I agree with noanni on this one as well. I don't understand why crafting should just be a simulator. I would love for mini game esque things to be played. And like nepoke suggested that mass production could be more of a game keeping the production line going instead of cutting each brick individually. I think when it comes to making legendary sword of owning bitches it should probably have a lot of complex steps involved. Similar to the difference between fighting no name mob vs fighting big raid boss.
Exactly, why is there so much more involved in making minor things like ingots? I already spend the time to gather mats and pvp to keep or take it. My end goal is to be an armorer and maybe weapon maker also if possible.
But you most likely won't be getting the materials in ashes. You will be mastering only one profession branch. Unless you want to be a jack of all trades and only work with the basics. So your line of thinking doesn't really work. If you want to master making armor you won't be getting the materials or making the ingots (again other than the basics) so it makes sense to have each profession line have to perform some sort of task
You are explaining this to someone who clearly wants professions to be effortless.
I think OP should just play raid shadow legends, there you have autorun and autoplay ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯
I agree with noanni on this one as well. I don't understand why crafting should just be a simulator. I would love for mini game esque things to be played. And like nepoke suggested that mass production could be more of a game keeping the production line going instead of cutting each brick individually. I think when it comes to making legendary sword of owning bitches it should probably have a lot of complex steps involved. Similar to the difference between fighting no name mob vs fighting big raid boss.
Exactly, why is there so much more involved in making minor things like ingots? I already spend the time to gather mats and pvp to keep or take it. My end goal is to be an armorer and maybe weapon maker also if possible.
But you most likely won't be getting the materials in ashes. You will be mastering only one profession branch. Unless you want to be a jack of all trades and only work with the basics. So your line of thinking doesn't really work. If you want to master making armor you won't be getting the materials or making the ingots (again other than the basics) so it makes sense to have each profession line have to perform some sort of task
You can have more than one character and from what I understand master is not locked per account by per character. 3 characters, one for gathering, one for processing, and one for crafting. Whatever I can master from those 3 is all I'll be making. If I'm required to have 3 accounts then so be it, 3 accounts I will have.
"I want to have 3 characters so i can manage to do everything myself, but one of them shouldnt have to play the game, he should just exist so my other 2 can gather/craft together"
Sadly he/she will be the unwanted but needed middleman/woman for the gathering/farming and crafting toons. I'm hoping that mass production will be possible because no one will want to spend all the extra time making 1 ingot. Well maybe I'll just become the ingot king and sell them at an absurd price since everyone will just sell ore than make ingots.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I love the Crafting in Valheim.
That’s a Survival Game, so I think it’s not a great fit for an MMORPG…but …
I think some stuff like Smelting shouldn’t need any hands on. Some types of processing shouldn’t need mini-games or constant attention.
I dont see processing as a "constant attention" kind of mini game either. I see it as a check in style mini game.
I imagine, processing useing a nodes facilities will be more of a "small batch" processing system. where is it more of a constant minigame to finish products, where processing on a free hold it more of a, refill the fire once or twice a day, water plants once or twice a day, harvest a huge number of product like once a week style of chore.
And the potential of allowing others to work on your freehold facilities could mean you just hire other players to do the checkins for you
How ashes artisan roles are laid out. With the games risk/reward focus. It does go to say processing should not be just a middle step in the process. Processors should have to do something from time to time, that does matter for their outcome of materials. And failing to do so should have a negative outcome, be it loss of some ingredients or whatever may be. I still dont support, my character progressing while im just standing around, at any point. If the game as a whole is trying to give each person purpose behind how they want to play, processors should not just be middle men that control the pace of the economy
I agree with noanni on this one as well. I don't understand why crafting should just be a simulator. I would love for mini game esque things to be played. And like nepoke suggested that mass production could be more of a game keeping the production line going instead of cutting each brick individually. I think when it comes to making legendary sword of owning bitches it should probably have a lot of complex steps involved. Similar to the difference between fighting no name mob vs fighting big raid boss.
Exactly, why is there so much more involved in making minor things like ingots? I already spend the time to gather mats and pvp to keep or take it. My end goal is to be an armorer and maybe weapon maker also if possible.
**Example of something different but same logic**
After killing mobs for 1 hr you're not required to process your kills for XP and I feel doing all the extra work to process mats is no different than adding another step to mob grinding for XP. Everything drops 1 token which you have to take to a certificate of death printer which you have to stay there to fill with paper and add toner when getting low. Then you take all your certs to trade in for XP. But be cautious out there because you can loose some of those XP tokens if killed.
Replace 'XP' with 'Currency' and I have some bad news for you...
So you call yourself a hardcore crafter, are outraged that there isn't afk processing and wish to gather all of your own mats? In the game that has inter-connectivity baked into every mechanic you wish to be a one man factory? I'm sincerely confused as to what you hope your gameplay loop to be in terms of the actual crafting. Or are you more into the idea of getting all of the pieces together and want to be rewarded by just auto-generating (crafting) items as a result?
Personally I'd love to be as little afk things to do in-game as possible. I don't want to be forced to leave my computer on, nor do I think people who do/can should be rewarded for wasting electricity/pumping up concurrent player numbers. The more skill-checks and intentional player choices the better imo.
Edit: to clarify, I am not a proponent of requiring constant attention for processing, but for it to be completely passive? Nah.
How ashes artisan roles are laid out. With the games risk/reward focus. It does go to say processing should not be just a middle step in the process. Processors should have to do something from time to time, that does matter for their outcome of materials. And failing to do so should have a negative outcome, be it loss of some ingredients or whatever may be. I still dont support, my character progressing while im just standing around, at any point. If the game as a whole is trying to give each person purpose behind how they want to play, processors should not just be middle men that control the pace of the economy
But processors will be middle men that control the market.
Wood is not used to make ingots. COKE is used which is a byproduct of coal. Making ingots in real life isn't as complex as Steven is proposing for AOC. Making ingots does not require constant babying.
Wood is not used to make ingots. COKE is used which is a byproduct of coal. Making ingots in real life isn't as complex as Steven is proposing for AOC.
Is it a good idea to apply real life situations to a fantasy MMORPG (where everything is imaginary)?
I don't know if this a troll post on not but I don't like economies and power getting inflated so easily.
That vision of an "experience" is an alt, how can you find worth when every dedicated/hardcore player will easily be doing the same. Truly baffles me that you find this kind of thing top tier entertainment.
Wood is not used to make ingots. COKE is used which is a byproduct of coal. Making ingots in real life isn't as complex as Steven is proposing for AOC. Making ingots does not require constant babying.
Coke is used now, but back in the day they would collect wood and then it in to charcoal to use in the forge - so Steven was right in that the first step is collecting wood.
You say you put all of the time and effort in collecting ore and you just want to make armor. In many games, collecting the material is one task, and turning that in to an item is another.
In Ashes, there is a middle task as well, and you are basically asking for it to be removed.
Since collecting, processing and crafting are all their own thing in Ashes, each should take roughly as much time as the others. Mini-game is how they are able to accomplish this.
It is also worth keeping in mind, you aren't really supposed to be able to do it all yourself in Ashes - you are supposed to be a part of the economy and buy from others.
Wood is not used to make ingots. COKE is used which is a byproduct of coal. Making ingots in real life isn't as complex as Steven is proposing for AOC. Making ingots does not require constant babying.
Coke is used now, but back in the day they would collect wood and then it in to charcoal to use in the forge - so Steven was right in that the first step is collecting wood.
You say you put all of the time and effort in collecting ore and you just want to make armor. In many games, collecting the material is one task, and turning that in to an item is another.
In Ashes, there is a middle task as well, and you are basically asking for it to be removed.
Since collecting, processing and crafting are all their own thing in Ashes, each should take roughly as much time as the others. Mini-game is how they are able to accomplish this.
It is also worth keeping in mind, you aren't really supposed to be able to do it all yourself in Ashes - you are supposed to be a part of the economy and buy from others.
Correct, charcoal was used for early iron smelting but not wood. You can't get the forge hot enough by using wood. Blacksmiths did processing in the early era and didn't need a middleman. I'm finding out that making ingots is a mastery itself which is a bit unnecessary. It's going to create a bottleneck.
I don't plan to do it all myself nor would anyone be able to, but gathering and making the mats to make armor and weapons shouldn't be a multi person operation. I've put in tens of thousands of hours into MMOs and this babying thing to get more involved is unnecessary. When I make cookies I have my prep and put them on the baking sheet then in the oven it goes. It doesn't need to be more involved than that. 20 mins of AFK and they are done. Out the oven and set them out and AFK for 2 hours before they are ready to eat. Some things just requires time and that's it, no need to reinvent the wheel.
When I make cookies I have my prep and put them on the baking sheet then in the oven it goes. It doesn't need to be more involved than that. 20 mins of AFK and they are done. Out the oven and set them out and AFK for 2 hours before they are ready to eat. Some things just requires time and that's it, no need to reinvent the wheel.
So you craft them then? You, as a single person, use a shitton of materials, that dozens of other people worked on, in order to make a single "item". Or do you work the fields to get grain to then mill it into flour? Do you raise chickens to get eggs? Do you raise and milk cows (if you use milk in the recipe)? What about any chemical additions to the recipe like baking powder?
And even w/o those things, you still need to combine all of that into one thing, in proper ratios, in order to successfully make a cookie. So I feel like this is a bad parallel to draw.
When I make cookies I have my prep and put them on the baking sheet then in the oven it goes. It doesn't need to be more involved than that. 20 mins of AFK and they are done. Out the oven and set them out and AFK for 2 hours before they are ready to eat. Some things just requires time and that's it, no need to reinvent the wheel.
So you craft them then? You, as a single person, use a shitton of materials, that dozens of other people worked on, in order to make a single "item". Or do you work the fields to get grain to then mill it into flour? Do you raise chickens to get eggs? Do you raise and milk cows (if you use milk in the recipe)? What about any chemical additions to the recipe like baking powder?
And even w/o those things, you still need to combine all of that into one thing, in proper ratios, in order to successfully make a cookie. So I feel like this is a bad parallel to draw.
Actually its kind of a perfect parallel, in the fact that he just gets cookie dough at the store. Just like he can just buy his processed mats from other players if he doesnt want to use the involved processing system.
Actually its kind of a perfect parallel, in the fact that he just gets cookie dough at the store. Just like he can just buy his processed mats from other players if he doesnt want to use the involved processing system.
But he wants to do everything in Ashes himself. Which is why it's a bad example, cause he did maybe 0.01% of work for those cookies? Probably even less, especially if you take into account the time required to grow grain/chickens/cows.
But yes, he can in fact just buy anything at any stage of "cookie making", including the cookie itself.
Actually its kind of a perfect parallel, in the fact that he just gets cookie dough at the store. Just like he can just buy his processed mats from other players if he doesnt want to use the involved processing system.
But he wants to do everything in Ashes himself. Which is why it's a bad example, cause he did maybe 0.01% of work for those cookies? Probably even less, especially if you take into account the time required to grow grain/chickens/cows.
But yes, he can in fact just buy anything at any stage of "cookie making", including the cookie itself.
Definitely less than 1% since unless the user is in charge of/works for a petroleum or natural gas refinery, or an electric power grid, the fuel/power for the baking was not gathered by them either.
Definitely less than 1% since unless the user is in charge of/works for a petroleum or natural gas refinery, or an electric power grid, the fuel/power for the baking was not gathered by them either.
And if we go the Sagan way, his work is nowhere near the scale required to make something from scratch on your own
Honestly making 3 separate categories of artisan skill and requiring a sort of time sink(preferably one that can be enjoyable, i.e minigames) is an efficient way to regulate economy inflation. And since this MMO is focusing on making choices in-game that matter, it would make sense to make it immensely time-consuming and difficult to do more than a few master artisan skills completely on your own across several characters. Maybe not impossible, but it should be a daunting task to corner an entire means of production by yourself.
As someone who has done omni crafting and gathering in FFXIV (that's every crafter lvl'd up as well as gatherers), Mini games sucks. It's fun for the first 15 times then it just becomes monotonous. There's a solid reason everyone uses macros for crafting over there...because it's not a fun situation at all. Ashes doesn't need mini games like that, otherwise less people are going to do crafting than are already going to do it...which wouldn't be much of a problem in other mmos because of the way the AH/MB functions in them, but it functions completely different here.
Mini games are and will always be a hard no from me. You think you might want it, but believe me you absolutely do not. Luckily it isn't a thing with Ashes.
Its actually quite possibly a thing. Just not set in stone. Needs to be tested and then they will continue based off of the testing.
There will be a preparatory phase to provide the building with needed fuel or other materials to process the required grade of materials.[5]
Processing as it stands for Alpha-2's implementation is that there is a certain amount of prep work that's required first for the industry-specific component, which is the building. That prep work might be finding a certain amount of lumber to light the fire in kiln or whatever, to a certain temperature in order for you to process a certain grade of ore; and that grade of ore being malleable then into an ingot; and that produces that ingot so-to-speak. Now, in that process there's a gathering component, there's a preparatory phase, there is a time-related component.[5] – Steven Sharif
There will also be time-related and gameplay elements that require the player to interact with the processing building. These elements act to throttle for the introduction of processed materials from raw gatherables into the economy.[5] There's also possibilities that the machine you're using itself has some type of gameplay layer- should the kiln get overheated, and you have to throw some water on it or something. There are elements there in that process that we want to mimic this gameplay opportunity for players to interact; and not just be a time-sink. But time-sink is also a component of it as well, because that's the throttle for the introduction of processed materials from raw gatherables into the economy.[5] – Steven Sharif
As someone who has done omni crafting and gathering in FFXIV (that's every crafter lvl'd up as well as gatherers), Mini games sucks. It's fun for the first 15 times then it just becomes monotonous. There's a solid reason everyone uses macros for crafting over there...because it's not a fun situation at all. Ashes doesn't need mini games like that, otherwise less people are going to do crafting than are already going to do it...which wouldn't be much of a problem in other mmos because of the way the AH/MB functions in them, but it functions completely different here.
Mini games are and will always be a hard no from me. You think you might want it, but believe me you absolutely do not. Luckily it isn't a thing with Ashes.
If this isnt valid feedback I dont know what is. People think they want something because it's a momentary though. It will get boring so quick even for those that defend the concept. Tedious was my word.
Meanwhile there are a couple of threads going on about having weapons visible on the characters as well as proper weapon draw animations. Much less work. Much more important to make people love a videogame.
Its actually quite possibly a thing. Just not set in stone. Needs to be tested and then they will continue based off of the testing.
There will be a preparatory phase to provide the building with needed fuel or other materials to process the required grade of materials.[5]
Processing as it stands for Alpha-2's implementation is that there is a certain amount of prep work that's required first for the industry-specific component, which is the building. That prep work might be finding a certain amount of lumber to light the fire in kiln or whatever, to a certain temperature in order for you to process a certain grade of ore; and that grade of ore being malleable then into an ingot; and that produces that ingot so-to-speak. Now, in that process there's a gathering component, there's a preparatory phase, there is a time-related component.[5] – Steven Sharif
There will also be time-related and gameplay elements that require the player to interact with the processing building. These elements act to throttle for the introduction of processed materials from raw gatherables into the economy.[5] There's also possibilities that the machine you're using itself has some type of gameplay layer- should the kiln get overheated, and you have to throw some water on it or something. There are elements there in that process that we want to mimic this gameplay opportunity for players to interact; and not just be a time-sink. But time-sink is also a component of it as well, because that's the throttle for the introduction of processed materials from raw gatherables into the economy.[5] – Steven Sharif
Here's the thing. That most likely won't make it out of testing. We've already had discussions on this kind of thing in the past. Mini games involved with crafting was a massive "No" from the community, and the only people who kept raving about why it should exist were such a minute fraction that it was irrelevant. Steven can say that something won't change because of "X", but testing shows that if people don't like it that it will get changed. This is one of those things that probably won't see the light of launch and that's honestly a good thing. Monotony is not a mechanic, it's a mechanic killer.
Coupling this with the already present issue of the best processing being tied to freeholds (which I suspect is also going to change), and how the market system is intended to work...it doesn't equate to a good flowing, let alone functioning, market environment.
Its actually quite possibly a thing. Just not set in stone. Needs to be tested and then they will continue based off of the testing.
There will be a preparatory phase to provide the building with needed fuel or other materials to process the required grade of materials.[5]
Processing as it stands for Alpha-2's implementation is that there is a certain amount of prep work that's required first for the industry-specific component, which is the building. That prep work might be finding a certain amount of lumber to light the fire in kiln or whatever, to a certain temperature in order for you to process a certain grade of ore; and that grade of ore being malleable then into an ingot; and that produces that ingot so-to-speak. Now, in that process there's a gathering component, there's a preparatory phase, there is a time-related component.[5] – Steven Sharif
There will also be time-related and gameplay elements that require the player to interact with the processing building. These elements act to throttle for the introduction of processed materials from raw gatherables into the economy.[5] There's also possibilities that the machine you're using itself has some type of gameplay layer- should the kiln get overheated, and you have to throw some water on it or something. There are elements there in that process that we want to mimic this gameplay opportunity for players to interact; and not just be a time-sink. But time-sink is also a component of it as well, because that's the throttle for the introduction of processed materials from raw gatherables into the economy.[5] – Steven Sharif
Here's the thing. That most likely won't make it out of testing. We've already had discussions on this kind of thing in the past. Mini games involved with crafting was a massive "No" from the community, and the only people who kept raving about why it should exist were such a minute fraction that it was irrelevant. Steven can say that something won't change because of "X", but testing shows that if people don't like it that it will get changed. This is one of those things that probably won't see the light of launch and that's honestly a good thing. Monotony is not a mechanic, it's a mechanic killer.
Coupling this with the already present issue of the best processing being tied to freeholds (which I suspect is also going to change), and how the market system is intended to work...it doesn't equate to a good flowing, let alone functioning, market environment.
I mean, in the current conversation it seems pretty evenly split as far as "for" and "against" opinions go. And yes if a majority of players end up not liking it then it should probably get changed. But if most people end up enjoying it, then it should be kept in. I am willing to test it out simply because I like the idea of actually having to do something to process or craft an item. You need to go out and gather the materials yourself if youre a gatherer, so it makes sense to have to do an action to make stuff if all it requires is to have the materials. On top of that it can potentially be a direct limiter for inflation of markets.
Mini games are and will always be a hard no from me. You think you might want it, but believe me you absolutely do not. Luckily it isn't a thing with Ashes.
I don't know, I never really got tired of the fishing mini-game in stardew valley. I think there are some key variables to make 'mini-games' viable in an MMO. It also entirely depends on how/what you define as mini-games I guess. Going to use making ingots as the example here as it seems the most difficult to implement mini-games for reasonably but they can be applied to any crafting skill.
1. The mini-game needs to be proportional to the outcome and feel reasonable. Doing a mini-game to catch a fish makes sense. Doing one to make a single ingot does not. The mini-game itself needs to be visually and thematically related to the task at hand like the sawmill in spiritfarer for example. If you are controlling the heat by adjusting fuel source or something for a few seconds for X number of ingots, that could be fine but it just needs to feel like you are actually smelting and not randomly playing tetris.
2. It needs to have game-play implications outside of just quality/quantity of outcome. If you are playing a mini-game just to determine how 'good' the outcome will be, people will hate it. On one hand it sucks to get a bad outcome and punished for trying to take part in the crafting economy (barrier to entry) and on the other hand it sucks to have to prove you're good at smelting ore when you've done it 100s of times already (forced engagement to be optimal). It is only 'enjoyable' or 'fun' for a very brief window of progression. However, if the mini-game has actual implications on the stats of the ingot, for example if the mini-game allowed you to control how much copper vs tin is in the bronze which then impacts the +str vs the +vitality stats of the ingot for crafting then the mini-game has an actual purpose and the better you are at it, the more control you have over the stat distribution of the outcome. Since the mini-game is no longer just a 'skill check' but has some function, beginners and veterans alike will have reason to engage with it. If this is done well, having the outcome vary with mini-game performance, like getting bonus ingots, is much much more acceptable (and can be more liberally tuned) since it is really a bonus with the main function of the mini-game being the stat distribution changes. This particular example has the added bonus to encourage player engagement in crafting as a sword or armor for sale may not have the best stat distribution for your character which incentivizes you to prepare the ingots yourself and commission a crafter. It also de-values mass production and enhances the value of social connections and commissioned crafting (might make a separate post about this honestly...).
3. Lastly, the mini-games need to have some degree of (optional) automation. Even if points 1 & 2 are followed, if a player has chosen to concentrate on making ingots, they must not go insane. There must be systems in place to automate certain aspects of the process or to apply the same outcome to some large number of actions. This I think is the easiest to solve as gaining in game crafting levels could simply increase the number of ingots the mini-game applies to. Your first 10 bronze ingots you may have to do a mini-game for each one (to learn how it works) but then afterwards each mini-game can be good for 10 ingots, and if you specialize in smelting it would go up-to 100s of ingots. Players who have specialized enough should also be provided the option of hiring an NPC apprentice which can be used to simply bypass any and all mini-games for that skill with the logic of 'you show your apprentice and they will do it as you showed them'. So then players who have invested enough time to 'master' the profession (and money to hire the NPC) can simply input the number and stat distribution of ingots.
Comments
You are explaining this to someone who clearly wants professions to be effortless.
I think OP should just play raid shadow legends, there you have autorun and autoplay ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯
Sadly he/she will be the unwanted but needed middleman/woman for the gathering/farming and crafting toons. I'm hoping that mass production will be possible because no one will want to spend all the extra time making 1 ingot. Well maybe I'll just become the ingot king and sell them at an absurd price since everyone will just sell ore than make ingots.
That’s a Survival Game, so I think it’s not a great fit for an MMORPG…but …
I think some stuff like Smelting shouldn’t need any hands on. Some types of processing shouldn’t need mini-games or constant attention.
I imagine, processing useing a nodes facilities will be more of a "small batch" processing system. where is it more of a constant minigame to finish products, where processing on a free hold it more of a, refill the fire once or twice a day, water plants once or twice a day, harvest a huge number of product like once a week style of chore.
And the potential of allowing others to work on your freehold facilities could mean you just hire other players to do the checkins for you
Replace 'XP' with 'Currency' and I have some bad news for you...
Personally I'd love to be as little afk things to do in-game as possible. I don't want to be forced to leave my computer on, nor do I think people who do/can should be rewarded for wasting electricity/pumping up concurrent player numbers. The more skill-checks and intentional player choices the better imo.
Edit: to clarify, I am not a proponent of requiring constant attention for processing, but for it to be completely passive? Nah.
But processors will be middle men that control the market.
Wood is not used to make ingots. COKE is used which is a byproduct of coal. Making ingots in real life isn't as complex as Steven is proposing for AOC. Making ingots does not require constant babying.
Have you done Alpha-1 testing to confirm this?
If "yes", are you 100% confident it will stay that way through Alpha-2, Beta, and launch?
Is it a good idea to apply real life situations to a fantasy MMORPG (where everything is imaginary)?
I don't know if this a troll post on not but I don't like economies and power getting inflated so easily.
That vision of an "experience" is an alt, how can you find worth when every dedicated/hardcore player will easily be doing the same. Truly baffles me that you find this kind of thing top tier entertainment.
Coke is used now, but back in the day they would collect wood and then it in to charcoal to use in the forge - so Steven was right in that the first step is collecting wood.
You say you put all of the time and effort in collecting ore and you just want to make armor. In many games, collecting the material is one task, and turning that in to an item is another.
In Ashes, there is a middle task as well, and you are basically asking for it to be removed.
Since collecting, processing and crafting are all their own thing in Ashes, each should take roughly as much time as the others. Mini-game is how they are able to accomplish this.
It is also worth keeping in mind, you aren't really supposed to be able to do it all yourself in Ashes - you are supposed to be a part of the economy and buy from others.
Correct, charcoal was used for early iron smelting but not wood. You can't get the forge hot enough by using wood. Blacksmiths did processing in the early era and didn't need a middleman. I'm finding out that making ingots is a mastery itself which is a bit unnecessary. It's going to create a bottleneck.
I don't plan to do it all myself nor would anyone be able to, but gathering and making the mats to make armor and weapons shouldn't be a multi person operation. I've put in tens of thousands of hours into MMOs and this babying thing to get more involved is unnecessary. When I make cookies I have my prep and put them on the baking sheet then in the oven it goes. It doesn't need to be more involved than that. 20 mins of AFK and they are done. Out the oven and set them out and AFK for 2 hours before they are ready to eat. Some things just requires time and that's it, no need to reinvent the wheel.
And even w/o those things, you still need to combine all of that into one thing, in proper ratios, in order to successfully make a cookie. So I feel like this is a bad parallel to draw.
Actually its kind of a perfect parallel, in the fact that he just gets cookie dough at the store. Just like he can just buy his processed mats from other players if he doesnt want to use the involved processing system.
But yes, he can in fact just buy anything at any stage of "cookie making", including the cookie itself.
Definitely less than 1% since unless the user is in charge of/works for a petroleum or natural gas refinery, or an electric power grid, the fuel/power for the baking was not gathered by them either.
As such, if you were to describe the process of making an ingot, you may well start with the sentence "first, you gather up some wood".
You are right in that we should not use wood in either a furnace of forge, however.
My thoughts on this are that I hope Intrepid will add a wood -> charcoal step for making ingots, a process that takes a week.
Mini games are and will always be a hard no from me. You think you might want it, but believe me you absolutely do not. Luckily it isn't a thing with Ashes.
Its actually quite possibly a thing. Just not set in stone. Needs to be tested and then they will continue based off of the testing.
There will be a preparatory phase to provide the building with needed fuel or other materials to process the required grade of materials.[5]
Processing as it stands for Alpha-2's implementation is that there is a certain amount of prep work that's required first for the industry-specific component, which is the building. That prep work might be finding a certain amount of lumber to light the fire in kiln or whatever, to a certain temperature in order for you to process a certain grade of ore; and that grade of ore being malleable then into an ingot; and that produces that ingot so-to-speak. Now, in that process there's a gathering component, there's a preparatory phase, there is a time-related component.[5] – Steven Sharif
There will also be time-related and gameplay elements that require the player to interact with the processing building. These elements act to throttle for the introduction of processed materials from raw gatherables into the economy.[5]
There's also possibilities that the machine you're using itself has some type of gameplay layer- should the kiln get overheated, and you have to throw some water on it or something. There are elements there in that process that we want to mimic this gameplay opportunity for players to interact; and not just be a time-sink. But time-sink is also a component of it as well, because that's the throttle for the introduction of processed materials from raw gatherables into the economy.[5] – Steven Sharif
If this isnt valid feedback I dont know what is. People think they want something because it's a momentary though. It will get boring so quick even for those that defend the concept. Tedious was my word.
Meanwhile there are a couple of threads going on about having weapons visible on the characters as well as proper weapon draw animations. Much less work. Much more important to make people love a videogame.
Lol.
Here's the thing. That most likely won't make it out of testing. We've already had discussions on this kind of thing in the past. Mini games involved with crafting was a massive "No" from the community, and the only people who kept raving about why it should exist were such a minute fraction that it was irrelevant. Steven can say that something won't change because of "X", but testing shows that if people don't like it that it will get changed. This is one of those things that probably won't see the light of launch and that's honestly a good thing. Monotony is not a mechanic, it's a mechanic killer.
Coupling this with the already present issue of the best processing being tied to freeholds (which I suspect is also going to change), and how the market system is intended to work...it doesn't equate to a good flowing, let alone functioning, market environment.
I mean, in the current conversation it seems pretty evenly split as far as "for" and "against" opinions go. And yes if a majority of players end up not liking it then it should probably get changed. But if most people end up enjoying it, then it should be kept in. I am willing to test it out simply because I like the idea of actually having to do something to process or craft an item. You need to go out and gather the materials yourself if youre a gatherer, so it makes sense to have to do an action to make stuff if all it requires is to have the materials. On top of that it can potentially be a direct limiter for inflation of markets.
1. The mini-game needs to be proportional to the outcome and feel reasonable. Doing a mini-game to catch a fish makes sense. Doing one to make a single ingot does not. The mini-game itself needs to be visually and thematically related to the task at hand like the sawmill in spiritfarer for example. If you are controlling the heat by adjusting fuel source or something for a few seconds for X number of ingots, that could be fine but it just needs to feel like you are actually smelting and not randomly playing tetris.
2. It needs to have game-play implications outside of just quality/quantity of outcome. If you are playing a mini-game just to determine how 'good' the outcome will be, people will hate it. On one hand it sucks to get a bad outcome and punished for trying to take part in the crafting economy (barrier to entry) and on the other hand it sucks to have to prove you're good at smelting ore when you've done it 100s of times already (forced engagement to be optimal). It is only 'enjoyable' or 'fun' for a very brief window of progression. However, if the mini-game has actual implications on the stats of the ingot, for example if the mini-game allowed you to control how much copper vs tin is in the bronze which then impacts the +str vs the +vitality stats of the ingot for crafting then the mini-game has an actual purpose and the better you are at it, the more control you have over the stat distribution of the outcome. Since the mini-game is no longer just a 'skill check' but has some function, beginners and veterans alike will have reason to engage with it. If this is done well, having the outcome vary with mini-game performance, like getting bonus ingots, is much much more acceptable (and can be more liberally tuned) since it is really a bonus with the main function of the mini-game being the stat distribution changes. This particular example has the added bonus to encourage player engagement in crafting as a sword or armor for sale may not have the best stat distribution for your character which incentivizes you to prepare the ingots yourself and commission a crafter. It also de-values mass production and enhances the value of social connections and commissioned crafting (might make a separate post about this honestly...).
3. Lastly, the mini-games need to have some degree of (optional) automation. Even if points 1 & 2 are followed, if a player has chosen to concentrate on making ingots, they must not go insane. There must be systems in place to automate certain aspects of the process or to apply the same outcome to some large number of actions. This I think is the easiest to solve as gaining in game crafting levels could simply increase the number of ingots the mini-game applies to. Your first 10 bronze ingots you may have to do a mini-game for each one (to learn how it works) but then afterwards each mini-game can be good for 10 ingots, and if you specialize in smelting it would go up-to 100s of ingots. Players who have specialized enough should also be provided the option of hiring an NPC apprentice which can be used to simply bypass any and all mini-games for that skill with the logic of 'you show your apprentice and they will do it as you showed them'. So then players who have invested enough time to 'master' the profession (and money to hire the NPC) can simply input the number and stat distribution of ingots.
IS will have to choose between a craft time or a clever menu which requires all the material needed or a mix of both.
If that’s the mini-game, add X ingots, add charcoal, add flux, press the hammer button.
Or just constant resource management while crafting, I get it. Not a fan of mini-games, but I get it.