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Class Discussion for ShadowLORD

NoctGamingHDNoctGamingHD Member
edited June 2022 in General Discussion
SO this is a post for Class discussion and what you like to see and what you think it will be.

1. So as we know Shadowlord is a Base Rogue Class with a Summoner secondary class, as Such we can figure out a few thing for this said class, do to rogue it will have a very dual wielding weapon with stealth and Speed base class

2. Due to it summoner secondary which allow for control or Summoning of a creature to be use in battle as a dps tank or healer.

3. so with these said Classes Now been described we can some what get a view as to what the class Shadowlord will be based off, So here my question to you all what would you like to see with this class?

For me i hope to see a Class that somewhat base off like Sun Jin-woo form Solo leveling Manhwa, maybe not that overpowered but at least to a degree; Something like you can up to a Set certain amount of Summons in your repertoire that can be summon at a time, witht he ability to level up with you or have to level personally ( lol somewhat like pokemon lol) as well as being able to fight like a rogue, giving you the ability to fight multiple target at one time and as they die they use up mana? or as long as they are out they use mana but a low amount so not to overly hold the class back so that your not held back by mana threshold issues. honestly this is one of the classes that i see great potenial for and hope that the developers don't mess up, So what do you think everyone add on what you like to see for this class or what you think it will be i love to hear it all?!?! The Night is Full of Wonders!
The Night is Full of Wonder's!
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Comments

  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    I'm used to rogues being dagger-wielding backstabbing bois who can detarget an enemy. I'd love for the summoner's augments to let Rogues do the same things easier. Maybe one ability summons their clone that triggers Rogue's backstabbing passives by hitting the victim in the back for some period of time, even if the rogue is not at the target's back. Some augments could create copies around the target and use foe abilities to try and confuse the victim. Some augments could continuously detarget the victim (remove their tab targetting), though this kind of power would have to be limited to just a few secs and to some super high lvl ability on a long cd.

    But outside of what I want it to be, I'd first like to see what it even is right now.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    Yeah - I was thinking similar thoughts, @NiKr summon a distracting add to taunt attention and turn a mob to backstab. Or do a few other cc’s - kind of like a melee wow demo lock with the succubus. I also like the idea of summoning extra-planar creatures to do rogue-ish things (asking myself ‘What would Jarlaxle do?’). Or summoning some sort of gear (like a rope and hook) or a weapon?

    This could get very interesting very quickly. 🙀
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • Night WingsNight Wings Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I feel like Shadow lord is just going to be like world of Warcraft mage spell "Mirror Image" or better yet the WW monk spell "Storm,Earth,and fire". I think it be cool if it were like that I also think it would be neat to have it be able to distract a mob/player with a taunt or something like the other's above mentioned. Another cool thing would be able to send it to a certain location while you're in stealth and its not basically distracting a player.

    Example: I'm stealth in a bush and I send my summon to walk on a road unstealth

  • NoctGamingHDNoctGamingHD Member
    edited June 2022
    @Nightwings @CROW3 @NiKr Hate to say this to you guys but what your asking for is pretty mucha Nightspell which is a Rogue meets Mage class, AKA a Ninja. or at least to me. Got to remember a Shadow lord is a rogue meets Summoner, As stated a Summoner is someone who can summon a creature that can Attack like a DPS defend liek a tank or heal liek a Healer, SO what am getting at is that your removing the core aspect of a summoner for only a ability that distracts which to me sound like a Nightspell class, which a Nightspell sound like a Nightblade class form Elder scrolls lore which is a Ninja in all but name. Now i did say this is put you r opinion but i just wanted to help you guys understand what your asking for. or like a Nightcaster which is Mage meet rogue.
    The Night is Full of Wonder's!
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    NoctGamingHD wrote: »
    Hate to say this to you guys but what your asking for is pretty mucha Nightspell which is a Rogue meets Mage class, AKA a Ninja. or at least to me. Got to remember a Shadow lord is a rogue meets Summoner, As stated a Summoner is someone who can summon a creature that can Attack like a DPS defend liek a tank or heal liek a Healer, SO what am getting at is that your removing the core aspect of a summoner for only a ability that distracts which to me sound like a Nightspell class, which a Nightspell sound like a Nightblade class form Elder scrolls lore which is a Ninja in all but name. Now i did say this is put you r opinion but i just wanted to help you guys understand what your asking for.
    I mean, my suggestion is literally summoning things that are doing the Roguey tricks additionally to your own existence. That's as summoney as it gets.

    Right now what we know about Mage augments is the TP school and Elements, which means that Rogue/Mage will probably have some "blink behind you back"-type shit and/or firey dagger throws or icey smoke bombs. Or some liquid stealth runs that make people who you run by wet, which boosts electro dmg or makes it easier to freeze them.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    edited June 2022
    That’s one way of looking at it. Another would be that we’re brainstorming on a thread you created to discuss different ideas.

    One possible take on the rogue/summoner is they summon a dps/tank/healer. But just because the primary summoner may work this way, doesn’t mean the summoner augments for rogue will work the same way. So, I don’t see the point in defining the possibilities so narrowly when we literally haven’t seen either a summoner or rogue in Ashes.
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • NoctGamingHDNoctGamingHD Member
    @CROW3 i know i said that to me that what it sounded like lol, not attacking your point of view am just trying to help open your PoV, But if you feel that a Shadowlord should be a class that has distraction abilites so be i feel like that closer to a ninja more then anything else to be honest but yah each thier own.
    The Night is Full of Wonder's!
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    NoctGamingHD wrote: »
    i know i said that to me that what it sounded like lol, not attacking your point of view am just trying to help open your PoV, But if you feel that a Shadowlord should be a class that has distraction abilites so be i feel like that closer to a ninja more then anything else to be honest but yah each thier own.
    The Rogue might/will have those abilities. The augments would only put additional effects on them or maybe change their function slightly (doubt even that).
  • NoctGamingHDNoctGamingHD Member
    @NiKr true honestly Nightspell aka Rogue/mage sound more ninja to me then anything else lol, like ok mage has teleport subclass so fusing that with a rogue would give you more of a ninja capabilites for backstabing and running away before getting caught you know, where if you add element to it you can create more range combat after you teleport away or some such to cause a DoT effect form the fire element or CC form the earth elements. you know what i mean?
    The Night is Full of Wonder's!
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    I didn’t take it as an attack 🤗, just seeking clarity.

    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • NoctGamingHDNoctGamingHD Member
    @CROW3 My apologizes then lol
    The Night is Full of Wonder's!
  • Night WingsNight Wings Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited June 2022
    NiKr wrote: »
    NoctGamingHD wrote: »
    Hate to say this to you guys but what your asking for is pretty mucha Nightspell which is a Rogue meets Mage class, AKA a Ninja. or at least to me. Got to remember a Shadow lord is a rogue meets Summoner, As stated a Summoner is someone who can summon a creature that can Attack like a DPS defend liek a tank or heal liek a Healer, SO what am getting at is that your removing the core aspect of a summoner for only a ability that distracts which to me sound like a Nightspell class, which a Nightspell sound like a Nightblade class form Elder scrolls lore which is a Ninja in all but name. Now i did say this is put you r opinion but i just wanted to help you guys understand what your asking for.
    I mean, my suggestion is literally summoning things that are doing the Roguey tricks additionally to your own existence. That's as summoney as it gets.

    Right now what we know about Mage augments is the TP school and Elements, which means that Rogue/Mage will probably have some "blink behind you back"-type shit and/or firey dagger throws or icey smoke bombs. Or some liquid stealth runs that make people who you run by wet, which boosts electro dmg or makes it easier to freeze them.

    That sounds cool as hell not even going to lie ^

    Nightspell to me is a rogue with enchanted weapons that procs with shock, flame, ice effects that debuffs the opponent kinda like a rogue with poison, but instead elements?
    Shadowlord is what I posted earlier ill show a video to hopefully clear little more about what I'm thinking

    (in my opinion of course)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5yFfZFyU3U
  • NoctGamingHDNoctGamingHD Member
    NiKr wrote: »
    NoctGamingHD wrote: »
    i know i said that to me that what it sounded like lol, not attacking your point of view am just trying to help open your PoV, But if you feel that a Shadowlord should be a class that has distraction abilites so be i feel like that closer to a ninja more then anything else to be honest but yah each thier own.
    The Rogue might/will have those abilities. The augments would only put additional effects on them or maybe change their function slightly (doubt even that).

    See when i think rogue i think typical Criminal rogue form high fantasy game Pickpocketing with basic sleath no mana just a stamina gauge of course considering that there only mana in this game you get the picture, i just feel that a rogue base class is just that a base that you add on to help improve what it able to do later in the game with the sub class choice? Sort of like Dragon Dogma Mage base later grab Archer/ranger to create a Magick archer class? which if you lvl Mage up to a certain level you have extra mana damage then bring in Archer to give you a more diverse playstyle
    The Night is Full of Wonder's!
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    edited June 2022
    Night Wings wrote: »
    Nightspell to me is a rogue with enchanted weapons that procs with shock, flame, ice effects that debuffs the opponent kinda like a rogue with poison, but instead elements?
    Night Wings wrote: »
    Shadowlord is what I posted earlier ill show a video to hopefully clear little more about what I'm thinking

    (in my opinion of course)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5yFfZFyU3U
    Yep, both of those things are very close to what I'm imagining it's gonna be too. I hope it's some super cool interactions like I described, but I'm trying to reign in my imaginative mind, cause I know that I'll only get disappointed if I start thinking up all these cool and strong designs yet they'll never be in the game :'(
  • NoctGamingHDNoctGamingHD Member
    Night Wings wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    NoctGamingHD wrote: »
    Hate to say this to you guys but what your asking for is pretty mucha Nightspell which is a Rogue meets Mage class, AKA a Ninja. or at least to me. Got to remember a Shadow lord is a rogue meets Summoner, As stated a Summoner is someone who can summon a creature that can Attack like a DPS defend liek a tank or heal liek a Healer, SO what am getting at is that your removing the core aspect of a summoner for only a ability that distracts which to me sound like a Nightspell class, which a Nightspell sound like a Nightblade class form Elder scrolls lore which is a Ninja in all but name. Now i did say this is put you r opinion but i just wanted to help you guys understand what your asking for.
    I mean, my suggestion is literally summoning things that are doing the Roguey tricks additionally to your own existence. That's as summoney as it gets.

    Right now what we know about Mage augments is the TP school and Elements, which means that Rogue/Mage will probably have some "blink behind you back"-type shit and/or firey dagger throws or icey smoke bombs. Or some liquid stealth runs that make people who you run by wet, which boosts electro dmg or makes it easier to freeze them.

    That sounds cool as hell not even going to lie ^

    Nightspell to me is a rogue with enchanted weapons that procs with shock, flame, ice effects that debuffs the opponent kinda like a rogue with poison, but instead elements?
    Shadowlord is what I posted earlier ill show a video to hopefully clear little more about what I'm thinking

    (in my opinion of course)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5yFfZFyU3U

    See actually that my same thought except more of a Shadowy summon that has a bit more diverse AI command to be closer to WoW Hunter Pets or Frost mage water elemental where we can summon multiplies with a different capabilites like say one pet has more focus towards Tanking and can aggro and hold a line while we come in with rogue abilites to attack while it up or maybe in a raid make up we use a DPS Summon so we have double dps functions, Or a dungeon group that needs a little extra healing so we summon a Healer base summon?
    The Night is Full of Wonder's!
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    From everything they've disclosed about the augment system so far, it's all been - "you do not get new abilities from your augments". You archetype gives you all the abilities you'll ever use and the augments only provide changes/additions to those abilities. So it's not like you'll just get a summon if you get a summoner secondary. You'll still only have your Rogue abilities which will then be somehow changed with Summoner augment schools, which we got 0 info about.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    All good, @NoctGamingHD

    Another bent on the tank summon (whatever shape) would be to have a series of taunting attacks that could trigger a Point of Weakness - which the rogue could then exploit for a damage multiplier. Wouldn’t have to be a backstab. Maybe a combo effect that synergizes with a particular spec (e.g. bleeding spec or poison spec).

    Another possibility could be similar to the GW2 mesmer’s use of clones - allowing the rogue to essentially shadow step between a few copies of themselves to trigger a similar damage multiplier.
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • Night WingsNight Wings Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited June 2022
    NiKr wrote: »
    Yep, both of those things are very close to what I'm imagining it's gonna be too. I hope it's some super cool interactions like I described, but I'm trying to reign in my imaginative mind, cause I know that I'll only get disappointed if I start thinking up all these cool and strong designs yet they'll never be in the game :'(

    Truuuuue!!!

    NoctGamingHD wrote: »
    See actually that my same thought except more of a Shadowy summon that has a bit more diverse AI command to be closer to WoW Hunter Pets or Frost mage water elemental where we can summon multiplies with a different capabilites like say one pet has more focus towards Tanking and can aggro and hold a line while we come in with rogue abilites to attack while it up or maybe in a raid make up we use a DPS Summon so we have double dps functions, Or a dungeon group that needs a little extra healing so we summon a Healer base summon?

    I'm not all exactly sure if you're going to be able to choose what category summon example (tank,healer,dps) I think that be limited to the summoner base class I hope I'm wrong though, because that be epic lol

    But yeah defiantly more shadowy for sure and agree with the AI command as well.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    CROW3 wrote: »
    Another bent on the tank summon (whatever shape) would be to have a series of taunting attacks that could trigger a Point of Weakness - which the rogue could then exploit for a damage multiplier. Wouldn’t have to be a backstab. Maybe a combo effect that synergizes with a particular spec (e.g. bleeding spec or poison spec).
    I reaaaaally hope there's some of that interaction between mirror-like classes too. An X/Rogue has poison augments on their abilities, while a Rogue main could not level up active poison abilities and instead put all the points into the passive abilities that get boosted against poisoned targets. The true party gameplay and synergy.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    Right? A core advantage to the rogue is the combat multiplier from highly targeted attacks to a target - to make up for the lowered ability to go toe-to-toe like a fighter. The big question for me is what this will look like in Ashes?

    Friendly adds would definitely aid in that positioning.
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • NoctGamingHDNoctGamingHD Member
    CROW3 wrote: »
    All good, @NoctGamingHD

    Another bent on the tank summon (whatever shape) would be to have a series of taunting attacks that could trigger a Point of Weakness - which the rogue could then exploit for a damage multiplier. Wouldn’t have to be a backstab. Maybe a combo effect that synergizes with a particular spec (e.g. bleeding spec or poison spec).

    Another possibility could be similar to the GW2 mesmer’s use of clones - allowing the rogue to essentially shadow step between a few copies of themselves to trigger a similar damage multiplier.

    Totally forgot about mesmer such a great point God i miss GW2...... Might go back now thank alot lol
    The Night is Full of Wonder's!
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Well...
    First off, let's keep in mind that any class ca use any weapon, so...
    A Shadowlord could be wielding a Great Sword, a Scythe, a Bow or a Battle Hammer.
    Some weapons willnot work as well as others. I expect blades will work best with Rogue/X.

    Shadowlords will primarily be using Rogue Active Skills: Crits, Bleeds, Poisons, Shadow Damage, Stealth...
    Then we have to think about what the 4 Summoner augment Schools will be and how those will alter the Active Skills they are attached to.

    Shadowlord seems to imply that they will be Summoning Shades and Shadows and things that dwell in the Shadows. I think the Shadowlord Summons probably won't be as powerful as the things a Nightspell Summons.

    But, yes, I could see a Backstab proccing a Shadow that "Javelins" just long enough for the Shadowlord to Backstab again. There could be Shades that wrap around the Shadowlord, primarily Poisoning enemies nearby while also granting a bit of "Ultimate Defense". Clawed Shadow Hands could Trap an Enemy while also causing them to Bleed. A Shadow Maw could clamp down on and Bleed an enemy and also Siphon some health.
  • SirChancelotSirChancelot Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    NoctGamingHD wrote: »
    SO this is a post for Class discussion and what you like to see and what you think it will be.

    1. So as we know Shadowlord is a Base Rogue Class with a Summoner secondary class, as Such we can figure out a few thing for this said class, do to rogue it will have a very dual wielding weapon with stealth and Speed base class

    2. Due to it summoner secondary which allow for control or Summoning of a creature to be use in battle as a dps tank or healer.

    3. so with these said Classes Now been described we can some what get a view as to what the class Shadowlord will be based off, So here my question to you all what would you like to see with this class?

    For me i hope to see a Class that somewhat base off like Sun Jin-woo form Solo leveling Manhwa, maybe not that overpowered but at least to a degree; Something like you can up to a Set certain amount of Summons in your repertoire that can be summon at a time, witht he ability to level up with you or have to level personally ( lol somewhat like pokemon lol) as well as being able to fight like a rogue, giving you the ability to fight multiple target at one time and as they die they use up mana? or as long as they are out they use mana but a low amount so not to overly hold the class back so that your not held back by mana threshold issues. honestly this is one of the classes that i see great potenial for and hope that the developers don't mess up, So what do you think everyone add on what you like to see for this class or what you think it will be i love to hear it all?!?! The Night is Full of Wonders!

    I also think so leveling is a good aesthetic for shadowlord. But the rogue/summoner should have more of his tricks like location swapping with a minion where the summoner/rogue should have the more of/more powerful minions.
  • KnightlySleepsKnightlySleeps Member
    Interesting discussion. I wonder where the line is between "summoner" and "mage augments. I could see things like the mentioned mirror or shadow summon of the player being described as either. Same with summoning knives to attack a target from behind. And since these will be augments, that means they are modifying the skills the rogue already has. We don't even have the basic information of what those base skills will be so that makes it difficult to imagine what the augments will be. But if there is a skill that throws knives, then something like the knives from behind the target sounds like a reasonable augment for either rogue/summoner or rogue/mage.

    When I look at the archetypes and think of the descriptions Intrepid has given us of the augment systems, it's hard to know exactly what to expect. But I'm very excited. At this point I have no idea what class I will main because I can imagine versions of many of them that would appeal to me a lot.
  • SylvanarSylvanar Member
    edited June 2022
    I dunno what spell of a rogue can be augmented in a way that it summons a beast/tank/healer/etc. As a secondary archtype it is not suppose to introduce new spells but augment the existing ones. One augment I can think of is wrt to poison.

    Generally, poison applies an effect which lasts for a period of time BUT with summoner augment, the poison can work such that live worms/maggots are summoned on successful application of poison such that the poison effect lasts as long as the summon would be alive. Say default duration is 5 seconds but with this augment it would last as long as the summoned creature is alive. This would give better combo/teamwork possibilities.

    A rogue is stealthy, stab happy thief cum assassin. So utility style of summons makes more sense such as hawks for bird eye view, chameleons for information gathering, snakes for poison creating stuff, worms for poison application and for combat purposes something like panther - fast, shadowy, fearsome.

    For a different school of summon augment we can have shade summons like Dygz mentioned.

    As far as tank/heal summons is concerned I dont see how those are even relevant to ROGUE class. That is more of a summoner playstyle with rogue secondary. I imagine a rogue with a tank/heal summon and it feels ridiculous. A rogue standing in front of a crowd going, "I choose you, Bob."... urgh. I really hope that rogues dont have such generic purpose, unoriginal, run of the mill summons.
    Dygz wrote: »
    I think the Shadowlord Summons probably won't be as powerful as the things a Nightspell Summons.
    Although I dont get why Nightspell would have summons?
    "Suffer in silence"
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I meant Shadowmancer.

    The Mage augment Schools we know are Elemental and Teleport. We will have to see what the other 2 Mage augment Schools are.
    I expect the things a Shadowmancer Summons will be larger and more powerful than the things a Shadowlord Summons.
  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    When I think of this class I imagine a rogue with abilities augmented to summon shadows for anything from dealing extra damage, cc, or even taunts. No idea what the extent of augments will be yet but thats generally what I would think of for this class. Maybe something similar to mirror image where you summon shadows and become similar looking as one so its harder to tell which one you are. Could be a fun concept to mess around with.
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • SylvanarSylvanar Member
    I have read various comments regarding clones. Clones are more closely related to mage class imo.

    You don't summon a clone, you make a clone with magic. Why? Summon implies a form of contract or a master/slave relationship between summoner/summon. At least this is my interpretation of the class and don't see how this can be applied in conjunction with clones.

    So augments like creating clones, swapping places with a clone and things of this nature would be more inline with Nightspell rather than Shadowlord.
    "Suffer in silence"
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    The shadow realm. And you know who might be able to control shadows? A Lord. You might even call him... Shadow Lord.
  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I mean, if we are talking flavor of whats wanted by those interested in the class. Then share ideas by all means.


    But if we're wanting to look at the systems we know of right now. And how they are expected to work. Then we should be talking about what the 4 summoner augments maybe, and how they would effect rouge skills
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