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Lineage 3 vs Ashes of Creation | What now Steven?

BirthdayBirthday Member
edited March 2022 in General Discussion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plL2AZ9HdP4

DId AoC take too much time to release?
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    NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Project TL has been known about since 2017.
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    Cool , new blood for the genre, better for everyone.
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    bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Stay the course pal!
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
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    Too korean
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    TrUSivrajTrUSivraj Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I wasn't even hyped for that game. Doesn't appeal to my personal taste. AoC has my trust for the near-perfect mmo of my lifetime. I don't need insane action in mmos, just enough action to keep my adrenaline flowing when necessary.
    Future Falconer, Top 1% PvPer and owner of Big and Beautiful Homesteads
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    edited March 2022
    We talking NCsoft here, i believe we can expect some pretty intense P2W and as we well know, one of Ashes main selling points is it's No-P2W ideal. Other than that we are still lacking a lot of information about TL to know how much of a rival to Ashes, TL can be.

    As a long-time L2 player i will be certainly checking out the game tho.
    I mean it's been in production since 2011 it has to be atleast interesting. [COPIUM]
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    Aren't we all sinners?
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    fabulafabula Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Was a big L2 fan but from what I don't see I am very dissapointed. It just seems like an updated version of L2 with the same overall mechanics. Most ppl will solo grind in areas and the "dynamic" environment will just be events that kick off from time to time. There will be huge bosses but it will always be a zerg-fest type of boss.

    For L3 I was hoping they would combine their Group PvP castle sieges add western-style mmo dungeons/raids.

    Group PvP is the only saving grace, it was done pretty good in L2 and I hope its even better in L3. Hope I'm wrong about everything else though.
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    TalentsTalents Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited March 2022
    It's not Lineage 3, they confirmed as much in the developer interview. It was originally going to be L3 but they changed course part-way through development.
    Noaani wrote: »
    Project TL has been known about since 2017.

    The overall game has been in development since at least 2011. It started as Project Eternal. This game is the definition of being in development hell. A lot of the L2 fans seem to be really disappointed in this from what I've seen.

    It's NCSoft though so it'll 100% be P2W.
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    CawwCaww Member
    edited March 2022
    “We will sell no wine before its time”

    Like anything else, the quality of the product will determine the customer base, not the date of introduction.
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    It will just be another cash grab by ncsoft, not even close to what l2 once was, so not a direct competitor for aoc imo. By the time aoc launches TL will most likely be totally irrelevant.
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    George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    Old news. Looks like a mobile phone game.
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    VaknarVaknar Moderator, Member, Staff
    Cool , new blood for the genre, better for everyone.

    I totally agree with this. We're all MMORPG fans and gamers here and even if a game is similar to Ashes of Creation, doesn't mean we can't try it out and have fun with it!
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    OkeydokeOkeydoke Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Heh Asmon gave Steven and Ashes a little plug somewhere around midway through the video.

    I'll definitely try out the game if it has pvp systems I like and is not too heavy on p2w.

    I'm not worried about it as far as Ashes. If Ashes puts out the game they say they're going to put out, the full vision, it will be a banger. Yeah there's increased competition in the mmo genre on the horizon, between Throne and Liberty, Archeage 2 and the League of Legends mmo. We don't really know the full feature sets of either of those three games at this point or how much they'll directly compete with Ashes.

    But T&L is releasing this year so it's kind of moot. Ashes and the other two games are still years (hopefully not too many) off.
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    I have faith that ashes will do just fine even with the rise of new AAA MMOs coming out, The way I see it the more the better just gives ashes of creation competition a reason to strive for even more and keep innovating.
    Even with mad hype on any game as new worlds and the lost ark have shown us, if you keep consistent and good the players will stay if you start messing up or do questionable business decisions, bad dev support and whatnot, people will fall off rapidly and some maybe never return.
    if they do succeed and do unreal there are enough players these days to make all MMOs successful but as for me I'm always one game main and i have been waiting to get into a game like this for some time haha.
    good post mate.
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    hmmm korean game probaly gonna be pay to win going by history of Korean games
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    AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Another trash eastern MMORPG full of P2W. Games like this are why Ashes of Creation is needed so badly. It is needed as an alternative to the same-old garbage MMOs.

    AoC is not taking too long to release. This is like asking if a 4-Star chef is taking too long to open his restaurant because McDonald's just opened another location in the same city.
     
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    YandereChanYandereChan Member
    edited March 2022
    Uhh ill be playing both games lol im not biased. TL looks amazing and I cant wait to play it. Will it have p2w stuff? Most likely as they all do but I have reached very high gear scores in many korean MMOs without spending money and I will again for TL lol
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    I'm sorry, but how is Project TL even a competitor to Ashes?
    It's like saying Lost Ark is, when they are kind of completely different games..
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    AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I'm sorry, but how is Project TL even a competitor to Ashes?
    It's like saying Lost Ark is, when they are kind of completely different games..

    Because 'moderates' in the MMO community have time budgets.

    The sort of person on this forum posting is probably here because they have lots of investment in exactly how Ashes does things or were convinced by the specifics. There are not THAT many of us here.

    In order for Ashes to not 'lose some players to other games' (probably a decent chunk), even players that would enjoy Ashes, Intrepid would have to do certain things better or equal to many other games. Even among forum posters we already know that.

    Crafting, Combat, Dynamism, Questing, Balance, Ease of Grouping (in terms of mechanics and reasons to group), Incentives(general positive reasons to log in even when things aren't going great), Large Scale PvP, Social Motivators, Economy, 'Endgame' content, no/limited P2W

    I can't speak for others, but Ashes is not yet topping any of these for me, and more importantly, at the moment, I don't expect it to. Until TL was fully revealed, I could at least think:

    "Ashes will be the best for Dynamism and Large Scale PvP and maybe Incentives, for the next Gen of MMOs, so I just have to hope they get the rest somewhat right."

    TL has introduced a potential challenger for all three of those in one breath. I expect Ashes to still 'win' in Incentives because of NCSoft game design style, and most people seem to expect it to blow them away in 'No P2W' due to previous experiences.

    But people also stick to games they are into, so 'being first out the gate' does matter when you are talking MMOs, which many people still play for the combination of challenge/growth and social aspects. Not every tortoise beats the hare.
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
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    Azherae wrote: »
    I'm sorry, but how is Project TL even a competitor to Ashes?
    It's like saying Lost Ark is, when they are kind of completely different games..

    Because 'moderates' in the MMO community have time budgets.

    The sort of person on this forum posting is probably here because they have lots of investment in exactly how Ashes does things or were convinced by the specifics. There are not THAT many of us here.

    In order for Ashes to not 'lose some players to other games' (probably a decent chunk), even players that would enjoy Ashes, Intrepid would have to do certain things better or equal to many other games. Even among forum posters we already know that.

    Crafting, Combat, Dynamism, Questing, Balance, Ease of Grouping (in terms of mechanics and reasons to group), Incentives(general positive reasons to log in even when things aren't going great), Large Scale PvP, Social Motivators, Economy, 'Endgame' content, no/limited P2W

    I can't speak for others, but Ashes is not yet topping any of these for me, and more importantly, at the moment, I don't expect it to. Until TL was fully revealed, I could at least think:

    "Ashes will be the best for Dynamism and Large Scale PvP and maybe Incentives, for the next Gen of MMOs, so I just have to hope they get the rest somewhat right."

    TL has introduced a potential challenger for all three of those in one breath. I expect Ashes to still 'win' in Incentives because of NCSoft game design style, and most people seem to expect it to blow them away in 'No P2W' due to previous experiences.

    But people also stick to games they are into, so 'being first out the gate' does matter when you are talking MMOs, which many people still play for the combination of challenge/growth and social aspects. Not every tortoise beats the hare.

    Maybe i'm not a part of some super secret Discord server that has all the gameplay and mechanics info about Project TL, but everything i can find is just the trailer and some gameplay that looks very Lost Ark-y.
    I guess there is some overlap between people who play 3rd person MMORPGs and people who play isometric ones, but i still don't see them being competition to each other.
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    AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Maybe i'm not a part of some super secret Discord server that has all the gameplay and mechanics info about Project TL, but everything i can find is just the trailer and some gameplay that looks very Lost Ark-y.
    I guess there is some overlap between people who play 3rd person MMORPGs and people who play isometric ones, but i still don't see them being competition to each other.

    Agreed, I saw the trailer and it looks like another Lost Ark. It doesn't look anything like Ashes.

    If anything, Project TL is going to suffer because they waited too long and Lost Ark came out before they did.

    (By the way, I play Lost Ark. It's not bad, but it's not even the same genre as Ashes.)
     
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    AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Azherae wrote: »
    I'm sorry, but how is Project TL even a competitor to Ashes?
    It's like saying Lost Ark is, when they are kind of completely different games..

    Because 'moderates' in the MMO community have time budgets.

    The sort of person on this forum posting is probably here because they have lots of investment in exactly how Ashes does things or were convinced by the specifics. There are not THAT many of us here.

    In order for Ashes to not 'lose some players to other games' (probably a decent chunk), even players that would enjoy Ashes, Intrepid would have to do certain things better or equal to many other games. Even among forum posters we already know that.

    Crafting, Combat, Dynamism, Questing, Balance, Ease of Grouping (in terms of mechanics and reasons to group), Incentives(general positive reasons to log in even when things aren't going great), Large Scale PvP, Social Motivators, Economy, 'Endgame' content, no/limited P2W

    I can't speak for others, but Ashes is not yet topping any of these for me, and more importantly, at the moment, I don't expect it to. Until TL was fully revealed, I could at least think:

    "Ashes will be the best for Dynamism and Large Scale PvP and maybe Incentives, for the next Gen of MMOs, so I just have to hope they get the rest somewhat right."

    TL has introduced a potential challenger for all three of those in one breath. I expect Ashes to still 'win' in Incentives because of NCSoft game design style, and most people seem to expect it to blow them away in 'No P2W' due to previous experiences.

    But people also stick to games they are into, so 'being first out the gate' does matter when you are talking MMOs, which many people still play for the combination of challenge/growth and social aspects. Not every tortoise beats the hare.

    Maybe i'm not a part of some super secret Discord server that has all the gameplay and mechanics info about Project TL, but everything i can find is just the trailer and some gameplay that looks very Lost Ark-y.
    I guess there is some overlap between people who play 3rd person MMORPGs and people who play isometric ones, but i still don't see them being competition to each other.

    That's my bad. I thought you were being dismissive and making assumptions, I didn't realize you were actually asking for the description or information on TL.

    It's definitely not easy to find the information on it, I also can't find very much. The main 'clue' you could even say, would be that it was originally developed AS Lineage 3, which would at least slightly imply that you could expect a lot of the things Lineage games provide.

    Would you say that Lineage 2 is a completely different type of game from Ashes?
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
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    AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Azherae wrote: »
    The main 'clue' you could even say, would be that it was originally developed AS Lineage 3, which would at least slightly imply that you could expect a lot of the things Lineage games provide.

    Would you say that Lineage 2 is a completely different type of game from Ashes?

    That's making an erroneous assumption. Look at this article from 11 years ago, from when it was first announced:

    https://www.engadget.com/2011-11-08-g-star-2011-ncsoft-announces-lineage-eternal.html

    "Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance (also referred to as Lineage 3) will be set in the same fantasy setting as the previous two Lineage games, but this one sports more of a Diablo-esque camera view and much more use of object-oriented gameplay."

    In other words, from the very beginning they said that it would be placed in the same setting, but the gameplay would be dramatically different. Why are you assuming they are now pivoting back to make it more like the previous Lineage games now? Especially when the trailer makes it look like it's not.
     
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    AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I think we're not aligned in terms of what we're talking about, so, for my clarity...

    Do you consider changing of the camera view in an MMO to be a meaningful change in the experience of the MMO itself? I personally consider it to be moreso an aspect of Combat and certain encounter design.

    I know many people who zoom out their camera so far that they might as well be playing an isometric camera view game.

    Basically, I'm not talking about that aspect of the game. Even if I was, then you have to question whether or not those games use that view because the majority of players likes the view better than the 'traditional third person MMO view'.

    The article linked didn't really explain much about the gameplay being dramatically different (depends on how you view Lineage gameplay I guess?) and last news I had was that they overhauled things back to be more like a more modern game, about 3 years ago, which was the entire reason for the delay.

    Analysis of the trailer seems to indicate this quite heavily to me, so I suppose it's just that the trailer looks different in your mind than it does in mine?
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
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    JustVineJustVine Member, Alpha One, Adventurer


    Yoooo this trailer looks slick af. This game is looking hype. Idk what @Atama is talking about in terms of isometric. Did we watch the same trailer lol.
    Small print leads to large risks.
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    CriminalCupcakeCriminalCupcake Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Atama wrote: »
    Another trash eastern MMORPG full of P2W. Games like this are why Ashes of Creation is needed so badly. It is needed as an alternative to the same-old garbage MMOs.

    AoC is not taking too long to release. This is like asking if a 4-Star chef is taking too long to open his restaurant because McDonald's just opened another location in the same city.

    Chefs can only get a max of 3 michelin stats.
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    TalentsTalents Member, Intrepid Pack
    The fact that it could possibly be an NFT game means Intrepid has nothing to worry about, it'll kill itself.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/ProjectTL/comments/tmhv4l/throne_liberty_could_potentially_be_a_playtoearn/

    Article written in November 2021:
    NCSoft Corp., South Korea's leading game developer, will dip its toes into the realm of the blockchain and non-fungible tokens (NFT) by releasing play-to-earn games based on NFTs next year.

    NCSoft's Chief Financial Officer Hong Won-jun said at an earnings call on Nov. 11 that the company has already completed technology reviews on the creation of its own cryptocurrency available for its NFT-based, massively multiplayer online role-playing games (MMORPG).

    "We are also considering applying the play-to-earn game model to all games developed and distributed by NCSoft," Hong added.

    The games, to be released in the first half of 2022 at its earliest, will allow users to make money by trading their game items for a cryptocurrency, or a type of NFTs.
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    With luck both will be amazing games. People don't have to be 1 game Andy's. Even when Ashes drops I will still play GW2, ESO, and WOW. Competition is good anyways otherwise developers become complacent
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    RazThemun wrote: »
    With luck both will be amazing games. People don't have to be 1 game Andy's. Even when Ashes drops I will still play GW2, ESO, and WOW. Competition is good anyways otherwise developers become complacent

    To be fair, you have to for Ashes. The amount of time required to be something it's quite high.
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    CawwCaww Member
    I only have time for one game and placed a big bet on this one so I hope it is as top tier and engaging as possible.
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