrades in ashes.
Combat wise, there is some variety in how skills are executed. You have charge/release skills, hold to use, and quick time event skills. I think this is part of what makes the combat feel good.
I could go on but hopefully i've kind of made my point. Not saying ashes needs to use any of these ideas or they haven't been done else where but with how popular Lost Ark has been, I think it's worth looking at the aspects of the game people like to see what could overlap with ashes design goals.
The details, the damn details make the difference
I was cutting a tree when another player came to cut the same tree, my ax and his ax disappeared and became a long saw so that the two of us working as a team can cut the tree, what a nice touch.
That caused us to have a conversation and become friends.
But you didn't have a misery whip in your inventory.... muh immersion!
I can't believe they sanction kill-stealing in the arborist sense, boooo!
So after he tried to steal your firewood (resulting in children eating raw meat), did you bury him in a nice glade and plant a tree over his corpse? The reapings of his self-centered actions.
Ngl , If there had been open world pvp I would have challenged him to a duel to the death for that.
Depends heavily on world build. Cute mounts should exist. If there isn't a general thematic of extremely bright colors, I'd rather it not happen. If there are not some sort of puppetmaster/mad scientist/toy maker world influence level npc i'd rather not. If there are not some sort of native class that wields magic of that type I'd rather not.
So far AoC has the first and third of those options on the list. If they add in the second as well I'll be glad stufferton exists (because we all know what you were indirectly referring to.) As it stands I'm ambivalent and mildly positive. I hate sparkly particle effects on mounts and gear though. I prefer them on actual abilities.
Not always.
The strengths and weaknesses of an orange don't necessarily cross over to the strengths and weaknesses of an apple.
An orange is not going to give me much inspiration of what I should do to make a great apple pie.
Why are you so closed to ideas? You know the game has all the potential to fail, right?
It doesn't cost anything for us to try to understand the other's point, if you get so resistant to trying help the discussion maybe you don't need to create noise.
Comments
Lost ark is closer to a multiplayer ARPG than a MMORPG.
So very elements should be considered.
You cant even call it a mmo. Lost Ark is a typicall korean "mmo".
In short: I dont want anything from Lost Ark in Ashes.
I'm cool with cute mounts...
But jarring immersion heading pinatas is not cool
I think it makes it a bit easy, the locations are not entirely difficult to find and it is very linear, you only have to see the mission map and compare it with your map find the similarity of the drawing and you know the location.
The secret locations to discover their locations make you want to explore all the map
I think LA made a mistake there, I don't see any sense in it.
Yep, I agree - there was no context for why you had to rush there. It was just a sudden mission dropped on you.
And to make it worse it rewards you with significant exp... for walking from A to B.
Well too late for that. Ashes is going to have quests, combat, skill points, swords, boats, islands, raid bosses, etc.
This comes off as extremely ignorant.
Are you a lost ark expect? Have you played through every system and know that the is nothing that can be gained from it?
You don't have to share my opinion.
It's ok..Kinda fun but nothing earth shattering.
I will tell you what is truly disappointing with Lost Ark...Zero difference in character importance. I wanted to play a healer so I chose Bard. Only to find out Bard doesn't really do any healing but some mild support...BORING.
Please please please AoC...Whatever you do...make sure each character has its own needed meta in groups, dungeons and raids.
Creators of new MMO's still don't get it. Players want to progress their character throughout content...we don't want everything now and upfront...we also want to feel like what we are doing in dungeons and raids is beneficial to the party you are in.
A big part of other MMO's (outside classic wow) is it really doesn't matter what class you chose bc all classes can do all things. Dumb and instant delete game.
If I decide to pick a healer it is because I actually want to cast spells to heal my team and party..
Other piece of advice is to make content challenging. Lost Ark I'm basically just running thru content with ease.
If by level 40 in an MMO I haven't died yet then the game is just too easy and I'll lose interest.
I was cutting a tree when another player came to cut the same tree, my ax and his ax disappeared and became a long saw so that the two of us working as a team can cut the tree, what a nice touch.
That caused us to have a conversation and become friends.
The game has alot of overall content I would say. While it is fairly end-game focused, you do have the Chaos Dungeons, Guardian Raids, Tower, Cube, Endless? Lots of Islands and events then you can just stick to the main story.
Not everything is locked by exclusively one way of doing things, i.e. you can focus on doing islands to get materials or you can grind the dungeons etc. but there is definitely some variety out there.
I love the stronghold being your own personalised space, I see Freeholds as aspiring to be more in terms of customisation but the Stronghold in Lost Ark definitely feels like a nice space.
There are some nice small story arks. Using lullaby island as an example, the story is short but sweet, the music on the island is great. And leading onto that, all the islands and continents all have their own identity.
The game has a RESTED system for things like Dungeons and Guardian raids. Miss a day? You get bonus rewards to make up for time, though I feel like this is more of an incentive to play alts. I do not think ashes needs a system like this, but it is a good system in this environment.
-What things from Lost Ark shouldn't inspire AoC?
I would say that alot of the game has very linear aspects or "mandatory content" i.e. content is locked behind t1, t2 and t3 which requires you to clear content from t1, t2 and t3 respectively, generally across the board. The counter to this is that you do have a mix of content to achieve some of the "currency" needed to progress your character but you can also set your own pace.
The game strongly encourages Alts. I don't think that Ashes should *discourage* alts, but I do think that my main character should benefit me more for my time than an alt, unless the alt is around for a different purpose (i.e. different life skill) - in that sense it could support my main but wouldn't be mandatory.
--
I think that Ashes should implore to have a large blend of available content, but it should be purposeful. As much of it as possible should tie into the economy to make it relevant - but good sources of rewards for completionists to give different incentives.
In Lost Ark, all the rolling events, while short do draw in alot of players together and it just feels good going to places in different corners of the globe and have there be a good turnout.
--
It's worth noting, there's alot known already i.e. Ashes will have alot of content that's one thing about the scope of the project. And there will be dynamic events. So I guess having events based on different criteria, so some are fixed time daily/weekly. I.e. a fishing tournament! Some are on a cooldown, so kill a rare mob, and it respawns in 1-2-4-8-16 hours. Complete a dynamic quest chain and at the end, the quest will be triggered after a cooldown by killing x bandits in an area.
I think Ashes has alot of good stuff nailed on, but they are definitely the kind of company to take on board feedback from other games doing things right.
Lost Ark does a really good job of locking out content from new players, then gradually introducing things as players progress.
When I started playing, I was overwhelmed by the number of NPC icons on the town map at first, but when I realized that grey things were locked/trivial then it made it easier to digest and know what to focus on.
That's true! And you tend to read up on things as you learn the game and there are a ton of features. But just playing and the quests that introduce you to new features one thing at a time, you realise that individually they aren't complicated at all, it's just the numbers which can overwhelm you.
Yes, and incorporating well-received features from other successful games in an original way is also a good strategy.
In this mission you had to help a mokoko to cross the river, when you pick up the mokoko it would have been detailed to put the mokoko on the shoulder or in some part of the armor where it could be seen, that was what the mission stated but the mokoko disappeared, I think they forgot the detail there .
The issue with this is that in the dialogue the npc that gives you my mission tells you that the ship will leave in a few minutes but you can stay fighting with the npcs and the boss for hours and the ship will not leave.
I think that there LA missed a great opportunity to do a mission with limited time, that would have been a challenge since that mission was from a dungeon and supposedly it should be difficult.
It's very pretty. The effects are really nice. Over-the-top, but nice. So is the sound.
The gameplay is very generic. It reminds me of a lot of mobile games I've played that have come from Asia. That's not to say it's bad, it's just... Okay.
It is just not an MMORPG. It reminds me a lot of the Dungeon Hunter games I played on my iPhone a long time ago. I don't see a lot in this game you can draw inspiration from for Ashes, it's such a different genre, with different goals and styles.
Still, the game isn't trash, it's kind of neat. I made a Paladin, and the game does a great job of making you feel powerful.
But you didn't have a misery whip in your inventory.... muh immersion!
I can't believe they sanction kill-stealing in the arborist sense, boooo!
So after he tried to steal your firewood (resulting in children eating raw meat), did you bury him in a nice glade and plant a tree over his corpse? The reapings of his self-centered actions.
Of course LA is going another way and for AOC's claims that path is not the right one, however I think that LA is a living example (I think the only one in 6 years) in which a good job can be appreciated therefore if LA has been doing a good job there are things/details that AoC could analyze not to look like him or copy him but to be inspired to create something better.
For example, the little details that make some things more colourful/showy/detailed
When you go up with that flower, the sound is adapted, that little detail that is found in many other scenarios makes it feel that many things in LA world has correlation with their movements / acts.
Instead of creating super different mobs and elaborated for a main history dungeon, they used stone eggs and stone blocks, since the main theme in which the atmosphere revolved in that dungeon was "the stone".
They were minimalists but at the same time he had a lot of correlation since those eggs and stone blocks were the beginning of the giant stone race or that gave to understand.
Then, AOC has its own aspirations, ways of thinking about their development and ways of thinking that revolve around their own genre, for that reason LA does not have much to offer, since it goes more on the other side, but if that has been doing a good job on his own path, then there should be things, small details in his creation / development that make it different / successful, therefore, that would be an opportunity to try to analyze those details and see if that is helpful or not for AOC.
In the end, all I try to do is give feedback of what fun me as a player.
I trust the Intrepid team and the AoC developers, they continue to show passion, effort and dedication, so whatever they decide to do will be the best for AoC.
I don't think anyone is saying that ashes should straight up copy systems from lost ark or change to be like it but inspiration doesn't have to come from games that are similar.
The lore of Ashes is coming from a homebrew pathfinder campaign Steven made. A tabletop RPG is not an MMORPG yet the games narrative comes from it. There might be some class inspiration from pathfinder as well.
Going off that, one thing i think lost ark does well is the variety of stories in the game. I'm not going to praise the stories themselves but you go from a traditional European medival fantasy story, to helping small people who live in a tree, to an Asian fighting tournament + mystery, etc. I think one of the strengths of this is how drastically different the stories felt and is something to think about when crafting the different stories for Ashes.
In the ocean, you have areas with different debuffs that affect your ship in different ways. I could see something similar implement in ashes' ocean.
The skill point system changes ability's element and how it function. Some of them could easily be used to inspire the augments and skill upgrades in ashes.
Combat wise, there is some variety in how skills are executed. You have charge/release skills, hold to use, and quick time event skills. I think this is part of what makes the combat feel good.
I could go on but hopefully i've kind of made my point. Not saying ashes needs to use any of these ideas or they haven't been done else where but with how popular Lost Ark has been, I think it's worth looking at the aspects of the game people like to see what could overlap with ashes design goals.
Ngl , If there had been open world pvp I would have challenged him to a duel to the death for that.
I agree with you, good point
pog
Why are you so closed to ideas? You know the game has all the potential to fail, right?
It doesn't cost anything for us to try to understand the other's point, if you get so resistant to trying help the discussion maybe you don't need to create noise.