Lineage 3 vs Ashes of Creation | What now Steven?

Birthday

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plL2AZ9HdP4

DId AoC take too much time to release?

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Atama

overfitneuralnet wrote: »

Maybe i'm not a part of some super secret Discord server that has all the gameplay and mechanics info about Project TL, but everything i can find is just the trailer and some gameplay that looks very Lost Ark-y.
I guess there is some overlap between people who play 3rd person MMORPGs and people who play isometric ones, but i still don't see them being competition to each other.

Agreed, I saw the trailer and it looks like another Lost Ark. It doesn't look anything like Ashes.

If anything, Project TL is going to suffer because they waited too long and Lost Ark came out before they did.

(By the way, I play Lost Ark. It's not bad, but it's not even the same genre as Ashes.)

Azherae

overfitneuralnet wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

overfitneuralnet wrote: »

I'm sorry, but how is Project TL even a competitor to Ashes?
It's like saying Lost Ark is, when they are kind of completely different games..

Because 'moderates' in the MMO community have time budgets.

The sort of person on this forum posting is probably here because they have lots of investment in exactly how Ashes does things or were convinced by the specifics. There are not THAT many of us here.

In order for Ashes to not 'lose some players to other games' (probably a decent chunk), even players that would enjoy Ashes, Intrepid would have to do certain things better or equal to many other games. Even among forum posters we already know that.

Crafting, Combat, Dynamism, Questing, Balance, Ease of Grouping (in terms of mechanics and reasons to group), Incentives(general positive reasons to log in even when things aren't going great), Large Scale PvP, Social Motivators, Economy, 'Endgame' content, no/limited P2W

I can't speak for others, but Ashes is not yet topping any of these for me, and more importantly, at the moment, I don't expect it to. Until TL was fully revealed, I could at least think:

"Ashes will be the best for Dynamism and Large Scale PvP and maybe Incentives, for the next Gen of MMOs, so I just have to hope they get the rest somewhat right."

TL has introduced a potential challenger for all three of those in one breath. I expect Ashes to still 'win' in Incentives because of NCSoft game design style, and most people seem to expect it to blow them away in 'No P2W' due to previous experiences.

But people also stick to games they are into, so 'being first out the gate' does matter when you are talking MMOs, which many people still play for the combination of challenge/growth and social aspects. Not every tortoise beats the hare.

Maybe i'm not a part of some super secret Discord server that has all the gameplay and mechanics info about Project TL, but everything i can find is just the trailer and some gameplay that looks very Lost Ark-y.
I guess there is some overlap between people who play 3rd person MMORPGs and people who play isometric ones, but i still don't see them being competition to each other.

That's my bad. I thought you were being dismissive and making assumptions, I didn't realize you were actually asking for the description or information on TL.

It's definitely not easy to find the information on it, I also can't find very much. The main 'clue' you could even say, would be that it was originally developed AS Lineage 3, which would at least slightly imply that you could expect a lot of the things Lineage games provide.

Would you say that Lineage 2 is a completely different type of game from Ashes?

Atama

Azherae wrote: »

The main 'clue' you could even say, would be that it was originally developed AS Lineage 3, which would at least slightly imply that you could expect a lot of the things Lineage games provide.

Would you say that Lineage 2 is a completely different type of game from Ashes?

That's making an erroneous assumption. Look at this article from 11 years ago, from when it was first announced:

https://www.engadget.com/2011-11-08-g-star-2011-ncsoft-announces-lineage-eternal.html

"Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance (also referred to as Lineage 3) will be set in the same fantasy setting as the previous two Lineage games, but this one sports more of a Diablo-esque camera view and much more use of object-oriented gameplay."

In other words, from the very beginning they said that it would be placed in the same setting, but the gameplay would be dramatically different. Why are you assuming they are now pivoting back to make it more like the previous Lineage games now? Especially when the trailer makes it look like it's not.

Azherae

I think we're not aligned in terms of what we're talking about, so, for my clarity...

Do you consider changing of the camera view in an MMO to be a meaningful change in the experience of the MMO itself? I personally consider it to be moreso an aspect of Combat and certain encounter design.

I know many people who zoom out their camera so far that they might as well be playing an isometric camera view game.

Basically, I'm not talking about that aspect of the game. Even if I was, then you have to question whether or not those games use that view because the majority of players likes the view better than the 'traditional third person MMO view'.

The article linked didn't really explain much about the gameplay being dramatically different (depends on how you view Lineage gameplay I guess?) and last news I had was that they overhauled things back to be more like a more modern game, about 3 years ago, which was the entire reason for the delay.

Analysis of the trailer seems to indicate this quite heavily to me, so I suppose it's just that the trailer looks different in your mind than it does in mine?

JustVine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BlFvxY59ls

Yoooo this trailer looks slick af. This game is looking hype. Idk what @Atama is talking about in terms of isometric. Did we watch the same trailer lol.

CriminalCupcake

Atama wrote: »

Another trash eastern MMORPG full of P2W. Games like this are why Ashes of Creation is needed so badly. It is needed as an alternative to the same-old garbage MMOs.

AoC is not taking too long to release. This is like asking if a 4-Star chef is taking too long to open his restaurant because McDonald's just opened another location in the same city.

Chefs can only get a max of 3 michelin stats.

Talents

The fact that it could possibly be an NFT game means Intrepid has nothing to worry about, it'll kill itself.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ProjectTL/comments/tmhv4l/throne_liberty_could_potentially_be_a_playtoearn/

Article written in November 2021:

NCSoft Corp., South Korea's leading game developer, will dip its toes into the realm of the blockchain and non-fungible tokens (NFT) by releasing play-to-earn games based on NFTs next year.

NCSoft's Chief Financial Officer Hong Won-jun said at an earnings call on Nov. 11 that the company has already completed technology reviews on the creation of its own cryptocurrency available for its NFT-based, massively multiplayer online role-playing games (MMORPG).

"We are also considering applying the play-to-earn game model to all games developed and distributed by NCSoft," Hong added.

The games, to be released in the first half of 2022 at its earliest, will allow users to make money by trading their game items for a cryptocurrency, or a type of NFTs.

RazThemun

With luck both will be amazing games. People don't have to be 1 game Andy's. Even when Ashes drops I will still play GW2, ESO, and WOW. Competition is good anyways otherwise developers become complacent

BlackBrony

RazThemun wrote: »

With luck both will be amazing games. People don't have to be 1 game Andy's. Even when Ashes drops I will still play GW2, ESO, and WOW. Competition is good anyways otherwise developers become complacent

To be fair, you have to for Ashes. The amount of time required to be something it's quite high.

Caww

I only have time for one game and placed a big bet on this one so I hope it is as top tier and engaging as possible.

insomnia

Birthday wrote: »

Did AoC take too much time to release?

And should they have released a ½ finished mess like New World? It's impatient people like you, that is part of the reason whey the gaming industry is a joke. You would rather have a ½ finished game, full of buggs and exploits, than waiting for the game to be released.
If Ashes is still some years away from release. Then just think about the state it was in, when it should have been released.

McMackMuck

Until a AAA studio announces an MMORPG with a no-p2w business model (and I need reason to believe they won't just change their mind one day and go for the cash grab - like NW) I don't see any significant / viable threat to Ashes' market share. If that ever happens then the masses will, individually, compare which game offers the best experience to determine market share and vote with their wallets.

Merek

All flash and no soul. While it looks more aesthetically appealing than Ashes, the combat has zero depth from what I can see, I'd definitely like to be proven wrong though.

Azherae

McMackMuck wrote: »

Until a AAA studio announces an MMORPG with a no-p2w business model (and I need reason to believe they won't just change their mind one day and go for the cash grab - like NW) I don't see any significant / viable threat to Ashes' market share. If that ever happens then the masses will, individually, compare which game offers the best experience to determine market share and vote with their wallets.

Partially true but I'll give a 'competing' perspective.

There's always that 'pay for convenience' thing that people try to define. While it makes certain people design their games inconveniently, there are ways to do this that aren't just 'making life more difficult for freemium players FOR NO OTHER REASON'.

So if I have to choose between a game where I have to pay for access to something and a game where I don't, let's say 'dungeon keys', and (here's the extremely important part) every player/account can only buy a certain number of these keys per month maximum, then I don't consider this different from a Subscription game.

tl;dr it's only when a player can continually pay for the same advantage or chance, more than other players, until they are ahead using their money, that I distinguish between Subscription and Monetization models.

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