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Tower of Creation

DeliaszDeliasz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited June 20 in General Discussion
Tower of Creation

The new better Tower of Insolence from lineage 2 concept/idea.


I would like to share my few thoughts with you about mid/end game options in Ashes of Creation.

Some of you know how close to Steven’s heart was Lineage 2.

Now, prepare yourself for some old news. Beside a few aspects of the game (main Raid) nothing was instanced - don’t count Catacombs.

I will be talking mainly about the C3 version where I’ve spent most of my time.

Tower of Insolence was a very clever open world dungeon with access to one of the main bosses in the game. Baium.
Grind related information: Tower of Ashes would focus on user experience with mechanics. It should not be done for grind purpose.

I’m not going to talk about the topography of the Tower. You just need to know few this about ut:

Each floor will increase difficulty and every few floors you will be introduced to a new set of mobs. Fast travel between floors was restricted and depended on the version of the game (live/private).

I would like to see something similar in Ashes.
There is not that much you have to do with the initial concept - it was good enough.

Few rules : Open PVP and no Safe Zones, No fast travel/teleport, No Summoning

Update 20th June -
Around the World of Verra you could find only(only) quest related fast travel teleport to The Tower's floor. Quest related to the lore. It would introduce player to the Tower concept not revealing where it's located on the map.
More like goal/mystery orientated thing.


- The Tower of Creation would have no limit on access
- Each floor would represent lore of the game (environment/mobs
- Each floor would have its own restriction/penalty on players (movement/regen/some forms of silence etc.)
- Each floor should pose appropriate level of difficulty to the lore theme and game progression
- By the end of each staircase or teleportation door we would be presented with NPC telling us a lore story and possible
quests
- Each floor could spawn some unique boss related to it
- Size of each floor is an open discussion (related to the lore)
- Floors can either go upwards or downwards (sideways?)
- Last floor would grant you option to teleport down (ToC teleportation)
- Last floor would present you with the option to fight Boss/Raid boss or to the same as it was with Baium.


Tower mechanics:


- Mobs would drop some shards
- Shards can be traded with floor NPCS for tokens
- You would need all the tokens for the last floor NPC to change it to the crystal
- Crystal allows you to teleport to ground floor (no safe zone)
- If you die from any source you will spawn as normal;
- You can be resurrected
- Standard corruption system applies to the whole Tower
- Every odd or even floor you can use Tower NPC to repair your gear (cost shards)
- There is a certain probability of spawn for an NPC which can clear your corruption for shards (No safe zone)
- Materials,recipes drops related to the floor and lore
- Gathering related to the floor and lore
- Weather system associated with floor and it’s lore
- Traps and traps with temporary weather system
- Some archetypes can pass restriction and access other floors (stealth), but higher level of penalty applied
- And many more…



There are many things which can be done here. Underground tower like in Toriko Manga, Tunnel maze etc.

Thanks for your time.



PS.

Also, there would be an enormous projection of the Phoenix above the Tower once players reach the top floor and challenge the Boss!
Time goes fast. Time is a speed freak :D

Comments

  • NiKrNiKr Member
    Definitely hope they have some towers. Cruma and ToI were my favorite places to grind.
  • NorkoreNorkore Member
    Sounds interesting, the more open world content the better. Open world activities make the game feel more alive and immersive.
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I certainly loved TOI.

    However, I don't think that there should be any special way to clear corruption in your tower. You should suffer the same penalties for going corrupt regardless of where in the game you choose to go red, no freebies.
  • DeliaszDeliasz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    tautau wrote: »
    I certainly loved TOI.

    However, I don't think that there should be any special way to clear corruption in your tower. You should suffer the same penalties for going corrupt regardless of where in the game you choose to go red, no freebies.

    It's not a freebie. In my concept you have type of currency. Shards are needed to have a way to come back safely to the ground floor. If you spend them on the accumulated corruption clean then you are missing quiet a number for other Tower mechanics.
    Time goes fast. Time is a speed freak :D
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Upvote! I would love to see something like this in AoC
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  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited June 14
    Yes. Or Tower of Corruption.
  • Tower of Insolence was such an amazing open world dungeon, i have so many memories of fighting for grinding spots, the bosses present there and the huge fights over Baium.
    One of the things i always liked was from how far you could see the Tower and its big 14th floors in the world.

    Definitely would like to see a huge tower like TOI in Ashes.
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    Aren't we all sinners?
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Regarding corruption again: If these shards are falling routinely from mobs and you use these shards to wash corruption, then that does seem to me to be a freebie. You get these shards for doing what you were doing anyway so washing corruption is almost automatic, you have stacks of these things so why not kill some noobs, run to the tower and wash, and you got away with dodging the corruption system. Right? The only cost is you use the shards to wash rather than using them for something else.

    So TOI (#2) is a great idea, but corruption should work there just like everywhere else. I don't see any reason why it should work differently there than it does anywhere else.
  • DeliaszDeliasz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    tautau wrote: »
    Regarding corruption again: If these shards are falling routinely from mobs and you use these shards to wash corruption, then that does seem to me to be a freebie. You get these shards for doing what you were doing anyway so washing corruption is almost automatic, you have stacks of these things so why not kill some noobs, run to the tower and wash, and you got away with dodging the corruption system. Right? The only cost is you use the shards to wash rather than using them for something else.

    So TOI (#2) is a great idea, but corruption should work there just like everywhere else. I don't see any reason why it should work differently there than it does anywhere else.

    Now I get your point.


    I don't want to reinvent whole corruption system. Just for this one world wide open dungeon.
    For the Tower only the corruption system would be changed so you can't get ride of it just by killing mobs. Only shards and NPC would let you do it.

    Why that kind of idea?

    It would make the whole area more unpredictable with players behavior.

    If you die on the 10th floor for example being corrupted:
    - no chance to resurrect by other players
    - you drop shards and high possibility to drop item
    - you can add some mechanics

    For any player who can not be resurrected on the spot they would have to start from the bottom.

    Maybe there is no reason to change it at all like you said.
    Time goes fast. Time is a speed freak :D
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I don't really understand the point of such a Tower lore-wise for Ashes.
    I suppose it could be some form of an Arena for a Military Metro?
  • FerrymanFerryman Member
    tautau wrote: »
    However, I don't think that there should be any special way to clear corruption in your tower. You should suffer the same penalties for going corrupt regardless of where in the game you choose to go red, no freebies.

    I like open world dungeons as well. I have not played Lineage 2 and therefore, I am not familiar with this Tower concept. However, I have played Albion Online and I have enjoyed open world dungeons in that game. I have understood that both open world and instanced dungeons will be a thing in Ashes.

    However, I agree with tautau that there is no reasons to change corrupt rules in specific areas like open world dungeons.
    Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
  • NiKrNiKr Member
    Ferryman wrote: »
    I like open world dungeons as well. I have not played Lineage 2 and therefore, I am not familiar with this Tower concept. However, I have played Albion Online and I have enjoyed open world dungeons in that game. I have understood that both open world and instanced dungeons will be a thing in Ashes.
    Here's a runthrough of the Tower (you can mute the audio).

    And as for instanced dungeons. They won't be repeatable and will mainly concentrate on the story side of the game, so I wouldn't really equate the two.
  • DeliaszDeliasz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Dygz wrote: »
    I don't really understand the point of such a Tower lore-wise for Ashes.
    I suppose it could be some form of an Arena for a Military Metro?

    The Tower itself would be too boring? or just copy-paste idea. The mechanic would be a key for this type of open-world dungeon. This is just something I came up with.
    There is much more to the concept of that Tower in my head.



    Time goes fast. Time is a speed freak :D
  • DeliaszDeliasz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    tautau wrote: »

    I like open world dungeons as well. I have not played Lineage 2 and therefore, I am not familiar with this Tower concept. However, I have played Albion Online and I have enjoyed open world dungeons in that game. I have understood that both open world and instanced dungeons will be a thing in Ashes.

    However, I agree with tautau that there is no reasons to change corrupt rules in specific areas like open world dungeons.

    There are no reasons to change it. It all depends on the mechanics and purpose of that type of open-world dungeon.

    This is just an idea of how devs could utilize something which was close to the Lineage 2 players.
    I would focus on other mechanics and not only on the corruption system.

    Time goes fast. Time is a speed freak :D
  • FerrymanFerryman Member
    Yeah I watched the video. We do not actually need to think would a tower as a theme suit well for Ashes because it can go underground as well what ever makes sense. I would also like to see that some open world dungeons has several layers and the PvE content gets progressively harder further you go. There can be e.g. resources, chest and bosses to fight for and typically PvE hotspots will be PvP hotspots as well if open world PvP is utilized in the game.
    Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
  • NiKrNiKr Member
    Ferryman wrote: »
    Yeah I watched the video. We do not actually need to think would a tower as a theme suit well for Ashes because it can go underground as well what ever makes sense. I would also like to see that some open world dungeons has several layers and the PvE content gets progressively harder further you go. There can be e.g. resources, chest and bosses to fight for and typically PvE hotspots will be PvP hotspots as well if open world PvP is utilized in the game.
    Yep, that's the exact description of what Tower of Insolence represented.
  • BirthdayBirthday Member
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Nodes#Divine_node_benefits

    This tower idea sounds like the divine node benefit.
    We don't know much about it though.
    I'd like to see it being infiltratable. Currently it sounds like a PvE paradise and I'd like it to pretty much stay that way but with the exception that enemy node players can sneak into it or fight their way through inside. This perhaps could bring another layer of node siege - attacks from below. Instead of all your forces focusing on sieging the walls you send a small party to infiltrate the catacombs and find the metropolitan exit so that they can attack from inside the walls while you are sieging on the outside. This would cause panic and confusion temporarily aiding your siege or perhaps it might even be the deciding move.
    Of course this type of attack is very risky, your party might wipe to some PvE boss inside the catacombs while trying to navigate through them or meet players inside and get wiped in PvP. All and all it sounds fun and adds to the siege element.

    This tower idea has some things inherent to it which I perceive as flaws. It might make PvP less dynamic and open-world. Right now the idea is that almost every dungeon is open to open world PvP. This makes it so open world PvP constantly moves not only from Node to Node(territory) but also to dungeon to dungeon because dungeons are going to be spawning dynamically depending on player actions. Placing a big tower somewhere with tons of PvE and PvP will make it into a very comfortable zone for both things to be done and as we know players seek easy thrills and enjoyment so they'll most likely be choosing that location most of the time. Thus the tower will suck up all the players and PvP in there and leave the rest of the world barren.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited June 16
    Didnt happen in L2. Why would it happen here? Dont get why would you say that it would suck all the pvp. Also I dont get what the divine node has to do with this.
    L2 also had catacombs that spanned the entire world. This isnt related to AoC divine node or underrealm either.
    I dont get your concerns.
  • FerrymanFerryman Member
    There is potentially this risk that most of the action will center on certain locations, however, this only happens if these hotspots are superior when compared to the rest of the world. This can be avoided so that these special locations offers something good but not working as a "gold mine" for everything.
    Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
  • DeliaszDeliasz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited June 16
    The world of Verra is vast.

    I like how you comment and argue about it. My idea about this tower was written fast and open for a discussion.

    I feel your worries about the Tower being a central hub for all activities. It would not be in the end because there would be too many players to not feel overcrowded.

    To add small change to the Tower. The tower's Boss would spawn only every so often. Week or more.

    Also, there is always a way to tweak mechanics of it to make it more balanced.

    Tower would be normally PvX open-world dungeon. No changes there.

    Tower would be located somewhere between different nodes. Type of landmark, which you can see from the distance.

    In Lineage 2 the ToI has never been the only place for players to play. It was only hot place during Baium raid.

    Think about it more as a place to meet other players more intensively.


    Time goes fast. Time is a speed freak :D
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Given the size of Verra and the lack of fast travel, I agree that there is not a danger that it would dominate player activity.
  • RamirezRamirez Member
    I really love that tower idea
  • mcnastymcnasty Member
    Never played L2.

    Love the idea. Sounds awesome.

    Upvote.
  • I do enjoy a bit of procedurally generated tier-based solo/duo "dungeon" esque PvE gameplay. However, lore-wise, I always hated the "tower" scheme. It almost never makes any sense, because the number of levels there are to churn through would logically produce a "tower" much taller than anything you'd realistically end up with the in game world. Large suspension of disbelief required. I'm more in favor of a dungeon that goes deeper and deeper underground.

    This way you can play with the environment much more easily and get some nice visual variation between major difficulty shifts. Wet, damp cave systems with moss and underground ponds/rivers. Inhabited cave systems that have been carved out and accessorized, or even fully furnished/fleshed out as living spaces. Deeper, you might get to some crazy gem studded cave walls full of crystals and stuff, or some systems full of lava flows and such. I just feel that an "endlessly" deep series of cave systems is more lore-friendly and offers a more realistic variety of visual dressing than an "endlessly" tall tower.
  • DeliaszDeliasz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited June 20
    Sengarden wrote: »
    I do enjoy a bit of procedurally generated tier-based solo/duo "dungeon" esque PvE gameplay. However, lore-wise, I always hated the "tower" scheme. It almost never makes any sense, because the number of levels there are to churn through would logically produce a "tower" much taller than anything you'd realistically end up with the in game world. Large suspension of disbelief required. I'm more in favor of a dungeon that goes deeper and deeper underground.

    This way you can play with the environment much more easily and get some nice visual variation between major difficulty shifts. Wet, damp cave systems with moss and underground ponds/rivers. Inhabited cave systems that have been carved out and accessorized, or even fully furnished/fleshed out as living spaces. Deeper, you might get to some crazy gem studded cave walls full of crystals and stuff, or some systems full of lava flows and such. I just feel that an "endlessly" deep series of cave systems is more lore-friendly and offers a more realistic variety of visual dressing than an "endlessly" tall tower.

    I see your point of view.
    I would just add two or three things :
    • outer appearance doesn't need to reflect inside (how many floors and their size)
    • when you see house from outside you don't know how inside looks like
    • open world dungeon can't be PG (procedural generated)


    Also, I will update main Thread with a new idea.
    Time goes fast. Time is a speed freak :D
  • VaknarVaknar Moderator, Member, Staff
    This is a really neat idea! I personally didn't play Lineage 2. I also haven't played many truly OWPvP MMORPGs. With that said, I haven't experienced anything quite like this. It sounds like a ton of fun to play through.

    It also reminds me a bit of the plot of Sword Art Online for those fellow weebs who might be familiar with it, lol.

    I'd love to hear more interesting ideas added to this one! Show me what you've got 😉
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  • DeliaszDeliasz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Hello Vaknar,

    It's fun either to play this kind of open-world dungeon.
    In relation to SaO. I do personally think that they stole the idea for L2 ;)

    SaO tower is a neat idea but again it's more like never ending grind fest. It's more like Diablo rifts.

    Each time someone post something against my concept I find other ideas to counter it or just to add.

    Let's wait for more.
    Time goes fast. Time is a speed freak :D
  • Deliasz wrote: »
    I see your point of view.
    I would just add two or three things :
    • outer appearance doesn't need to reflect inside (how many floors and their size)
    • when you see house from outside you don't know how inside looks like
    • open world dungeon can't be PG (procedural generated)

    This is true! Obviously it's an MMO and some suspension of disbelief is required. But I think it does feel very satisfying in-game when what you see from the outside feels just as real on the inside, and vice versa. I've heard some people mention before that it would be fun to do a little delving into the other realms via a future expansion. Perhaps this strange space-warping concept could be applied more easily in another realm? Some fortress of an essence-corrupted anti-hero demi-god that has seemingly endless levels to clamber up and fight through before you reach the peak. (Oh god wait no this is becoming Torghast from Shadowlands... Uhhh.... No, it's okay, it could never be that bad. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine...)

    In all seriousness though, if we were to see a piece of content like that, it would likely be saved for a future expansion, and a theme like that could be a good opportunity for it, since there would likely be a whole new host of beasts and creatures in these other realms, so grinding through them wouldn't be as mindless as mowing down endless levels of the same predictable mobs we'd already be fighting in Vera.

    However, I could also see this being a cool expansion for some sort of mountain-dwelling big bad. Maybe at the base of a sprawling cave system there lives the equivalent of a Balrog or something? Lots of opportunities to be had!
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