Low level PvP

I enjoy PvP, but one concern I have is being sub max level and being unable to participate fairly and enjoyably against players within a similar level bracket. PvP has a significant impact on any online game, and ineligibility to partake could potentially drive away new players interested in having a go.

New World had open world PvP, but nobody below 60 would flag for fights because higher level players would be in lower level zones for materials. Additionally, scaling was removed so that lower levels had no chance of fighting back. As there was no bracketed instanced combat for lower levels, PvP was pretty much non existent after 60s started to emerge.

Will there be buffers to who can attack who? I.e 60 can only attack a max level of 50 ( 10 level difference) this system is in OSRS wilderness

Will scaling exist in PvP? Exists in some games already

Will instanced battlegrounds be offered as an alternative for players in specific brackets?

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Comments

Marcet

I hope we get real open pvp without those restrictions.

And the solution to the problem is... level up.

Burnzey

So you'd effectively want to kill off any low level PvP because..?

Grinding mobs and quest is tiresome. You need to break it up with the dynamic engagement systems that online games have to offer.

JoeBadmemes

Most of your questions can be answered by the Corruption system located on the wiki (see: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Corruption#Player_flagging).

If you start attacking someone, you get flagged. If they don't attack you, they're still considered a non combatant and you will gain corruption points depending on the level disparity and how many non combatants you killed. While corrupted you get greater death penalties and you hit less harder depending on your level of corruption. You also now have people trying to hunt you down on the map.

However, if you both start smacking each other its fair game.

Based on my current knowledge there won't be scaling in PvP.

unknown

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Burnzey

Hailee wrote: »

Lower levels can contribute to pvp through the open world through group play in caravan attack and defence, and also in world boss attempts and dungeons when defending from attackers or attacking those already participating.

Will they be able to stand their ground 1v1 against higher level players? No. And they shouldn't be able to.

Contribute? Probably roll over and die without any real impact on the outcome whatsoever.

Lower levels need their own space to smack around each other like instanced content or they need to have their stats scaled up. Otherwise it's just a waste of time being there.

I think that levels in an MMO is primarily a PvE focused method of determining the difficulty of an encounter. PvP is more about ladders and leaderboards through a tallied system of wins and defeats.

Of course, I think there should be a reward and perk progress system for players who PvP to improve and develop their character, but if in a 1 vs 1 a level 60 is getting dunked on by a level 20 through scaling, fighting another 60 wouldn't change that outcome anyway lol

George_Black

Before you give suggestions ask yourself, "have I ever played a non instanced open world pvp mmorpg, besides NW that came out yesterday?".

If the answer is no then say "how was open world pvp in older mmos for low lv players?".

And the answer would be "unlike NW that came out yesterday, in a good open world pvp mmo, high lv players had no reason to be around low lv players, killing them."

akabear

Considering that there is such an insignificant amount of time to get to the max level, it is likely to be inconsequential.

And if guilds and communities work as they should, then the community should step in to provide justice, not game mechanics.

Mind you, the community stepping in to seek harsh penalties for pvp probably has inhibited the corruption system to provide good. Too many players have focused on the bad side of it, and sought to have a harsh system, to discourage all together, rather than see it as both a penalty and a means to instill justice.

Marcet

Burnzey wrote: »

Contribute? Probably roll over and die without any real impact on the outcome whatsoever.

Lower levels need their own space to smack around each other like instanced content or they need to have their stats scaled up. Otherwise it's just a waste of time being there.

I think that levels in an MMO is primarily a PvE focused method of determining the difficulty of an encounter. PvP is more about ladders and leaderboards through a tallied system of wins and defeats.

Of course, I think there should be a reward and perk progress system for players who PvP to improve and develop their character, but if in a 1 vs 1 a level 60 is getting dunked on by a level 20 through scaling, fighting another 60 wouldn't change that outcome anyway lol

This is an RPG, wich means if I have a heavier armor, a better weapon and more power aquired from levels I'm gonna have an advantadge, not only in PvE.

Your character improving makes you more efficient at killing players, from level 4 you can abuse lvl 1's and so on... you don't need to be lvl60 to start PvPing, even at that level there will always be a bigger shark.

And this might sound crazy, but you have to trust players.

Burnzey

George_Black wrote: »

Before you give suggestions ask yourself, "have I ever played a non instanced open world pvp mmorpg besides NW that came out yesterday?".

If the answer is no then say "how was open world pvp in older mmos for low lv players?".

And the answer would be "unlike NW that came out yesterday, in a good open world pvp mmo, high lv players had no reason to be around low lv players, killing them."

Because the game would be focused around zones being tied to specific level groups which would not need levels outside that bracket to attend. The only reason there would be a higher level there would be to farm materials to level their profession or the odd person helping their friend MAYBE, but the game would have in built indirect mechanics to prevent different level groups from interacting.

This game being an open world nodal progression system is why I've chosen New World as a relevant, and recent reference for this topic. You will have higher level players mixing and interacting with lower levels that it would be impossible for the two not to mix due to resource requirements to develop the cities.

akabear wrote: »

Considering that there is such an insignificant amount of time to get to the max level, it is likely to be inconsequential.

And if guilds and communities work as they should, then the community should step in to provide justice, not game mechanics.

Mind you, the community stepping in to seek harsh penalties for pvp probably has inhibited the corruption system to provide good. Too many players have focused on the bad side of it, and sought to have a harsh system, to discourage all together, rather than see it as both a penalty and a means to instill justice.

On your first point, there is no determinant factor currently that points to how long it would take to reach max level. There are a multitude of factors that could slow or inhibit player level growth whether they are direct through mechanics or indirect through other players and in game events.

You'd hope that guilds and communities may come to the rescue, but if they're too busy farming for their level specific content, why would they out that aside to help out somebody levelling? Easiest thing to say is "log out for 15 minutes they'll go away"

I'm not sure how this corruption (bounty) system will play out when it's tied to potential item loss. But if Low level players are "assisting" with capture mechanics then punishing players with the corruption system would be detrimental to overall design.

George_Black

You dont know what you are talking about. Non-issue. It's just in your head.

Burnzey

Do you actively PvP in most games you play?

Flagging yourself, instanced combat areas, world PvP etc

No? I do.

George_Black

I played L2 for a decade you clown.

Burnzey

George_Black wrote: »

I played L2 for a decade you clown.

You've played one MMO for your PvP content that's published and developed by the most p2w companies and you want a say on balance?

Jog on m8

ClintHardwood

Albion avoided this problem by making your level equivalent to the gear you're wearing. So, even if you see a bunch of shitters in low level gear, you usually just avoid them to save time. There's no point in killing noobs for miniscule profit.

George_Black

Burnzey wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

I played L2 for a decade you clown.

You've played one MMO for your PvP content that's published and developed by the most p2w companies and you want a say on balance?

Jog on m8

Again, you dont know what you are talking about.

Burnzey

Dude NcSoft is notorious for their pay to win models in their games. Congrats, you got a fat wallet you can dunk on anyone.

JamesSunderland

Q: Will there be buffers to who can attack who? I.e 60 can only attack a max level of 50 ( 10 level difference) this system is in OSRS wilderness

A: Currently no, what will deter most high level players from PK lower level ones will be the threat of receiveing tons of corruption for the kill compared to some one of the same level, as for pvp, if you get caught flagged by a high level player, you will get blasted.

Q: Will scaling exist in PvP? Exists in some games already

A: Probably not, due to the corruption system aspect stated above.

Q: Will instanced battlegrounds be offered as an alternative for players in specific brackets?

A: There will be instanced pvp Arenas, as if they will have levels brackets separatation or if it they will automatically match you with similar level players is currently unknown, but i would bet on the second.

George_Black

Burnzey wrote: »

Dude NcSoft is notorious for their pay to win models in their games. Congrats, you got a fat wallet you can dunk on anyone.

Again, you dont know what you are talking about. You just went "L2? What is this? Lemme google. L2 from NcSoft. P2w".
You are clue less, and the simple proof is that you started this topic with NW and it's subpar design.

Shut up for a bit and listen to what I am telling you. Good open world mmos dont get low lv players and high lv players into a conflict of interest.
If a high lv player is near you and you flag, you will get killed.
That's a big IF. Get that into your head.

akabear

With George on this one.. Played L2 for about 8 years from open beta.
There was no pay to win of any kind when it started.

Hard risks to pk, hard xp loss for pvp > but that made it all the more calculated to participate, rewarding to win and a hard reminding grind to cover the losses.

Frequent wars over territory, xp areas, castle ownership and fights to be the clan to the one to take a raid boss down

Every other game since has not really had that same gravity.. Quite addictive

unknown

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