Please make the crafting mini game optional for master crafters

I was a bit disappointed in hearing about mini games for crafting. As a hardcore crafter that's just going to add unnecessary mechanics that I don't want to deal with. I rather have that as an optional mechanic for those that want it or not required for least master rank. AFK processing is way more efficient whenever you're doing large amounts. Those are the times I make my food and eat, take a break and watch TV, work out, do laundry, go work on quests, etc.

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxG8GR_wc6Gn6wtUhnNroQZr681sRZg9Mi

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Nepoke

DrPlague wrote: »

I was a bit disappointed in hearing about mini games for crafting. As a hardcore crafter that's just going to add unnecessary mechanics that I don't want to deal with. I rather have that as an optional mechanic for those that want it or not required for least master rank. AFK processing is way more efficient whenever you're doing large amounts. Those are the times I make my food and eat, take a break and watch TV, work out, do laundry, go work on quests, etc.

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxG8GR_wc6Gn6wtUhnNroQZr681sRZg9Mi

I'm going to have to agree with Noaani here.This kind of logic sounds absurd when applied universally. Why is being AFK for crafting okay? Players can't AFK mobs, bosses or PvP. If someone feels compelled to AFK during an activity, that's a problem with the activity not being fun, and the focus should be on improving said activity, not making it automatic.

The example overheating mechanic sounded like a pretty good part of a production "minigame". If a player is needed to craft 1000 stone bricks, then there shouldn't be a minigame for each individual brick, but rather some set of activities to maintain the process at an optimal state. Simple mass production tasks could have simple, less involved processes, but single high value operations like making a bar of omegapowerium could be a very involved process where everything has to be just right.

Crafting not being gameplay is just a carry over from old MMOs, where crafting systems were barely crafting or systems.

PenguinPaladin

Wanting to be productive while afk is like.... i mean... you read your own post right?

I want the game to make progress for me while im doing nothing ...? Um... i'd rather it didnt. I would like to play the game while im playing the game.

Make a sandwich while you hangout in the taverns or something.

And as well, if the minigames just maintain optimal speed of the process, and dont halt it except for maybe a check point here and there. Then perhaps you can afk to an extent, and produce unoptimally.

Happymeal2415

I agree with noanni on this one as well. I don't understand why crafting should just be a simulator. I would love for mini game esque things to be played. And like nepoke suggested that mass production could be more of a game keeping the production line going instead of cutting each brick individually. I think when it comes to making legendary sword of owning bitches it should probably have a lot of complex steps involved. Similar to the difference between fighting no name mob vs fighting big raid boss.

PenguinPaladin

Maybe we even focus back on the risk reward aspect, and say if you mess up your minigame to keep the process running you start destroying mats.....

ashesplayer123

I watched the clip and he specifically talks about processing, not crafting. The two are not the same, as you can see in the below picture.

I think processing should require some sort of occasional player input to counter AFKing players (to me it sounds like that's what Steven is talking about in the video, not actively pressing buttons. he is talking about performing an action if an an equipment is overheating and such), I disagree with the sentiment of "I want the game to perform actions for me while I'm not even at my PC doing other stuff", like sorry but that's just so bad. what you are suggesting is you want to perform actions in the game while not even being there. not having some sort of player check would not only reduce the worth of items, but would also make it easier to utilize bots to create large bulks of items.
that being said I specifically talked about processing, because gathering does not necessarily require an input. you walking up to a tree and cutting it is already an input in itself, and you also spend time running around looking for gatherables (fishing and taming feels like an exception here).

On the other hand I'd like it if (gear) crafting would have it's own opt-in minigame, and let's say the better you do at said minigame the higher stats you roll on your gear, or maybe the higher durability you get, or maybe it would require less materials to repair that item, etc.
so the mini-game wouldn't be something that you feel incentivized to perform every single time (to counter making it boring), you'd opt-in to perform it only on a gear piece that you actually want to use or sell (let's say you craft a piece you don't want to use, but you can sell it for good money so it's worth it to maximize the value), or if you want to practice before an important craft.

I'd love it if professions were not only useful, but also required more effort than just getting the materials.
It would be nice if artisanship wasn't just a byproduct of the genre, almost like an unwanted child, like in most other MMORPGs...

Theplague4u

Happymeal2415 wrote: »

I agree with noanni on this one as well. I don't understand why crafting should just be a simulator. I would love for mini game esque things to be played. And like nepoke suggested that mass production could be more of a game keeping the production line going instead of cutting each brick individually. I think when it comes to making legendary sword of owning bitches it should probably have a lot of complex steps involved. Similar to the difference between fighting no name mob vs fighting big raid boss.

Exactly, why is there so much more involved in making minor things like ingots? I already spend the time to gather mats and pvp to keep or take it. My end goal is to be an armorer and maybe weapon maker also if possible.

**Example of something different but same logic**
After killing mobs for 1 hr you're not required to process your kills for XP and I feel doing all the extra work to process mats is no different than adding another step to mob grinding for XP. Everything drops 1 token which you have to take to a certificate of death printer which you have to stay there to fill with paper and add toner when getting low. Then you take all your certs to trade in for XP. But be cautious out there because you can loose some of those XP tokens if killed.

Happymeal2415

DrPlague wrote: »

Happymeal2415 wrote: »

I agree with noanni on this one as well. I don't understand why crafting should just be a simulator. I would love for mini game esque things to be played. And like nepoke suggested that mass production could be more of a game keeping the production line going instead of cutting each brick individually. I think when it comes to making legendary sword of owning bitches it should probably have a lot of complex steps involved. Similar to the difference between fighting no name mob vs fighting big raid boss.

Exactly, why is there so much more involved in making minor things like ingots? I already spend the time to gather mats and pvp to keep or take it. My end goal is to be an armorer and maybe weapon maker also if possible.

But you most likely won't be getting the materials in ashes. You will be mastering only one profession branch. Unless you want to be a jack of all trades and only work with the basics. So your line of thinking doesn't really work. If you want to master making armor you won't be getting the materials or making the ingots (again other than the basics) so it makes sense to have each profession line have to perform some sort of task

Theplague4u

Norkore wrote: »

I watched the clip and he specifically talks about processing, not crafting. The two are not the same, as you can see in the below picture.

I think processing should require some sort of occasional player input to counter AFKing players (to me it sounds like that's what Steven is talking about in the video, not actively pressing buttons. he is talking about performing an action if an an equipment is overheating and such), I disagree with the sentiment of "I want the game to perform actions for me while I'm not even at my PC doing other stuff", like sorry but that's just so bad. what you are suggesting is you want to perform actions in the game while not even being there. not having some sort of player check would not only reduce the worth of items, but would also make it easier to utilize bots to create large bulks of items.
that being said I specifically talked about processing, because gathering does not necessarily require an input. you walking up to a tree and cutting it is already an input in itself, and you also spend time running around looking for gatherables (fishing and taming feels like an exception here).

On the other hand I'd like it if (gear) crafting would have it's own opt-in minigame, and let's say the better you do at said minigame the higher stats you roll on your gear, or maybe the higher durability you get, or maybe it would require less materials to repair that item, etc.
so the mini-game wouldn't be something that you feel incentivized to perform every single time (to counter making it boring), you'd opt-in to perform it only on a gear piece that you actually want to use or sell (let's say you craft a piece you don't want to use, but you can sell it for good money so it's worth it to maximize the value), or if you want to practice before an important craft.

I'd love it if professions were not only useful, but also required more effort than just getting the materials.
It would be nice if artisanship wasn't just a byproduct of the genre, almost like an unwanted child, like in most other MMORPGs...

Do you need items from processing to craft? Nuff said.

Theplague4u

Happymeal2415 wrote: »

DrPlague wrote: »

Happymeal2415 wrote: »

I agree with noanni on this one as well. I don't understand why crafting should just be a simulator. I would love for mini game esque things to be played. And like nepoke suggested that mass production could be more of a game keeping the production line going instead of cutting each brick individually. I think when it comes to making legendary sword of owning bitches it should probably have a lot of complex steps involved. Similar to the difference between fighting no name mob vs fighting big raid boss.

Exactly, why is there so much more involved in making minor things like ingots? I already spend the time to gather mats and pvp to keep or take it. My end goal is to be an armorer and maybe weapon maker also if possible.

But you most likely won't be getting the materials in ashes. You will be mastering only one profession branch. Unless you want to be a jack of all trades and only work with the basics. So your line of thinking doesn't really work. If you want to master making armor you won't be getting the materials or making the ingots (again other than the basics) so it makes sense to have each profession line have to perform some sort of task

You can have more than one character and from what I understand master is not locked per account by per character. 3 characters, one for gathering, one for processing, and one for crafting. Whatever I can master from those 3 is all I'll be making. If I'm required to have 3 accounts then so be it, 3 accounts I will have.

PenguinPaladin

DrPlague wrote: »

Happymeal2415 wrote: »

DrPlague wrote: »

Happymeal2415 wrote: »

I agree with noanni on this one as well. I don't understand why crafting should just be a simulator. I would love for mini game esque things to be played. And like nepoke suggested that mass production could be more of a game keeping the production line going instead of cutting each brick individually. I think when it comes to making legendary sword of owning bitches it should probably have a lot of complex steps involved. Similar to the difference between fighting no name mob vs fighting big raid boss.

Exactly, why is there so much more involved in making minor things like ingots? I already spend the time to gather mats and pvp to keep or take it. My end goal is to be an armorer and maybe weapon maker also if possible.

But you most likely won't be getting the materials in ashes. You will be mastering only one profession branch. Unless you want to be a jack of all trades and only work with the basics. So your line of thinking doesn't really work. If you want to master making armor you won't be getting the materials or making the ingots (again other than the basics) so it makes sense to have each profession line have to perform some sort of task

You can have more than one character and from what I understand master is not locked per account by per character. 3 characters, one for gathering, one for processing, and one for crafting. Whatever I can master from those 3 is all I'll be making. If I'm required to have 3 accounts then so be it, 3 accounts I will have.

"I want to have 3 characters so i can manage to do everything myself, but one of them shouldnt have to play the game, he should just exist so my other 2 can gather/craft together"

ashesplayer123

Happymeal2415 wrote: »

DrPlague wrote: »

Happymeal2415 wrote: »

I agree with noanni on this one as well. I don't understand why crafting should just be a simulator. I would love for mini game esque things to be played. And like nepoke suggested that mass production could be more of a game keeping the production line going instead of cutting each brick individually. I think when it comes to making legendary sword of owning bitches it should probably have a lot of complex steps involved. Similar to the difference between fighting no name mob vs fighting big raid boss.

Exactly, why is there so much more involved in making minor things like ingots? I already spend the time to gather mats and pvp to keep or take it. My end goal is to be an armorer and maybe weapon maker also if possible.

But you most likely won't be getting the materials in ashes. You will be mastering only one profession branch. Unless you want to be a jack of all trades and only work with the basics. So your line of thinking doesn't really work. If you want to master making armor you won't be getting the materials or making the ingots (again other than the basics) so it makes sense to have each profession line have to perform some sort of task

You are explaining this to someone who clearly wants professions to be effortless.
I think OP should just play raid shadow legends, there you have autorun and autoplay ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯

Theplague4u

PenguinPaladin wrote: »

DrPlague wrote: »

Happymeal2415 wrote: »

DrPlague wrote: »

Happymeal2415 wrote: »

I agree with noanni on this one as well. I don't understand why crafting should just be a simulator. I would love for mini game esque things to be played. And like nepoke suggested that mass production could be more of a game keeping the production line going instead of cutting each brick individually. I think when it comes to making legendary sword of owning bitches it should probably have a lot of complex steps involved. Similar to the difference between fighting no name mob vs fighting big raid boss.

Exactly, why is there so much more involved in making minor things like ingots? I already spend the time to gather mats and pvp to keep or take it. My end goal is to be an armorer and maybe weapon maker also if possible.

But you most likely won't be getting the materials in ashes. You will be mastering only one profession branch. Unless you want to be a jack of all trades and only work with the basics. So your line of thinking doesn't really work. If you want to master making armor you won't be getting the materials or making the ingots (again other than the basics) so it makes sense to have each profession line have to perform some sort of task

You can have more than one character and from what I understand master is not locked per account by per character. 3 characters, one for gathering, one for processing, and one for crafting. Whatever I can master from those 3 is all I'll be making. If I'm required to have 3 accounts then so be it, 3 accounts I will have.

"I want to have 3 characters so i can manage to do everything myself, but one of them shouldnt have to play the game, he should just exist so my other 2 can gather/craft together"

Sadly he/she will be the unwanted but needed middleman/woman for the gathering/farming and crafting toons. I'm hoping that mass production will be possible because no one will want to spend all the extra time making 1 ingot. Well maybe I'll just become the ingot king and sell them at an absurd price since everyone will just sell ore than make ingots.

Dygz

I love the Crafting in Valheim.
That’s a Survival Game, so I think it’s not a great fit for an MMORPG…but …

I think some stuff like Smelting shouldn’t need any hands on. Some types of processing shouldn’t need mini-games or constant attention.

PenguinPaladin

I dont see processing as a "constant attention" kind of mini game either. I see it as a check in style mini game.

I imagine, processing useing a nodes facilities will be more of a "small batch" processing system. where is it more of a constant minigame to finish products, where processing on a free hold it more of a, refill the fire once or twice a day, water plants once or twice a day, harvest a huge number of product like once a week style of chore.

And the potential of allowing others to work on your freehold facilities could mean you just hire other players to do the checkins for you

PenguinPaladin

How ashes artisan roles are laid out. With the games risk/reward focus. It does go to say processing should not be just a middle step in the process. Processors should have to do something from time to time, that does matter for their outcome of materials. And failing to do so should have a negative outcome, be it loss of some ingredients or whatever may be. I still dont support, my character progressing while im just standing around, at any point. If the game as a whole is trying to give each person purpose behind how they want to play, processors should not just be middle men that control the pace of the economy

Azherae

DrPlague wrote: »

Happymeal2415 wrote: »

I agree with noanni on this one as well. I don't understand why crafting should just be a simulator. I would love for mini game esque things to be played. And like nepoke suggested that mass production could be more of a game keeping the production line going instead of cutting each brick individually. I think when it comes to making legendary sword of owning bitches it should probably have a lot of complex steps involved. Similar to the difference between fighting no name mob vs fighting big raid boss.

Exactly, why is there so much more involved in making minor things like ingots? I already spend the time to gather mats and pvp to keep or take it. My end goal is to be an armorer and maybe weapon maker also if possible.

**Example of something different but same logic**
After killing mobs for 1 hr you're not required to process your kills for XP and I feel doing all the extra work to process mats is no different than adding another step to mob grinding for XP. Everything drops 1 token which you have to take to a certificate of death printer which you have to stay there to fill with paper and add toner when getting low. Then you take all your certs to trade in for XP. But be cautious out there because you can loose some of those XP tokens if killed.

Replace 'XP' with 'Currency' and I have some bad news for you...

neuroguy

So you call yourself a hardcore crafter, are outraged that there isn't afk processing and wish to gather all of your own mats? In the game that has inter-connectivity baked into every mechanic you wish to be a one man factory? I'm sincerely confused as to what you hope your gameplay loop to be in terms of the actual crafting. Or are you more into the idea of getting all of the pieces together and want to be rewarded by just auto-generating (crafting) items as a result?

Personally I'd love to be as little afk things to do in-game as possible. I don't want to be forced to leave my computer on, nor do I think people who do/can should be rewarded for wasting electricity/pumping up concurrent player numbers. The more skill-checks and intentional player choices the better imo.

Edit: to clarify, I am not a proponent of requiring constant attention for processing, but for it to be completely passive? Nah.

Theplague4u

PenguinPaladin wrote: »

How ashes artisan roles are laid out. With the games risk/reward focus. It does go to say processing should not be just a middle step in the process. Processors should have to do something from time to time, that does matter for their outcome of materials. And failing to do so should have a negative outcome, be it loss of some ingredients or whatever may be. I still dont support, my character progressing while im just standing around, at any point. If the game as a whole is trying to give each person purpose behind how they want to play, processors should not just be middle men that control the pace of the economy

But processors will be middle men that control the market.

Theplague4u

FYI STEVEN.

Wood is not used to make ingots. COKE is used which is a byproduct of coal. Making ingots in real life isn't as complex as Steven is proposing for AOC. Making ingots does not require constant babying.

Taleof2Cities

DrPlague wrote: »

But processors will be middle men that control the market.

Have you done Alpha-1 testing to confirm this?

If "yes", are you 100% confident it will stay that way through Alpha-2, Beta, and launch?

DrPlague wrote: »

Wood is not used to make ingots. COKE is used which is a byproduct of coal. Making ingots in real life isn't as complex as Steven is proposing for AOC.

Is it a good idea to apply real life situations to a fantasy MMORPG (where everything is imaginary)?

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