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I hope the developers are proactive about dealing with toxicity
BigMouse
Member
Looking at this game, I see great potential like a lot of people do but I also see some potential pitfalls, and toxicity is one of them.
I once played EVE Online, which in many ways was and is a cool game, but the nullsec pvp metagame had a well-earned reputation for toxicity. It's gotten slightly better since, but it's still a problem. Racist and homophobic slurs were everywhere when I was playing, and it eventually made me leave the game (among other things).
It looks to me like Ashes of Creation will likely create a pvp metagame similar to EVE's. When I similar I mean faintly as they'll be two very different games in almost every other way, so the resemblance may not be obvious. But if there are limited resources (as it appears there will be), there'll likely at least some people who end up fighting over those resources, which will mean frustration on the part of the losers and (probably) some gloating on the part of the winners. These are the sorts of things that can spiral.
To me, a certain amount of mutual hostility and "meanness" (for lack of a better word) isn't necessarily toxic. However in mass PVP situations such as EVE, and to some extent ArcheAge and GW2 have had bits of this as well, toxicity can become a competitive advantage. That is, players will deliberately try to needle and demoralize their opponents, and many will be tempted or (or will take the excuse to) cross over into homophobia/racism/whatever they come up with next. Basically, they cross over from the fair-play sort of meanness into the actually-wrong sort.
In my experience the only proven-successful method of combating toxicity is to have actual active moderation. Any kind of automated system or self-reporting system will be gamed by the same people it's supposed to stop - IMO the only real way to do it is to have actual humans involved.
I once played EVE Online, which in many ways was and is a cool game, but the nullsec pvp metagame had a well-earned reputation for toxicity. It's gotten slightly better since, but it's still a problem. Racist and homophobic slurs were everywhere when I was playing, and it eventually made me leave the game (among other things).
It looks to me like Ashes of Creation will likely create a pvp metagame similar to EVE's. When I similar I mean faintly as they'll be two very different games in almost every other way, so the resemblance may not be obvious. But if there are limited resources (as it appears there will be), there'll likely at least some people who end up fighting over those resources, which will mean frustration on the part of the losers and (probably) some gloating on the part of the winners. These are the sorts of things that can spiral.
To me, a certain amount of mutual hostility and "meanness" (for lack of a better word) isn't necessarily toxic. However in mass PVP situations such as EVE, and to some extent ArcheAge and GW2 have had bits of this as well, toxicity can become a competitive advantage. That is, players will deliberately try to needle and demoralize their opponents, and many will be tempted or (or will take the excuse to) cross over into homophobia/racism/whatever they come up with next. Basically, they cross over from the fair-play sort of meanness into the actually-wrong sort.
In my experience the only proven-successful method of combating toxicity is to have actual active moderation. Any kind of automated system or self-reporting system will be gamed by the same people it's supposed to stop - IMO the only real way to do it is to have actual humans involved.
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Comments
Or that hostility is part of the fun for most players.
Users should be banned for a period of time if:
They use excessive foul language and insults
Make racist and homophobic remarks and insults.
If the offender does this again, slap them a nice perma-ban.
Absolutely nothing else should be an offence. And I rly dislike how any form of conversation or argument is shut down when it comes to religion and politics. Just because some dont have the brain to exchange opinions and prefer to overreact to something they disagree, people shouldn't receive warnings and bans.
There is a big difference in attacking somebody and talking about global affairs.
These days people are out on a mission to punish everybody, even those that have never caused harm. But I don't expect anybody in the entertainment industry to have a proper moral stance. Just sayin
I'd like the least amount of moderation so that the same mouth frothing malding and peak seething is unleashed in the chat.
Do you want a good enemy or not? Should all your enemies be polite angels?
If you're really a mature person, you will accept the fact that people are still growing and have a lot to learn....or don't and they are who they are.
The other solution from IS side that can be implemented is to have "ignore" feature. Kinda like block where if offended then we can "ignore" that person and he/she would not be able to dm, mail or have any form of communication means available to them henceforth.
Punishment for saying words seems as childish as getting offended by them. Its a game. Take lite.
For me elitism is most toxic thing about MMOs. But it is what it is. Ignore and move on.
Different people are disgusted by different stuff.
Different people have different thresholds for conflict - Steven considers conflict to be fun.
To the degree that he was a toxic player in his younger years and... he hopes that people aren't quite as bad as he was when they play Ashes.
I think an ignore feature doesn't really work.
The ony way I can be griefed is to force me into non-consensual PvP.
I don't need an ignore feature to ignore chat - but some people can fee griefed by chat.
RPers can feel griefed by having trolls run through their outdoor weddings.
I would just hold the weddings in an obscure location - for Ashes, we can at least hold such events safely in our freeholds, but...that could still be a dealbreaker for some players - not ENOUGH safe spaces for their playstyle.
Toxicity is subjective. I couldn't care less about toxic players, I can mute/block/ignore annoying people whenever I want, even though I enjoy taking screenshots of mad people calling me names after being destroyed. However, someone else might break into tears if they're called a noob or fat or whatever insult they come up with.
Respectfully, if you are in a "competitive disadvantage" because people are being toxic to you then that's the least of your problems, you should learn how to deal with insults and look for a psychologist to help you. Asking the game to protect your feelings is an absolute waste of resources.
Racism is already against the rules, report the idiot and mute them. Hopefully they'll be banned for a month.
tl;dr: words don't hurt.
My guess is that Intrepid's strategy to use live GMs will be most useful in this space. I also think that bans have to be handled in a cut and dry way with a simple list of criteria. If they can't do this is a consistent, absolute manner - it will break the back of the Live GM strat.
Stop being toxic please. Someone's political view point has nothing to do with a game. If someone doesn't want to be called fat or a noob you block the person /group if they are seriously harassing beyond a few comments you report to the gm or file a ticket.
A New World global chat for a popular NA East server (when they had those...) was full of the above stuff and it was constant, so it can be a real concern when allowed to run without moderation.
Never saw any of it in EQ/EQ2/ESO so how it manages to permeate a server is a bit of a mystery to me.
Stupidity has no limits.... you should leave these forums this is embarrassing to read.
But you are accepting of left wing bullshit?
I'm lucky in that I live in a place where left vs right isn't that big of a deal. We tend to go based on competence and policy, rather than red team vs blue team.
That said, looking in from the outside of both sides, they have a fairly equal amount of bullshit that they vomit.
So if there are people with views who feel the need to be hateful or to disrespect other players based on gender, sexual orientation or ethnicity, then this game is probably not for them.
We want to make sure that our Games and Website remain fun, healthy, and safe environments for you and your friends to enjoy. By accepting our Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, you understand that these Community Guidelines apply to your use of both the Website and our Games
You will NOT harass other users. Harassment includes but is not limited:
Disparaging, defaming, name-calling, or engaging in any form of discrimination against another member of the Community;
https://ashesofcreation.com/terms-and-conditions
Discrimination against ethnicity is mandatory. Tulnars aren't welcome.
You are defiantly missing the point. And those are standard in any forum. There is a difference between someone name calling and someone name calling as harassments. There is a difference between people having issues with each other and it spiraling to becoming a big toxic mess. Does that mean people need to be banned, or muted for a week for calling someone dumb. No that is silly.
People know int his thread what a issue is and will agree in serious cases (racisms, actual harassments not a one time comment, sexism, etc). Context and a pattern is important, so I'm a bit surprised you aren't understanding the context of what people are implying.
Does drama happen ina pvp game, of course. Does that mean you start banning people cause they aren't like gg i lost the castle after you back stabbed me but it was a good fight, no. If its extreme and someone causing a issue with a lot of people, should they be warned yes.
You are welcome to leave.
No on is asking you to play.
Nothing of value will be lost to the community.
You are likely to get a right hook talking all high and mighty, pretending you are not a toxic little snake yourself.
I personally think his words should have consequences.
Should someone that uses racial slurs be banned? Well, that depends on the racial slur. I remember a few years ago, Steven Adams got in trouble for misusing the word "monkey" . To him, it was simply a term used in his home country, it wasn't a racial slur at all. But to others it was the second worst thing he could say.
A slur isn't about specific words used, it is about intent. Look at English and Australian people - they will use the same word (that four letter word beginning with "C" that is one of only two words even *I* wouldn't dare to type on these forums). To people from these countries, that word is used as an affectionate term as much as it is anything else - the only way you can differentiate it is from the intent behind it.
Another example of this can be seen in streaming in China right now. It is against the rules for any streamer to show a banana on screen, and your stream will be pulled down immediately if one is seen. This is the extreme end of banning the word/object, rather than taking the intent in to consideration.
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Any half educated baffoon would be able to string together a series of words that are offensive to any ordinary listener, without needing to resort to the use of that list of words many feel are offensive. They can do this simply by making use of intent.
By this logic, anyone using such language is either less than a half educated baffoon, or is not trying to be offensive. They may have bad taste, along with a lack of education, but bad taste is subjective. If they are not trying to be offensive, I fail to see why anyone would be offended by what they say.
To me, personally, anyone that would be offended (or claim to be offended is actually more realistic) at the sight of some specific words if there is no intent behind them is the person that should be removed from the game (if anyone is to be removed in this situation), not the person that used those words.
On the other hand, if there was intent behind what was said, even if none of that list of words is used, it is right and good for Intrepid to take some form of action against them.
Sorry Noaani, I should have been more specific about which comments I was referencing. I was surprised by comments like, "People are gonna be toxic. The best solution for OP seems to me is to not play".
My point was that there absolutely are limits on how mean and nasty people are allowed to be. No one expects players to be perfect angels all the time, but I don't think the OP needs to be worried about getting bombarded by homophobia/racism while playing AoC (as that's clearly against the terms of service).
However, for extreme issues then, yes have mechanics so GM can be notified and capacity to intervene.
Still like the idea of some stocks or hangman trusses in town for players to be held in suspension for all to see for things like multiple-day suspensions, minor offences