What do you like about open-world PvP?

Hi,

Because of the recent PvP discussion I got really curious and wanted to find out what people love so much about open-world PvP. I've never really understood it because from my experience you are always put into a situation where you can't/have extremely low chance to win.

Majority of my experience with open-world PvP have been while I'm 1v1ing a mob. So not only am I low hp & mp from attacking a mob and my skills are on cooldown but also I'm facing a mob and a player at the same time AND the player got the advantage of attacking first meaning his skills will be reusable again sooner.

I'm not against open-world PvP at all, I understand that people do enjoy it, I just want to understand a little more why people enjoy it so much when (to me personally) majority of open-world PvP seems like just unfair fights with almost no chance of survival for the defender.

Cheers.

*Again I'm not against the open-world PvP, just wanna make that clear.*

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Zyvan

I like the unpredictability of it. Having to stay on my toes while I'm grinding mobs or farming resources keeps things interesting to me, and it provides for another form of interaction with players.

I also enjoy being able to fight over resources that I may want that someone else currently has - whether those resources are actual items or mats, or a valued grind spot. Having the choice to do so, whether I'm the aggressor or defender, feels better to me than it all being free to everyone in a way.

On top of those reasons, the convenience of open world PvP helps too. Knowing that I can go to some area in the open world known to be a gank fest rather than looking for arranged PvP elsewhere can be a nice change of pace.

Talents

Neiuso wrote: »

I like the unpredictability of it. Having to stay on my toes while I'm grinding mobs or farming resources keeps things interesting to me, and it provides for another form of interaction with players.

I also enjoy being able to fight over resources that I may want that someone else currently has - whether those resources are actual items or mats, or a valued grind spot. Having the choice to do so, whether I'm the aggressor or defender, feels better to me than it all being free to everyone in a way.

On top of those reasons, the convenience of open world PvP helps too. Knowing that I can go to some area in the open world known to be a gank fest rather than looking for arranged PvP elsewhere can be a nice change of pace.

Pretty much this.

When your game is purely PvE with no open-world PvP, the open-world becomes boring and predictable. There's next to no danger when doing open-world activities. When you add PvP to the mix however you need to always be on guard. If you want to pull a pack of mobs then you need to make sure there's no one around you that could attack you when you pull them. When you're travelling you can't really just autorun and alt+tab out of the game window and watch a stream in-case you get attacked. It makes the game much more fun in my opinion.

Solvryn

Reskun123 wrote: »

Hi,

Because of the recent PvP discussion I got really curious and wanted to find out what people love so much about open-world PvP. I've never really understood it because from my experience you are always put into a situation where you can't/have extremely low chance to win.

Majority of my experience with open-world PvP have been while I'm 1v1ing a mob. So not only am I low hp & mp from attacking a mob and my skills are on cooldown but also I'm facing a mob and a player at the same time AND the player got the advantage of attacking first meaning his skills will be reusable again sooner.

I'm not against open-world PvP at all, I understand that people do enjoy it, I just want to understand a little more why people enjoy it so much when (to me personally) majority of open-world PvP seems like just unfair fights with almost no chance of survival for the defender.

Cheers.

*Again I'm not against the open-world PvP, just wanna make that clear.*

PvP added to the open world actually requires a bit of discipline. Always making sure you're topped off, always knowing exactly what you can and cannot handle.

The losing thing stops once you practice, dueling, 1 v X, group vs group, it all teaches you how to react in the open world.

And the greatest mark of a truly skilled player is coming back from a health deficit and being able to kill your assailants.

HumblePuffin

As the previous poster said the unpredictability about what will transpire when you go out on your quest is a big one.

Adrenaline is another one. When you’re in a owpvp scenario you always have to be prepared for someone to come out of nowhere. It forces you to manage your health mana and CDs better, so when someone rolls up and decides to flag on you, you do have a chance at survival.

You have to decide when to use your long CD spells instead of throwing them into a rotation to kill a rabbit. You can’t just chain pull mobs until you’re out of health/mana, sit drink, repeat(if this is the kinda gameplay anyone enjoys I highly recommend Warframe. Super fun game).

Games without owpvp carry no legitimate feeling of risk to me. “Oh no I over pulled and have 10 health left, let me use a CC and run out of leash range”. If you do that in a game with owpvp now you definitely run the chance to get one tapped by any passerby.

While I enjoy a PvE, no owpvp game from time to time, I find it can get rather boring doing the every day filler things around the world. While maybe the dungeons or raids are tons of fun due to legitimate risk if you mess up, out in the open world you tend to be able to turn your brain off, tunnel vision, press your buttons, and just run away if things get sticky. Sometimes I find that enjoyable too. I’m glad this game will not be that though.

CROW3

- the world is more dangerous
- Grouping has more value
- You can actually fight for resources
- PvP as content is dynamic and player driven instead of scripted and repetitive
- and c’mon pushing someone off a mountain never gets boring 🤪

George_Black

It's real player to player interaction. E ery moment of it you choose who to help and who to dislike. Nothing is optional, which means there is no fixed scenario, you gotta be ready for everything.

It brings the best both in PvE and PvP. Mmos that seperate those two quickly become boring, unless you are a person that just likes to tick off things to complete (which in those games 90% of it is very easy. All you have to do is show up at the specific location and there, you achieved nothing).

It gives tangible reason for people to seek groups both for lv up and both for domination, the later being guilds. Open world pvp makes you proud at what you csn bring into a group. Is it a good pvp playstyle that will get the group out of a tough situstion? Will you be the tank that everybody wants in their group?

In games without open world pvp all you have is ez quest after ez quest. Try playing that with 4 friends. You wont. You will all be solo far from each other. One of you will want to play on that side of the map, following that lame questline, the other is going to want to get their gear gold and the other is going to want to play on a battleground.

Open world pvp games bring friends and strangers together. You need to both pve and you need to gather/craft as well in order to be string incase of unexpected pvp.

Non open world pvp mmos seperate the population. It's not an mmo rly.

And as for the comment of unfair fight... what is better? Winning one battleground after another after another, until you get bored and then you jump in to an instanced raid?
Or the one time in a day that somebody happened to jump on you and you turned the tables around and you won?

I dont know what mmos you played, but my mmos always had some short of deterrent to killing players that didnt fight back. So the start of the fight was rarely lethal and you always had time to turn around and fight back.

Or mb you arent that good in situations where you need to be calm. Or mb you are playing the wrong class. It takes a bit of getting used to and a bit of knowing that you are ot rdy yet. But you will never be rdy if you always want arenas and battlegrounds.

Dygz

I like having the option to occasionally defend towns and cities for, maybe, an hour per day.
I abhor being forced to engage in PvP when I'm not in the mood for PvP - which is probably 7 hours out of an 8 hour play session. Winning or losing the battle is mostly irrelevant to me.

I'm a casual challenge player, so... I don't want to be forced into a hardcore encounter when I'm not in the mood for a hardcore encounter. The most recent experience I've had with forced PvP is in Bless Online.
In that game it was fine. I'd let the ganker kill me and would respawn far enough away that I wasn't corpse camped and could just continue doing whatever it was I was doing before I was ganked.

I prefer objective-based PvP rather than direct PvP combat.
Typically, even if I'm playiing some form of capture the flag PvP, I focus on capturing the most flags rather than on who has the most kills.

I also have some characters playing the Carebear Challenge of reaching max level with 0 Kills.
Even in tabletop D&D, I try to use Charisma skills to avoid combat and get as close to 0 Kills as possible.
MMORPGs focus too much on killing stuff - in general.

fabula

I agree with the OP that the attacker has all the advantages therefore you should lose most fights you do not initiate. I guess for many the enjoyment depends on which side they see themselves in that encounter.

Any game were you have to always be on guard about getting killed has failed in their anti-PK system and in my opinion should not even have it at all. I only ever felt this way in UO and the solution there was to always keep your distance and kill anyone that got too close. The annoying part was that on one hand I did not want to kill anyone minding their own business and on the other I did not want someone to take advantage of this to then attack me when they thought they had the advantage.

I hate this type of opportunistic gameplay and is why I think that you either have a harsh PK prevention system or have nothing at all, that way there are no surprises and everyone learns to maintain a distance from others.

AoC will have a harsh anti-PK system therefore the open world pvp that I will enjoy is this scenario...

Two or more guilds will gather for a world boss but there is no amicable resolution as to who gets the first shot at it. Someone eventually turns red, now EVERYONE turns on them but the guild they belong to tries to save them and this flags them, now even more join the fight.

More and more keep flagging up with more and more reds showing up, eventually people will start running away in hopes of logging out but others will chase them. You now have small skirmishes everywhere with more and more people who had no interest in the boss joining in to either kill the reds, go against any group they do not like, or just join in on the chaos before going back to whatever they were doing before.

Dygz

Who has the advantage depends on the level disparity and how low on health the person attacked has.
In Ashes, that's going to be obfuscated moreso than in previous games, so, attacking a non-combatant is fairly risky.

Marcet

Reskun123 wrote: »

Majority of my experience with open-world PvP have been while I'm 1v1ing a mob. So not only am I low hp & mp from attacking a mob and my skills are on cooldown but also I'm facing a mob and a player at the same time AND the player got the advantage of attacking first meaning his skills will be reusable again sooner.

Then you take it on some low level victim, you bully him and feel superior.

RazThemun

You are defending your turf!

This is my zoi and I don't want people in it....This is my resource, because I said so... find another spot.

It is also unpredictable... as these are not npc you are dealing with... these people you interact with have feelings and will react accordingly. Unlike an npc on a timer who always walks the same routes, rages at this distance from you..etc.

This also can cause some really good bonds. You and a guild member are getting wrecked... but x guild comes in and saves your bacon... you come to respect that Guild and possibly return the favor when you see their members in peril.

Dygz

I would not respect that guild and I would not really want some other guild trying to defend me. That scenario would not create good bonds for me. Plenty of other ways to create good bonds with other players.
Gankers tend to disrespect the feelings of other players.

What I want is not to be attacked when I'm minding my own business in my home ZOI.
And, yeah, I prefer the predicatbility of knowing I can outrun the tether of an NPC/mob if I'm not in mood for combat.

Azherae

I enjoy it because people are generally more challenging and adaptive than most mobs that can be fairly designed, especially when it comes to their teamwork and variation in their styles and builds. I like having to think about it.

That said, i don't actually like open world PvP in most games because developers seldom make any effort to actually push on or achieve the ideal experience for most players like me who are seeking a challenge that 'occurs sometimes'.

The unpredictability, the chance to have a strong interaction with another player that is emergent from roles, situation, and goals, and the capacity to change something about either the world, or future interactions, through combat with others, and of course, to improve yourself and them through the encounter, all sound like fun to me.

One of these days I might also get to play an MMO where that is what actually happens in most open world PvP.

Note, I also don't like harsh anti-PvP designs, for the same reason. It diminishes the chances that someone will want to engage in PvP in a situation where it might otherwise be natural or fun. In Absolver, there is no penalty for losing a bout with another player, and that player can instantly revive you (but Absolver is an 'open world fighting game'). In that game, you can just 'fight people you see for fun', you tap them once or twice and see if they want to fight.

I would love an MMO that had a system similar to this, that actually encouraged the INITIAL part of a PvP scenario in such a way that the players who participate would have options. The target can attempt to run and have a real chance at escaping, and the attacker can push everything into a hounding pursuit if they really really want that person dead, but also so that the target can 'accept the fight'with some concept that their opponent wasn't just 'going to win because they attacked first'. Basically, a system that encouraged players to go ahead and use their initial-hit advantage but give the defender more time to try to get something of a fairer fight.

I don't expect Ashes' Corruption System to achieve this based on descriptions so far (outside of general player honor, which shouldn't be factored) but I'll have to see it, and if it works even slightly like this in total and it somehow isn't in the best interest of the attacker to just 'keep dropping the target's health as fast as possible' I expect to enjoy it quite a lot.

RevengeRoman

@RazThemun I doubt there will be many instances of denying another Nodes citizens or Guild's members access to a Node will last long outside of open hostilities. Especially on a broad scale.

Node Governments tax revenue will be very important to the protection and growth of a Node. The way I see it, if I were a neighboring Mayor and I saw my neighbor killing my people for being on their land.

I'll not be very inclined to grant a trade agreement to you. Which in turn lowers your revenue and stumps your growth. Allowing me to eventually overtake you by sheer force of resources and money.

Not to mention if the difference were made up by raising taxes people are not likely to keep that person as mayor long.

Okeydoke

There's a larger variety of "plays" that players can make in open world pvp.

It's more organic. There are more variables and unknowns and consequences than instanced pvp.

Ever changing terrain.

SirChancelot

Marcet wrote: »

Reskun123 wrote: »

Majority of my experience with open-world PvP have been while I'm 1v1ing a mob. So not only am I low hp & mp from attacking a mob and my skills are on cooldown but also I'm facing a mob and a player at the same time AND the player got the advantage of attacking first meaning his skills will be reusable again sooner.

Then you take it on some low level victim, you bully him and feel superior.

You see
That right there is what I don't enjoy about owpvp. I don't mind fighting someone 1v1 for my resources, I rather enjoy those fights in the wild, but having someone twice my level come camp me is not fun game play. Or getting rolled by 10 players at once... How is 10v1 exciting for anyone?

Okeydoke

Everyone gets rolled 10v1 on occasion. Yeah it sucks. I mean its not the end of the world but yeah its kinda like damn that blew lol. The exciting part though is getting away from a 10v1.

George_Black

The title is "what do you like about open world pvp" yet some here decided to QQ again.

Goatrek

Fun thread. Open world pvp has always been my favourite aspects of mmos. The adrenaline when an unexpected pvp encounter comes from nowhere as you are jumped or you yourself hunt down some randoms is 10/10. And occasions when you 1v2 and 1v3 gives a great sense of accomplishment that no PvE encounter could ever match.

Maybe 5% of those owpvp encounters have felt bad (in that moment) but it always comes back to an overall positive that makes the world feel more alive and fun.

I obviously agree that 10v1 or corpse camping a level 3 dude isnt fulfilling gameplay but those should be pretty damn big outliers in any decent game.

bloodprophet

Constantly running into a nemesis as you level. Always on the look out to avoid being jumped and jumping when you see that fool. During Burning crusade days it was an alliance warlock. We battled in nearly every zone all the way to max level. Good times.
The thrill of constantly being on the look out for an unexpected encounter. Win some loose some but always being on the lookout will make better players. Having an opponent that isn't a scripted mob do some wild random stuff you didn't expect really keeps you on your toes.

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