Except arrows can't' be looted from monsters in the wild in AoC. Youd don't get items or materials directly from monsters. You get essentially a proof of kill which in turn you trade in town for items. No wolves carrying boots and gold coins in Verra.
But that's the point. Ohmi suggested a shitty design and immediately suggested a fix for said shitty design
It's not a great fix. You can loot arrows if...
- You're not in a Siege where you don't have time to do so safely.
- You're not defending a caravan that's continuing to move along as you fight, leaving the corpses far behind by the time you can safely loot them.
- You're not in a raid with relatively fewer adds to loot from.
- You don't get unlucky with your loot quantity over time and gain less than you spend.
In these or many other possible cases, you have to pay money to use your basic attack.
Thing is. Ashes isn't a pure ability-spam game. Your basic attack matters. If you just spam abilities you're going to run out of MP/stamina. You have to use your basic attack to be fully effective. So in the end, it all still comes down to "you have to pay money to play your class". And sure, everyone else has to repair their weapons too. But are bows just not going to ever need repair? That goes against core requirements of the intended economic design. Bows need an item sink for the same reason greatswords do. Paying for arrows is just extra.
You must not have played EQ or Asherons call. Arrows were easy and cheap to craft and magicians can summons arrows back. Don't see why not have a siege summons arrows you shot or missed back at you? A simple in combat hotkey to craft and restock in a fight with a cooldown counter like abilities. In asheron archery learn to create so much inventory space that they rarely run out of arrows in raid or anything
So you should need ammunition. But you should be able to craft it in battle. And it shouldn't have a meaningful cost. And you should be able to normally never run out.
Forgive me, but... why?
Crafting is a thing in MMOs. Many people love to craft. A game with 12 (and counting) classes decided to make ONE class that included crafting as part of the class gameplay.
you are consuming resources you spent effort gathering/buying. That expenditure is part of a very addictive equation; spending time and consuming the results in gambling on success. You are also utilizing the crafting and economy systems which presumably provide their own more dopamine centered fun.
The "fun" of making a mistake doesn't happen during the occurrence or the immediate consequences, I admit. Rather it happens before, being scared of making it, and after, the pride at preventing it.
Also helps you to decide and prepare before engaging in fights. If you want to spend more on arrows and have more space taken up or if you want to stick behind your teams and use your archery skills relying on cooldowns then craft some normals arrows in fight while your teammates back you
Except arrows can't' be looted from monsters in the wild in AoC. Youd don't get items or materials directly from monsters. You get essentially a proof of kill which in turn you trade in town for items. No wolves carrying boots and gold coins in Verra.
But that's the point. Ohmi suggested a shitty design and immediately suggested a fix for said shitty design
It's not a great fix. You can loot arrows if...
- You're not in a Siege where you don't have time to do so safely.
- You're not defending a caravan that's continuing to move along as you fight, leaving the corpses far behind by the time you can safely loot them.
- You're not in a raid with relatively fewer adds to loot from.
- You don't get unlucky with your loot quantity over time and gain less than you spend.
In these or many other possible cases, you have to pay money to use your basic attack.
Thing is. Ashes isn't a pure ability-spam game. Your basic attack matters. If you just spam abilities you're going to run out of MP/stamina. You have to use your basic attack to be fully effective. So in the end, it all still comes down to "you have to pay money to play your class". And sure, everyone else has to repair their weapons too. But are bows just not going to ever need repair? That goes against core requirements of the intended economic design. Bows need an item sink for the same reason greatswords do. Paying for arrows is just extra.
You must not have played EQ or Asherons call. Arrows were easy and cheap to craft and magicians can summons arrows back. Don't see why not have a siege summons arrows you shot or missed back at you? A simple in combat hotkey to craft and restock in a fight with a cooldown counter like abilities. In asheron archery learn to create so much inventory space that they rarely run out of arrows in raid or anything
So you should need ammunition. But you should be able to craft it in battle. And it shouldn't have a meaningful cost. And you should be able to normally never run out.
Forgive me, but... why?
Crafting is a thing in MMOs. Many people love to craft. A game with 12 (and counting) classes decided to make ONE class that included crafting as part of the class gameplay.
you are consuming resources you spent effort gathering/buying. That expenditure is part of a very addictive equation; spending time and consuming the results in gambling on success. You are also utilizing the crafting and economy systems which presumably provide their own more dopamine centered fun.
The "fun" of making a mistake doesn't happen during the occurrence or the immediate consequences, I admit. Rather it happens before, being scared of making it, and after, the pride at preventing it.
Also helps you to decide and prepare before engaging in fights. If you want to spend more on arrows and have more space taken up or if you want to stick behind your teams and use your archery skills relying on cooldowns then craft some normals arrows in fight while your teammates back you
You are thinking this is a bigger deal then it is, it really isn't it is just annoying for players. There will be tons of things in game to craft, forcing people to craft arrows doesn't create a dopamine centered fun it is just annoying if it is done int he way of a arrow being a consumable rather than a offhand weapon.
No people aren't going to be thinking deeply about how many arrows to bring they will be thinking this is a huge waste of money I should just reoll to another class like mage with allt he gold they are spending from all the pvp and gaining nothing. As deep as it will go is you will bring as many arrows as you can hold so you don't have to worry about it for awhile and exactly what i did in new world.
What you are explaining is not fun, this isn't a survival game it is designed differently. Al you are effectively doing his handicapping a class for no legitimate reason. If a class is getting gimped they need an advantage to out way that, it was the same foolish thinking they had in new world. That is way in new world they scaled it back in some modes not consuming any of your arrows / ammo.
So technically even new world doesn't even agree with you.
No I don't think throwing the Ranged Weapon Class into the unique situation to have to spend to power their attacks in any way; that said, I would like class-specific items that function not unlike Borderlands Class Mods as pieces of the Inventory like Trinkets or Rings. For Rangers a Quiver could function as a Class Mod, and perhaps there could be varying sources of Magical Arrows which alter your attacks in minor ways. Drops from Bosses, Quest Rewards, Craftable Items on par with an offhand weapon, placed within the Quiver on the Character. Other Classes could have similar things, like an Arcane Focus for Mages, Holy Idol for Clerics, Fetishes or Offering Bundles for Summoners, tool kits or bags of tricks for Rogues, maybe Emblems or Medals for Tanks, Instruments or Quills for Bards, perhaps. I think Class-Specific Gear is based but making that gear a finite resource that costs money to upkeep is not pleasant. Customization is cool though, and additional pieces of gear with specific class meaning is a great thing.
Comments
Crafting is a thing in MMOs. Many people love to craft. A game with 12 (and counting) classes decided to make ONE class that included crafting as part of the class gameplay.
you are consuming resources you spent effort gathering/buying. That expenditure is part of a very addictive equation; spending time and consuming the results in gambling on success. You are also utilizing the crafting and economy systems which presumably provide their own more dopamine centered fun.
The "fun" of making a mistake doesn't happen during the occurrence or the immediate consequences, I admit. Rather it happens before, being scared of making it, and after, the pride at preventing it.
Also helps you to decide and prepare before engaging in fights. If you want to spend more on arrows and have more space taken up or if you want to stick behind your teams and use your archery skills relying on cooldowns then craft some normals arrows in fight while your teammates back you
You are thinking this is a bigger deal then it is, it really isn't it is just annoying for players. There will be tons of things in game to craft, forcing people to craft arrows doesn't create a dopamine centered fun it is just annoying if it is done int he way of a arrow being a consumable rather than a offhand weapon.
No people aren't going to be thinking deeply about how many arrows to bring they will be thinking this is a huge waste of money I should just reoll to another class like mage with allt he gold they are spending from all the pvp and gaining nothing. As deep as it will go is you will bring as many arrows as you can hold so you don't have to worry about it for awhile and exactly what i did in new world.
What you are explaining is not fun, this isn't a survival game it is designed differently. Al you are effectively doing his handicapping a class for no legitimate reason. If a class is getting gimped they need an advantage to out way that, it was the same foolish thinking they had in new world. That is way in new world they scaled it back in some modes not consuming any of your arrows / ammo.
So technically even new world doesn't even agree with you.