I hope the developers are proactive about dealing with toxicity

Looking at this game, I see great potential like a lot of people do but I also see some potential pitfalls, and toxicity is one of them.

I once played EVE Online, which in many ways was and is a cool game, but the nullsec pvp metagame had a well-earned reputation for toxicity. It's gotten slightly better since, but it's still a problem. Racist and homophobic slurs were everywhere when I was playing, and it eventually made me leave the game (among other things).

It looks to me like Ashes of Creation will likely create a pvp metagame similar to EVE's. When I similar I mean faintly as they'll be two very different games in almost every other way, so the resemblance may not be obvious. But if there are limited resources (as it appears there will be), there'll likely at least some people who end up fighting over those resources, which will mean frustration on the part of the losers and (probably) some gloating on the part of the winners. These are the sorts of things that can spiral.

To me, a certain amount of mutual hostility and "meanness" (for lack of a better word) isn't necessarily toxic. However in mass PVP situations such as EVE, and to some extent ArcheAge and GW2 have had bits of this as well, toxicity can become a competitive advantage. That is, players will deliberately try to needle and demoralize their opponents, and many will be tempted or (or will take the excuse to) cross over into homophobia/racism/whatever they come up with next. Basically, they cross over from the fair-play sort of meanness into the actually-wrong sort.

In my experience the only proven-successful method of combating toxicity is to have actual active moderation. Any kind of automated system or self-reporting system will be gamed by the same people it's supposed to stop - IMO the only real way to do it is to have actual humans involved.

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Comments

Dygz

I think that assumes hostility would be mutual.
Or that hostility is part of the fun for most players.

George_Black

Toxicity... I had enough of that word. Other than that I agree with OP.

Users should be banned for a period of time if:
They use excessive foul language and insults
Make racist and homophobic remarks and insults.
If the offender does this again, slap them a nice perma-ban.

Absolutely nothing else should be an offence. And I rly dislike how any form of conversation or argument is shut down when it comes to religion and politics. Just because some dont have the brain to exchange opinions and prefer to overreact to something they disagree, people shouldn't receive warnings and bans.
There is a big difference in attacking somebody and talking about global affairs.

These days people are out on a mission to punish everybody, even those that have never caused harm. But I don't expect anybody in the entertainment industry to have a proper moral stance. Just sayin

unknown

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NishUK

I'm digusted with this rhetoric.

Do you want a good enemy or not? Should all your enemies be polite angels?

If you're really a mature person, you will accept the fact that people are still growing and have a lot to learn....or don't and they are who they are.

Sylvanar

People are gonna be toxic. The best solution for OP seems to me is to not play and avoid this mess all together.

The other solution from IS side that can be implemented is to have "ignore" feature. Kinda like block where if offended then we can "ignore" that person and he/she would not be able to dm, mail or have any form of communication means available to them henceforth.

Punishment for saying words seems as childish as getting offended by them. Its a game. Take lite.

For me elitism is most toxic thing about MMOs. But it is what it is. Ignore and move on.

Dygz

With a variety of diffrent playstyles all on the same server - it's going to feel toxic.
Different people are disgusted by different stuff.
Different people have different thresholds for conflict - Steven considers conflict to be fun.
To the degree that he was a toxic player in his younger years and... he hopes that people aren't quite as bad as he was when they play Ashes.

I think an ignore feature doesn't really work.
The ony way I can be griefed is to force me into non-consensual PvP.
I don't need an ignore feature to ignore chat - but some people can fee griefed by chat.
RPers can feel griefed by having trolls run through their outdoor weddings.
I would just hold the weddings in an obscure location - for Ashes, we can at least hold such events safely in our freeholds, but...that could still be a dealbreaker for some players - not ENOUGH safe spaces for their playstyle.

unknown

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BaSkA_9x2

This is a non-issue.

Toxicity is subjective. I couldn't care less about toxic players, I can mute/block/ignore annoying people whenever I want, even though I enjoy taking screenshots of mad people calling me names after being destroyed. However, someone else might break into tears if they're called a noob or fat or whatever insult they come up with.

BigMouse wrote: »

However in mass PVP situations ... toxicity can become a competitive advantage. That is, players will deliberately try to needle and demoralize their opponents

Respectfully, if you are in a "competitive disadvantage" because people are being toxic to you then that's the least of your problems, you should learn how to deal with insults and look for a psychologist to help you. Asking the game to protect your feelings is an absolute waste of resources.

BigMouse wrote: »

...many will be tempted or (or will take the excuse to) cross over into homophobia/racism/whatever they come up with next. Basically, they cross over from the fair-play sort of meanness into the actually-wrong sort.

Racism is already against the rules, report the idiot and mute them. Hopefully they'll be banned for a month.

tl;dr: words don't hurt.

BigMouse

Look at all you hit dogs hollering. Maybe I need to be more clear: if the playerbase is full of right-wing bullshit I'm not playing.

PenguinPaladin

Pfffft. Hahahahahahahahaha wow. Yeah. You hear that intrepid! We're talking a single repubican veiw and this whole thing is being shut down........ i cant believe politics has entered a videogame forum

CROW3

I'm waiting for the inevitable moment where the thread to curb toxicity becomes toxic itself.

My guess is that Intrepid's strategy to use live GMs will be most useful in this space. I also think that bans have to be handled in a cut and dry way with a simple list of criteria. If they can't do this is a consistent, absolute manner - it will break the back of the Live GM strat.

Mag7spy

BigMouse wrote: »

Look at all you hit dogs hollering. Maybe I need to be more clear: if the playerbase is full of right-wing bullshit I'm not playing.

Stop being toxic please. Someone's political view point has nothing to do with a game. If someone doesn't want to be called fat or a noob you block the person /group if they are seriously harassing beyond a few comments you report to the gm or file a ticket.

Mag7spy

Also noticed this is your only post and you made a account the same day, so unsure if you are trying to troll to try and get a reaction as you have only commented here like you are trying to start a issue.

Ferryman

If you play hardcore PvP games it is typical that the PvP happens not just in the game but also on chat, discord and forums. Best way to avoid that shit is just ignore and not participate on those banterns in anyway. However, racism, sexism, harashment and things like that which are against ToS should of course lead to actions.

Caww

BigMouse wrote: »

Look at all you hit dogs hollering. Maybe I need to be more clear: if the playerbase is full of right-wing bullshit I'm not playing.

A New World global chat for a popular NA East server (when they had those...) was full of the above stuff and it was constant, so it can be a real concern when allowed to run without moderation.

Never saw any of it in EQ/EQ2/ESO so how it manages to permeate a server is a bit of a mystery to me.

Liniker

Big fucking NO. I hate when companies police their games like it should be a safe place for everyone.... they should ONLY take action when there is hate speech with stuff like racism being said on global chat or something, nothing else.

Liniker

BigMouse wrote: »

Look at all you hit dogs hollering. Maybe I need to be more clear: if the playerbase is full of right-wing bullshit I'm not playing.

Stupidity has no limits.... you should leave these forums this is embarrassing to read.

Noaani

BigMouse wrote: »

Look at all you hit dogs hollering. Maybe I need to be more clear: if the playerbase is full of right-wing bullshit I'm not playing.

But you are accepting of left wing bullshit?

I'm lucky in that I live in a place where left vs right isn't that big of a deal. We tend to go based on competence and policy, rather than red team vs blue team.

That said, looking in from the outside of both sides, they have a fairly equal amount of bullshit that they vomit.

TheDarkSorcerer

@BigMouse I think we'll have a great experience in AOC. Intrepid team is very diverse! This made me support them even more to be honest.

+ The man behind this game is an openly gay man, so I am a full believer Intrepid will have 0 tolerence for nonsense in this game

So if there are people with views who feel the need to be hateful or to disrespect other players based on gender, sexual orientation or ethnicity, then this game is probably not for them.

Craiken

I have no idea how the game will be moderated, but I must say that I'm surprised by the number of people who seem to believe that the concerns raised in this thread are a non-issue and that words should not have consequences. Here are some relevant passages from Interpid's terms of service:

We want to make sure that our Games and Website remain fun, healthy, and safe environments for you and your friends to enjoy. By accepting our Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, you understand that these Community Guidelines apply to your use of both the Website and our Games

You will NOT harass other users. Harassment includes but is not limited:

Disparaging, defaming, name-calling, or engaging in any form of discrimination against another member of the Community;

https://ashesofcreation.com/terms-and-conditions

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